Test Drove G37S Coupe @ Track

[GoCougs]

The whole group of you needs to get a reality show.  You could do better than those trashy "Housewives" with all your bitchy fighting.....

I'm the make-everyone-spitting-mad-just-by-being-always-right ice queen, sporty's the hothead, and HRAlex is the ditzy blonde.

[GoCougs]

Man, you really love yourself. 

Yet you pull numbers out of nowhere and don't back them up when challenged.   

I am not responsible for people getting bent over facts and data.

I've posted no less than 4 links.

[GoCougs]

I think it's a very pretty car.  The sedan more than the coupe though.

I think the coupe looks fantastic; better than the 1st gen and better than the competition (esp. the 3er coupe) save for perhaps the A5/S5.

The only aspect of G styling I really don't care for is the mixture of LED brake lights and incandescent turn signals.

[Raza]

I think it's a very pretty car.  The sedan more than the coupe though.

The sedan's not bad--definitely an improvement over the G35 sedan--but the coupe was a failure. 

[MexicoCityM3]

Well, I went looking for some hard data and found this on Spanish site km77.com (BTW this is a fantastic auto site with in depth reviews of many cars, but all in Spanish).

I think of course the G37 is faster than a 328i in a drag race. However, in quite a few important measurements it is *really* close or better in the 328i.

For example, 328i 80-120 km/h passing time: 4,1 Seconds (http://www.km77.com/00/bmw/3/2012/prestaciones-motor-gasolina.asp)
I did not find data for the G37 but using a 370Z as a proxy: 4,0 Seconds (http://www.km77.com/00/nissan/370z/2009/p01.asp)

That is in maximum attack mode. If you don?t want to shift, the 328i is actually faster than a 370Z in these measurements:

80-120km/h in 4th gear, 328i 4,3 secs vs 370Z 5.9 secs. (How many car lengths is that, Cougs?)
80-120km/h in 5th gear, 328i 5,6 secs vs 370Z 9,6 secs.

Bringing a 335i to the fight would simply anihilate the Nissan/Inifiniti in these measurements. For reference, a 1M does 80-120km/h in 3.2 secs.

Regarding VQ vs. S54 engines I agree that the M3's lighter weight helps a lot in the "feel" of the power. But regarding engine characteristics, the M3 isn?t peaky at all , that is a myth, it pulls evenly from 3K to 8K RPM. It has a much, much stronger top end than the VQ and the throttle response comparison isn?t even close.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I'm the make-everyone-spitting-mad-just-by-being-always-right ice queen, sporty's the hothead, and HRAlex is the ditzy blonde.

Make everyone mad just by being always right?    You are far from always right, but clearly you haven't realized that.

[MX793]

Well, I went looking for some hard data and found this on Spanish site km77.com (BTW this is a fantastic auto site with in depth reviews of many cars, but all in Spanish).

I think of course the G37 is faster than a 328i in a drag race. However, in quite a few important measurements it is *really* close or better in the 328i.

For example, 328i 80-120 km/h passing time: 4,1 Seconds (http://www.km77.com/00/bmw/3/2012/prestaciones-motor-gasolina.asp)
I did not find data for the G37 but using a 370Z as a proxy: 4,0 Seconds (http://www.km77.com/00/nissan/370z/2009/p01.asp)

That is in maximum attack mode. If you don?t want to shift, the 328i is actually faster than a 370Z in these measurements:

80-120km/h in 4th gear, 328i 4,3 secs vs 370Z 5.9 secs. (How many car lengths is that, Cougs?)
80-120km/h in 5th gear, 328i 5,6 secs vs 370Z 9,6 secs.

Bringing a 335i to the fight would simply anihilate the Nissan/Inifiniti in these measurements. For reference, a 1M does 80-120km/h in 3.2 secs.

Regarding VQ vs. S54 engines I agree that the M3's lighter weight helps a lot in the "feel" of the power. But regarding engine characteristics, the M3 isn?t peaky at all , that is a myth, it pulls evenly from 3K to 8K RPM. It has a much, much stronger top end than the VQ and the throttle response comparison isn?t even close.

With what transmissions where these cars equipped?  The 328i AT has 8 gears.  Its 4th gear is likely closer to the Z's 3rd and it's 5th more like the Z's 4th.

