I feel like Wimmer reading people's comments on the BRFS

[Onslaught]

hay body guy, make your own..?

Too much of a pain in the ass. But don't think I've never thought about it.

[sportyaccordy]

I guarantee people will find something to complain about with this one.

"A turbo costs $500, a supercharger costs $1000, I can get coilovers for $500 on Ebay and my buddy Harry can weld me up a roll cage with some old plumbing pipe. Why the hell is it $30K more than a regular BRZF?"

"$62K? For that money I could get a GT500...650 HP. Or two Mustang GTs... EIGHT HUNDRED HP."

"ONLY 315HP? With a turbocharger AND a supercharger?"

Etc. etc.

[S204STi]

I dig your preemptive strike against any sort of criticism of your favorite car.  What a fucking prick.

[Xer0]

No one of this board is at the level of troll/stupidity/general all around asshole as the people that would make jabs like that at a car they don?t like (plus have never driven).  This thread will lead to nothing but bitching and complaining about posters that aren?t even on this board.  It?s pretty dumb.  Instead, lets make this a thread about something productive.

[CALL_911]

I'm sorry Sporty, but the only thing you're proving here is that you're fucking dumb (at least in this case).

When you have masses of people aggregating to discuss any one thing, the majority are going to be fucking dumb. Life 101.

[sportyaccordy]

You want to talk about strawmen, lol. This is nowhere near my favorite car. I like what its about, but if it was my 30K I would prob go with a 128i or something used. Its just incredible how certain folks are that the car sucks, w/o even having seen it in person, let alone having driven it, let alone having owned it, despite all the folks who have driven it loving it, and all the great cars that were similarly criminally underpowered. If laughing at the obvious makes me a "prick", so be it, but to me the "pricks" seem more to be the guys who completely write a car off because its not a good bench racer

[S204STi]

Who the fuck here ever said the car sucks?  Christ, check your vision dude.

[S204STi]

No one of this board is at the level of troll/stupidity/general all around asshole as the people that would make jabs like that at a car they don?t like (plus have never driven).  This thread will lead to nothing but bitching and complaining about posters that aren?t even on this board.  It?s pretty dumb.  Instead, lets make this a thread about something productive.

This. 

[r0tor]

bleh, i have a (going on) 9 year old car that can match the BRFS dynamically while having more power and usable backseats... and it didn't cost much more then these things do.  I fail to see the revolution or hooplah honestly.... but whatever floats peoples boats is fine for them

[Northlands]

Well, the fact that Toyota has brought everyone something sporty to drive has gotta say something. 

[SVT666]

bleh, i have a (going on) 9 year old car that can match the BRFS dynamically while having more power and usable backseats... and it didn't cost much more then these things do.  I fail to see the revolution or hooplah honestly.... but whatever floats peoples boats is fine for them

The hoopla is because the only one other car on the market that prescribes to the BRZ/FR-S formula of lightweight excitement at a low price is the Miata.It's not a revolution and nobody is claiming that it is.  It is however somewhat unique.  Also, your RX-8 cost a little more than a BRZ, but that was 9 years ago.  9 years ago a Mustang GT could be had for BRZ money.  Not anymore.  So, a low price is pretty special too.  The low power isn't though, and I think the STi version with 250 hp is what the BRZ should have been, but that doesn't seem to be hurting the car at the dealer lots and that's what matters.

[Onslaught]

Why are people fighting about this? Why are we mad that a light weight sports car is out that any of us can afford? If you ask me it's a great thing.

[Rich]

bleh, i have a (going on) 9 year old car that can match the BRFS dynamically while having more power and usable backseats... and it didn't cost much more then these things do.  I fail to see the revolution or hooplah honestly.... but whatever floats peoples boats is fine for them

BRZZZ also gets better highway mileage. 

[280Z Turbo]

Yeah, I'd have an RX-8 if the gas mileage wasn't so bad and the motor had a longer life.

[Raza]

RX-8s are great, but that engine is a worry. 

[Onslaught]

In a few years I'll be giving my report on the 09 up RX-8 and any problems that it's given me. I'd tell you how the first 3 1/2 years have been but I don't want to jinx myself.

[Raza]

In a few years I'll be giving my report on the 09 up RX-8 and any problems that it's given me. I'd tell you how the first 3 1/2 years have been but I don't want to jinx myself.

I used to drive 106 miles a day.  I'd have been filling up three or four times a week in an RX-8!

