Interesting counterpoint on the ATS

[hotrodalex]

Just because someone isn't a car enthusiast doesn't mean they can't recognize the great driving dynamics of a 3 series.

[LonghornTX]

I think it is pretty clear that the V model will get a V8 of some type. Seeing as the ATS is a direct A4/3/C competitor, the V model will be a direct competitor to the M/AMG versions. GM doesn't have a powerful enough FI V6 to compete in the ~450hp range that those models will be at (unless they develop a new one) and will need an LS_ under the hood to be class competitive. I wouldn't be surprised to see the new smaller displacement LS from the C7 in there.

[CJ]

The BMW name is still not on the same plane as the Mercedes name, yet the 3 series trounces the C. 

The BMW trounces the C-Class in driving dynamics, but I think the Mercedes looks better and has a nicer interior.  I really don't like BMW interiors.

[Madman]

Amazing how everyone here has already passed judgement on a car nobody (outside of GM's R&D department) has driven yet! 

[sportyaccordy]

Sporty must not realize there's going to be multiple suspensions and packages available for the ATS.  If someone doesn't want a canyon carver, they can skip the sport suspension, if someone wants a canyon carver, they can have the sport suspension + LSD.

Again. Tell me why anyone should buy this instead of a 3er.

[hotrodalex]

Again. Tell me why anyone should buy this instead of a 3er.

They like how it looks? They like the interior better? Why do you buy an Altima over and Accord? People have different preferences.

[TurboDan]

Again. Tell me why anyone should buy this instead of a 3er.

Nobody can tell you that until they drive one. At the same time, nobody can tell you why they'd buy a 3er over an ATS until they drive one.

[Rupert]

Take Rupert for example; like you he also used to cut on my old Accord, and then of course I had no choice but to remind him said was a better performer car than his Porsche. He understood, acquiesced, and am proud to say he got on with improved Internetry. You did not unfortunately and then had the lulz audacity to also cut on my G37 when your Mustangism went poorly as usual. I hold the same hope for you, though you're obviously a much harder case than Rupert.

Dude, your Accord arguments never won a thing with anyone.

[850CSi]

Just because someone isn't a car enthusiast doesn't mean they can't recognize the great driving dynamics of a 3 series.

That statement is not inconsistent with "the overwhelming majority can't and don't care"

[Raza]

The BMW trounces the C-Class in driving dynamics, but I think the Mercedes looks better and has a nicer interior.  I really don't like BMW interiors.

I meant in sales.

My brother had this discussion the other day.  He said that Mercedes isn't trying to compete with the 3 series because not everyone wants the sportier 3, they might want the more relaxed C.  I said clearly the class enjoys that, since the 3 isn't a niche car, it's the best seller in its class. 

The C class does look better, but I don't think the C's interior is better. 

[Raza]

Dude, your Accord arguments never won a thing with anyone.

Since I'm replacing the Jetta with a sports car, I'm seriously considering an Accord V6. 

[Raza]

That statement is not inconsistent with "the overwhelming majority can't and don't care"

Like I said, people very often like the way a car drives, handles, and feeds back, but can't verbalize it in a meaningful way to enthusiasts. 

Think of it this way.  I know a good cup of coffee from a bad cup of coffee.  I couldn't explain to you the difference. 

[sportyaccordy]

Is a base 3 really that much better than the competition dynamically though

And if people like how the 3 drives, why don't cars like the Mazda3 outsell the Corolla

I think its the badge/name/brand, which Cadillac cannot match, despite having truckloads of H&H?. And if the 3's appeal is some unexplained nuanced thing, how probable is it that Cadillac will not only be able to replicate it, but have MORE of that je ne sais quoi (which is what it would take for it to even begin to approach the 3 in sales)

[GoCougs]

Dude, your Accord arguments never won a thing with anyone.

Ha!

[SVT666]

Is a base 3 really that much better than the competition dynamically though

Yes.

[MexicoCityM3]

Since I'm replacing the Jetta with a sports car, I'm seriously considering an Accord V6. 

Good choice, more than enough. But if you want something truly fantastic, look no further than a G37. Even better with AWD that adds a lot of safety & fun even in slight rain.

[SVT666]

Good choice, more than enough. But if you want something truly fantastic, look no further than a G37. Even better with AWD that adds a lot of safety & fun even in slight rain.