[MexicoCityM3]

With what transmissions where these cars equipped?  The 328i AT has 8 gears.  Its 4th gear is likely closer to the Z's 3rd and it's 5th more like the Z's 4th.

Good point. Both were automatics. Still, compare 328i 5th with 370Z's 4th and the 370Z is only 0,3 secs ahead. This is a 370Z we are talking about, a sports car, versus the base (in the US) 3.

I think the point is that the G37 is closer to the 328i in performance than to the 335i. And looking at it that way, its pricing advantage starts looking less good.

[Cookie Monster]

I think it's a very pretty car.  The sedan more than the coupe though.

Sedans are awesome. The coupes have a huge fat ass though.

[MX793]

Good point. Both were automatics. Still, compare 328i 5th with 370Z's 4th and the 370Z is only 0,3 secs ahead. This is a 370Z we are talking about, a sports car, versus the base (in the US) 3.

I think the point is that the G37 is closer to the 328i in performance than to the 335i. And looking at it that way, its pricing advantage starts looking less good.

Didn't realize the Z was also an auto.  It's a 7AT, but it's ratios are apparently very tall.

Speed per 1000 RPM

370Z 4th gear       - 16.7 mph
BMW 328i 4th gear - 14.6 mph

370Z 5th gear       - 23.6 mph
BMW 328i 5th gear - 18.9 mph

In an 80-120 km/h dash, the RPM ranges are:
370Z 4th gear - 3000-4450
328i 4th gear - 3400-5100

370Z 5th gear - 2100-3150
328i 5th gear  - 2600 - 3950

So the BMW is geared far shorter than the Z in a straight gear-to-gear acceleration comparison.  Toss in that the turbocharged BMW is making its peak torque from 1250 to 4800 rpm.  Its average power in 4th is 206 hp and in 5th is 159.

The Nissan 3.7 is only making 90% of peak torque at 3000 RPM.  In 4th gear its average power is roughly 180 hp and in 5th it's only ~105 hp.  So no huge surprise that the BMW blows it away in a straight gear-to-gear comparison.  As to why the BMW is quicker in 5th than the Z is in 4th, I'd have to know the atmospheric conditions and have greater details on drivetrain efficiency.  If this was at altitude, then the BMW's FI motor has further advantages.

[GoCougs]

Well, I went looking for some hard data and found this on Spanish site km77.com (BTW this is a fantastic auto site with in depth reviews of many cars, but all in Spanish).

I think of course the G37 is faster than a 328i in a drag race. However, in quite a few important measurements it is *really* close or better in the 328i.

For example, 328i 80-120 km/h passing time: 4,1 Seconds (http://www.km77.com/00/bmw/3/2012/prestaciones-motor-gasolina.asp)
I did not find data for the G37 but using a 370Z as a proxy: 4,0 Seconds (http://www.km77.com/00/nissan/370z/2009/p01.asp)

That is in maximum attack mode. If you don?t want to shift, the 328i is actually faster than a 370Z in these measurements:

80-120km/h in 4th gear, 328i 4,3 secs vs 370Z 5.9 secs. (How many car lengths is that, Cougs?)
80-120km/h in 5th gear, 328i 5,6 secs vs 370Z 9,6 secs.

Bringing a 335i to the fight would simply anihilate the Nissan/Inifiniti in these measurements. For reference, a 1M does 80-120km/h in 3.2 secs.

Regarding VQ vs. S54 engines I agree that the M3's lighter weight helps a lot in the "feel" of the power. But regarding engine characteristics, the M3 isn?t peaky at all , that is a myth, it pulls evenly from 3K to 8K RPM. It has a much, much stronger top end than the VQ and the throttle response comparison isn?t even close.

A 370z will best a 328i by an even greater margin than the G37. Thing is rarely is the RWD G37 AT tested; when it is it's the AWD coupe which is notably slower because of 250 add'l pounds and the drag of AWD. So, best I could do was by way of a M/T test using MT cars, and by filling in stats here and there from other tests as noted. And by 335i and "annihilate" - lol, the margin of the G37 over the F30 328i is fairly large; the 335i barely squeaks by the G37 and the G37 catches it by 120 mph (so by your measure the G37 uber annihilates the 328i):

328i AT:
0-60: 5.6 sec
0-120: 21.5 sec
1/4 mile: 14.2 sec @ 98 mph
5-60: 6.5 sec (whoa - almost a full second - turbo lag)