[r0tor]

The hoopla is because the only one other car on the market that prescribes to the BRZ/FR-S formula of lightweight excitement at a low price is the Miata.It's not a revolution and nobody is claiming that it is.  It is however somewhat unique.  Also, your RX-8 cost a little more than a BRZ, but that was 9 years ago.  9 years ago a Mustang GT could be had for BRZ money.  Not anymore.  So, a low price is pretty special too.  The low power isn't though, and I think the STi version with 250 hp is what the BRZ should have been, but that doesn't seem to be hurting the car at the dealer lots and that's what matters.

The 8 really didn't move in sticker price until the day they stopped selling it.  Factor in rebates and discounts and people were buying fully equipped models right around the $30k mark which is pretty close to a loaded BRZ

[sportyaccordy]

The 8 really didn't move in sticker price until the day they stopped selling it.  Factor in rebates and discounts and people were buying fully equipped models right around the $30k mark which is pretty close to a loaded BRZ

When did they stop selling it? $30K today <<<< $30K even 2 years ago. Its more car, so it makes sense that its more expensive. I don't think the two are comparable in features/value, esp when you factor in running costs.

Why are people fighting about this? Why are we mad that a light weight sports car is out that any of us can afford? If you ask me it's a great thing.

Theres no fight. I wasnt even talking about people on here so I'm surprised folks took offense. I am just surprised by the backlash/dissatisfaction with the car. Even if its not exactly what you want, you should still be able to appreciate what it is. A lot of folks got to complaining instantly, w/o even acknowledging its purpose or how much of an achievement it is. Its more a gripe with the "internet enthusiast" in general, than folks who don't like this car.

[Onslaught]

I'm not mad

I'm a member of the local RX club in Charlotte. And some of those guys have had 3 motors put in. Some of the others have well over 100k on the clock with the original motor. I'm talking 7's and 8's here. As it turns out I think some of the guys are kind of seem like idiots. And the other half seem like guys who know what's going on. Big shock that the idiots are the ones with problems 99% of the time.

So this will be my test to see if they run fine if you look after them or not. I'm an idiot, but not when it comes to taking care of cars or doing things the correct way.

So we'll see how things go as far a reliability. I can't change the MPG so that's not what I'm talking about.

[Cookie Monster]

In a few years I'll be giving my report on the 09 up RX-8 and any problems that it's given me. I'd tell you how the first 3 1/2 years have been but I don't want to jinx myself.

You got that thing 3.5 years ago?!

[Onslaught]

You got that thing 3.5 years ago?!

Yea, that seems about right. I think


Hold on, take a half of a year off that. Brain fart

[S204STi]

Theres no fight. I wasnt even talking about people on here so I'm surprised folks took offense. I am just surprised by the backlash/dissatisfaction with the car. Even if its not exactly what you want, you should still be able to appreciate what it is. A lot of folks got to complaining instantly, w/o even acknowledging its purpose or how much of an achievement it is. Its more a gripe with the "internet enthusiast" in general, than folks who don't like this car.

I think the way you present your opinion of the car as if it's the only valid one imaginable to an enthusiast is what is so profoundly irritating about it.  Any discussion of what is lacking in the car is quashed immediately with the assumption that the owner of that view is, in your opinion, not an enthusiast and therefore cannot have a valid POV on the matter.  I can and do regularly dismiss products of all kinds out of hand without so much as a second thought if they don't offer the features I want, and I know you do too, so stop acting like it's a high crime to feel a lukewarm reception to the car.

[sportyaccordy]

I think the way you present your opinion of the car as if it's the only valid one imaginable to an enthusiast is what is so profoundly irritating about it.

Thats how you are interpreting my opinion. I said right in the first post, if you feel another car is a better choice, or that this should be modeled more like another car, get that car. I don't know where you are coming from with this enthusiast definition stuff cause I never said it.

Any discussion of what is lacking in the car is quashed immediately with the assumption that the owner of that view is, in your opinion, not an enthusiast and therefore cannot have a valid POV on the matter.

Wrong again. Like I also have said, the issue is not with the credibility of whoever, its the misunderstanding of the car's intended purpose and dismissal of the car's merits. I mean here are some quotes straight from the mouth of the guy responsible for the car's concept and execution:

"?We did know from the very beginning that it was going to be a sports car. I said, well, if it?s going to be a sports car, it has to go fast. We were looking at the Nissan GT-R, the Mitsubishi Evolution, those cars were in our heads at the original stage.

Then we thought: Should we make a car that is faster than the GT-R?