Your sarcasm detector is broken.  He would never buy an Accord.

[Rich]

Your sarcasm detector is broken.  He would never buy an Accord.

How coincidental.  Yours is broken too

[Eye of the Tiger]

How coincidental.  Yours is broken too

Ah ha! But isn't it your sarcasm detector that has been broken all along?

[Raza]

And if people like how the 3 drives, why don't cars like the Mazda3 outsell the Corolla

You're smarter than that.  It's a different--and not comparable--market.

[GoCougs]

GoCougsSPIN.

[68_427]

I think it is pretty clear that the V model will get a V8 of some type. Seeing as the ATS is a direct A4/3/C competitor, the V model will be a direct competitor to the M/AMG versions. GM doesn't have a powerful enough FI V6 to compete in the ~450hp range that those models will be at (unless they develop a new one) and will need an LS_ under the hood to be class competitive. I wouldn't be surprised to see the new smaller displacement LS from the C7 in there.

Been confirmed it'll be a FI V6.  GM has two in development right now.

[Vinsanity]

Been confirmed it'll be a FI V6.  GM has two in development right now.

WTF GM. You already have a V8 going into the next Camaro which is going to be on the same platform, so why not use that for the ATS-V...unless...no...please don't tell me...

[68_427]

I'd rather it had a V8 too.

[nickdrinkwater]

Is a base 3 really that much better than the competition dynamically though

And if people like how the 3 drives, why don't cars like the Mazda3 outsell the Corolla

I think its the badge/name/brand, which Cadillac cannot match, despite having truckloads of H&H?. And if the 3's appeal is some unexplained nuanced thing, how probable is it that Cadillac will not only be able to replicate it, but have MORE of that je ne sais quoi (which is what it would take for it to even begin to approach the 3 in sales)

The 3 is probably better but I doubt it makes a difference to the 99.99% of drivers who don't drive it to anywhere near its limits.  However that doesn't mean people buy it for that reason anyway because they want to drive "the Ultimate Driving Machine" regardless of whether they exploit these characteristics... Marketing.

[sportyaccordy]

If a car has good dynamics, you don't have to thrash it to feel it.

My point is, for the 30th time (no offense nickdrinkwater), for the ATS to succeed, it can't be a Caddilac 3 series in damn near every aspect (engines, dynamics, PRICE), esp when you consider most of its competitors are due for major overhauls within the next 2-3 years. I mean the next IS will be based on the FT-86... that alone could be a paradigm shift. Caddy benchmarked the E46, but some folks are calling the F30 the best 3 series of all time. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I really think GM blew it. This would have been a winning strategy 10, 15 years ago.

[TurboDan]

The 3 is probably better but I doubt it makes a difference to the 99.99% of drivers who don't drive it to anywhere near its limits.  However that doesn't mean people buy it for that reason anyway because they want to drive "the Ultimate Driving Machine" regardless of whether they exploit these characteristics... Marketing.

Oh, please. It's not "marketing."

I got in an E90 3er last fall with zero preconceived notions whatsoever while I was looking for a new vehicle. The second I started driving it, it was a magical experience. There is simply no better car in its class than the 3er, period. BMW makes damn, damn, damn good cars ... end of story.

If I did not own a boat I had to occasionally haul, and a business that occasionally required offroad capability, I would be in that 3er today. Period.

And believe me, if Caddy can match or beat it, I'll be the first one to buy one! As an American, I WANT Caddy to succeed and be respected among the younger generation of buyers like myself in their 20s!

[GoCougs]

The 3 is probably better but I doubt it makes a difference to the 99.99% of drivers who don't drive it to anywhere near its limits.  However that doesn't mean people buy it for that reason anyway because they want to drive "the Ultimate Driving Machine" regardless of whether they exploit these characteristics... Marketing.

Yup. Lesser 3ers (which most are) are a popular girls car.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

And believe me, if Caddy can match or beat it, I'll be the first one to buy one! As an American, I WANT Caddy to succeed and be respected among the younger generation of buyers like myself in their 20s!

+1,000,000!!!

[LonghornTX]

Been confirmed it'll be a FI V6.  GM has two in development right now.

I hadn't heard or seen that...link(s)?