G37S w/MT with lead over 328i in ():
0-60: 5.1 sec (1.5 car lengths)
0-120: 17.4 sec (18.2 car lengths)
1/4 mile: 13.6 sec @ 106 mph (3.6 car lengths)
5-60: 5.7 sec (2.6 car lengths; stat from an AWD G37 coupe so the RWD sedan will naturally be faster but I'll be nice and leave this here)

335i w/MT (see G37S link above) with lead over G37 in ():
0-60: 4.7 sec (1.2 car lengths)
0-120: 17.3 sec (0.6 car lengths)
1/4 mile: 13.3 sec @ 106 mph (1.5 car lengths)
5-60: 5.6 sec (0.3 car lengths; stat estimated from the turbo/lag-prone 328i)

[GoCougs]

Good point. Both were automatics. Still, compare 328i 5th with 370Z's 4th and the 370Z is only 0,3 secs ahead. This is a 370Z we are talking about, a sports car, versus the base (in the US) 3.

I think the point is that the G37 is closer to the 328i in performance than to the 335i. And looking at it that way, its pricing advantage starts looking less good.

See stats above; G37 easily bests the 328i and the 335i barely squeaks by and is caught by 120 mph.

[GoCougs]

"Top gear" acceleration stats have never been worth anything; MT is obvious why it's useless but even in automatics a lot depends on AT response and whether the shift logic will choose the most advantageous gear (plenty of ATs won't chose the theoretical lowest gear).

For example, the C&D test shows the 328i with a 0-60 of 5.6 sec yet going from a measly 30-50 takes 3.5 sec? Lol. It's nice to have a responsive aggressive AT in reality most someone engaged in sport driving will come up through the gears for a passing maneuver.

[TurboDan]

Sedans are awesome. The coupes have a huge fat ass though.

More cushion for the pushin'.

I love the G coupe. The sedan is too reserved looking these days.

[Submariner]

I think it's a very pretty car.  The sedan more than the coupe though.

The coupe looks...almost bland.  The sedan and coupe have very pleasing designs, but something about them doesn't sit well with me.  The last generation coupe, at the end of it's run (similar to Mr. Minor's sons car) OTOH looks fantastic. 

[SVT666]

The previous gen coupe is sexy.  The previous gen sedan? Not so much.  Current gen sedan is pretty.  Current gen coupe?  Not so much.

[LonghornTX]

Have you?

Yes, I have. Extensively actually, considering that I have sold a number of them in my previous job. I also drove them when I worked in a BMW service department during undergrad.

I have also driven just about every platform that houses the VQ37VHR. It is a good engine in most regards (as noted in the OP), but it doesn't compare to the S54 from an enthusiast's perspective (as I assume we all claim to be). This is nothing to take offense to, just the objective truth.

I will take your reply as a no to my question.

[LonghornTX]

Mind if we try that again, apples to apples (A/T sedan to A/T sedan)?

G37 A/T sedan:
0-60: 5.0 sec
1/4-mil: 13.5 sec @ 105.3 mph
0-120: 17.4 sec

328i A/T sedan:
0-60: 5.4 sec
1/4-mil: 13.9 sec @ 99.5 mph
0-120: 21.5 sec

That works to, I chose same publication since I couldn't find an A/T review on their site. Doesn't really change anything

[hotrodalex]

I'm the make-everyone-spitting-mad-just-by-being-always-right ice queen, sporty's the hothead, and HRAlex is the ditzy blonde.

You're the child who thinks he knows everything.

I think the point is that the G37 is closer to the 328i in performance than to the 335i. And looking at it that way, its pricing advantage starts looking less good.

It's a bit faster than the 328i, but in normal driving I doubt you can tell a difference. But Cougs likes to have his bragging rights. He lives his life a quarter mile at a time.

He just better hope a 335i doesn't show up...

[MexicoCityM3]

See stats above; G37 easily bests the 328i and the 335i barely squeaks by and is caught by 120 mph.

Really? I?d take this numbers form a same day, same driver comparison from Edmunds instead of your "reasonable estimates". Same transmission too:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-series/2007/comparison-test-2007-bmw-335i-vs-2008-infiniti-g37.html

335i is significantly faster in every measure.