You know what we did then? We did a lot of research. We talked to owners, fanatics, real buyers of sports cars around the world. They told us: Speed isn?t everything. If it?s just an incredibly fast car, they don?t really want it. What they want is a sports car that is small, compact, light, and that handles just the way they want it to handle."

"The people I talked to were looking for something like the 80s kind of a sports car, echoes of an AE86. They wanted a stripped-down, basic sports car with the price more like that of a piece of sports equipment, not the price of a house. Those people wanted something that doesn?t exist."

"The 86 was such a popular maniac car not because of what the maker did, but what the users did with it. It created its own aftermarket and a tuner industry. The idea of the FT-86 is basically the same. We want to create a car that is easy for people to tune and to play with."

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/the-truth-about-the-ft-86-straight-from-the-mouth-of-the-chief-engineer/

So with that in mind, it seems silly to immediately look to change the car to make it more "spec worthy". You're essentially deeming it a failure without even having given it a chance as it is, which is a common theme for folks on the internet. The people actually driving + buying the car have nothing but positive things to say about it, so clearly they must have done SOMETHING right.

I can and do regularly dismiss products of all kinds out of hand without so much as a second thought if they don't offer the features I want, and I know you do too, so stop acting like it's a high crime to feel a lukewarm reception to the car.

Like I said 6 times, nobody is saying you have to like the car. The whole point is if you don't like it, its not for you. It offers something unique, which is enough.

[MrH]

Ohhhhhh....this thread is about the BRZ/FR-S.  I think half the people here still don't know what you're talking about.  You can't just smash some of the letters together from both cars and expect everyone to know what you're talking about

And actually, shockingly, I agree completely.  And I rarely agree with sporty.

Roy, you dismissing this car because it doesn't have the "features" you want is garbage.  It's not like you're saying, "well, if this car had cooled seats, I'd be interested.  That's a make or break feature for me."  Instead, you're saying let's change the entire idea, concept, and reason for this car existing by beefing it up into a turbo powered monster.  If that's what you want, Subaru already makes it...and you bought it already.

But then again, I think it's a bit hypocritical for sporty to be saying, "well, they should have made the Miata into a 2+2 hard top!  Look how fast the BRZ/FR-S twins are selling!"  That's making the exact same argument Roy is.  You're taking the miata, dismissing it because of what it is, and complaining it's not a completely different model.  The miata name has quite a bit of H&H? to it.  I would have no problem is mazda used a variation of the platform, but for god sake, make it a different model.  Call it the MX-8 or whatever, who cares.  But don't rehash the miata name for a non-miata.  Every one says the CX-5 is the CUV equivalent of a miata, but there's no reason to name it the Cross Miata: Utility Edition or some shit like that.

The BRZ/FR-S represent something completely missing from the market.  200 hp is enough to move me through traffic much faster than anyone else is moving.  When you start adding power, you have to start adding all the things necessary to reliably handle that power, and with that, you lose the essence of the car and the reason it was created to begin with.  I thought about trying to hold off for the rumored STI version (if it ever happens), but then you're making a compromise in other aspects.  Cost, gas mileage, etc.  And I'm concerned it'll just modify itself into a mustang competitor.  That tactile feel and sharpness of this car is the beauty of it.

You can say you hate it all you want, but you can't say it should be a completely different car.  It's clearly filling a void in the market.  Sporty said himself most of his frustration is with websites outside of this board, so people who are objecting, don't get your panties in such a knot.

As the only person on here who's driven one, I think the fact that I ordered one that week is most telling.  It really is that good.

[S204STi]

Meh.  I never said I hated it.  I've said again and again I think it's a great car, I just desire power in my vehicles.  This argument is as stupid as the day is long.

[sportyaccordy]

This argument is as stupid as the day is long.

Agreed

[S204STi]

There, finally common ground.

[MrH]

Meh.  I never said I hated it.  I've said again and again I think it's a great car, I just desire power in my vehicles.  This argument is as stupid as the day is long.

Then you desire a different vehicle.  I think that's the only point sporty is really trying to make (correct me if I'm wrong sporty).  The fact that the you want the opposite of what this vehicle was created and intended to do just means you want a different vehicle.

It's the same idea as dismissing this vehicle for not having a pickup bed on the back.  You may want a different vehicle, but you shouldn't dismiss this one because it doesn't fit your needs.

[MrH]

Meh.  I never said I hated it.  I've said again and again I think it's a great car, I just desire power in my vehicles.  This argument is as stupid as the day is long.

Agreed

There, finally common ground.

NOOOOO!  I was trying to drag this stupid argument out to 5 pages!