[GoCougs]

Really? I?d take this numbers form a same day, same driver comparison from Edmunds instead of your "reasonable estimates". Same transmission too:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-series/2007/comparison-test-2007-bmw-335i-vs-2008-infiniti-g37.html

335i is significantly faster in every measure.

Did you read the link? The Edmunds test is NOT the same day; obviously the 335i is going to have a moderate advantage with a temp ~20 F cooler:

335i test temp: 59.9 F
G37S test temp: 79 F

I used no estimates on the G37S vs. 335i acceleration times - they all came from same test/day/drivers courtesy of a 4-way R&T comparo unlike your Edmunds link; and as straight up a test can get, the 335i barely squeaks by the G37S and is essentially caught by 120 mph.

[2o6]

This is pathetic.

[GoCougs]

Make everyone mad just by being always right?    You are far from always right, but clearly you haven't realized that.

Just look at this thread; a Few 'mad'd' the 328i to be as quick as the G37; myriad data show that that isn't the case (Jesus, just look at those 0-120 times). Then They got distracted by a shiny thing in the corner that was the 335i then a 'mad'd' it to be "significantly faster"; and sure enough another round of data shows that the 335i barely squeaks by and then starts to run out of steam once things hit triple digits.

Facts. Data. Logic. That is Internetry and that is me being right.

[hotrodalex]

Did you read the link? The Edmunds test is NOT the same day; obviously the 335i is going to have a moderate advantage with a temp ~20 F cooler:

335i test temp: 59.9 F
G37S test temp: 79 F

I used no estimates on the G37S vs. 335i acceleration times - they all came from same test/day/drivers courtesy of a 4-way R&T comparo unlike your Edmunds link; and as straight up a test can get, the 335i barely squeaks by the G37S and is essentially caught by 120 mph.

The 335i is 0.4 seconds quicker from 0-60, and 0.3 seconds quicker in the quarter mile. How is this "barely squeaking by" when you claim that the G37 is way faster than the 328i, yet it's only 0.4 seconds slower 0-60 and 0.4 seconds slower in the quarter mile? The difference is the same, thus the G37 barely squeaks by the 328i.

Mind if we try that again, apples to apples (A/T sedan to A/T sedan)?

G37 A/T sedan:
0-60: 5.0 sec
1/4-mil: 13.5 sec @ 105.3 mph
0-120: 17.4 sec

328i A/T sedan:
0-60: 5.4 sec
1/4-mil: 13.9 sec @ 99.5 mph
0-120: 21.5 sec

[CALL_911]

Rule #3 of life (and internetry): If you're right, you won't need to say you are.

[GoCougs]

Yes, I have. Extensively actually, considering that I have sold a number of them in my previous job. I also drove them when I worked in a BMW service department during undergrad.

I have also driven just about every platform that houses the VQ37VHR. It is a good engine in most regards (as noted in the OP), but it doesn't compare to the S54 from an enthusiast's perspective (as I assume we all claim to be). This is nothing to take offense to, just the objective truth.

I will take your reply as a no to my question.

As stated ad naseum, turbo lag blows and turbos are complicated. BMW was caught between a rock and a hard place to keep pace with the competition, and had no choice to go F/I, so I don't necessarily blame them. At the end of the day however it's a stop-gap compromise motor that plays second fiddle to the VQ; less power, more complicated, turbo issues (lag), and has reliability issues.

[GoCougs]

The 335i is 0.4 seconds quicker from 0-60, and 0.3 seconds quicker in the quarter mile. How is this "barely squeaking by" when you claim that the G37 is way faster than the 328i, yet it's only 0.4 seconds slower 0-60 and 0.4 seconds slower in the quarter mile? The difference is the same, thus the G37 barely squeaks by the 328i.

Uh, kindly reference the car-length distances as noted in my previous post.

[GoCougs]

Rule #3 of life (and internetry): If you're right, you won't need to say you are.

Anti-rule #3 of life (and Internetry): If you're wrong, continue to be wrong, even when shown that you're wrong.

[CALL_911]

Anti-rule #3 of life (and Internetry): If you're wrong, continue to be wrong, even when shown that you're wrong.

But then who's to say that the one stating they're correct is actually correct?

[GoCougs]

But then who's to say that the one stating they're correct is actually correct?

Exactly. Internetry is exceedingly existentialist when cordial; transitionally mob-o-rific when less so.