Toyotaness

[Cookie Monster]

So let me get that straight, the Toyota FT86 is not sold in USA, only the Scion?

Scion and Subaru.

[Raza]

So let me get that straight, the Toyota FT86 is not sold in USA, only the Scion?

And the Subaru.  Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ.

[AltinD]

I knew about the Subaru, but I thought the Scion version was in addition and not replacing the Toyota one. 

[sportyaccordy]

Stop feeding you troll you idiot.  IIRC, you're one of the ones that tells me that.  He does the exact same cherry picking of numbers with the Mustang....but I digress.

Youre right, my apologies.

[GoCougs]

You are talking about a guy who derives a car's driving enjoyment solely to magazine straight line performance times.

And lol @ cherry picking the worst times possible. 3 is good for high 13s-very low 14s, period; Camry @ 14.2 is easily its best time yet and it generally does mid to high 14s. Plus for the enthusiast many options are available for the 3 owner to make their car faster for cheap (a 40HP reflash = $500), it comes in stickshift, yadda yadda. The argument that the Camry is a logical choice for an enthusiast is bogus... again, if this were true, why didn't you buy one?

No cherry picking; same mag, same plethora of detailed test criteria; all under the umbrella of context that is the Camry's a moderate power weight ratio advantage (12.7 lb/hp vs. 14.5 lb/hp) owing to its ~150 lb weight loss for MY2012. Now balance that against the swap of FWD for the 328i's power band advantage, and there you go; the Camry hangs and then starts to walk after ~100 mph.

"Logical choice?" You're terrible with the strawmanism.

[giant_mtb]

Toyota has a good manufacturing process. They are good a building shit, but they don't build good shit.

I lol'd.

[SVT666]

The general public sucks, and you know it.

[Eye of the Tiger]

No.

[sportyaccordy]

No cherry picking; same mag, same plethora of detailed test criteria; all under the umbrella of context that is the Camry's a moderate power weight ratio advantage (12.7 lb/hp vs. 14.5 lb/hp) owing to its ~150 lb weight loss for MY2012. Now balance that against the swap of FWD for the 328i's power band advantage, and there you go; the Camry hangs and then starts to walk after ~100 mph.

"Logical choice?" You're terrible with the strawmanism.

Whens the last time youve been close to, let alone over 100 MPH?

And again, your G is within that contingent of cars the Camry can hang with in a straight line. So whyd you get the G?

[SVT666]

Whens the last time youve been close to, let alone over 100 MPH?

And again, your G is within that contingent of cars the Camry can hang with in a straight line. So whyd you get the G?

Stop it!  Geezus.

[Soup DeVille]

So let me get that straight, the Toyota FT86 is not sold in USA, only the Scion?

Yes, the Scion, which is essentially the same car is the only one sold here.

[AutobahnSHO]

So let me get that straight, the Toyota FT86 is not sold in USA, only the Scion?

correct. Toyota should get out of the scion business, in my opinion..

[AutobahnSHO]

... the Camry's a moderate power weight ratio advantage (12.7 lb/hp vs. 14.5 lb/hp) owing to its ~150 lb weight loss for MY2012. Now balance that against the swap of FWD for the 328i's power band advantage, and there you go; the Camry hangs and then starts to walk after ~100 mph.

head-to-head on a curvy track?   Cuz we all know that all roads are perfectly straight.

[GoCougs]

Whens the last time youve been close to, let alone over 100 MPH?

And again, your G is within that contingent of cars the Camry can hang with in a straight line. So whyd you get the G?

I've already educated you on what it means when cars drag race (in simple terms of car lengths); I will not repeat it.

[Soup DeVille]

I've already educated you on what it means when cars drag race (in simple terms of car lengths); I will not repeat it.

If a Fleetwood drag races a Fiat, how many car lengths does he win by?

[Xer0]

They've done a few great ones, true.  But as a whole, they excel at appealing to the fattest part of the bell curve, which is not great.

I'd argue that they have done more then a few.  Every company has to balance making money and keeping customers with letting engineers do crazy cool shit.  Hell, the cool, crazy shit of today is usually powering tomorrow's boring appliance. 

[2o6]

What did I tell you guys about engaging? You bring it on yourselves.

[GoCougs]

If a Fleetwood drag races a Fiat, how many car lengths does he win by?

A 2012 Camry is 189.2" long. A 2012 G37 sedan is 187.9" long

[Madman]

Are you guys on some sort of automotive judgment council? How is your definition of "best" any better than that of the dude driving a Camry, especially FOR that dude? "Oh you want a Camry, you must not know what you want " Get over yourself guys.

How do you know about the Automotive Judgement Council?  Only AJC members are allowed to know about it and we are all sworn to secrecy!

[Onslaught]

How do you know about the Automotive Judgement Council?  Only AJC members are allowed to know about it and we are all sworn to secrecy!

And we're all white. Who talked?

[Madman]

And we're all white. Who talked?

SHHHHHHH!!!!!  Nobody outside the AJC is supposed to know about that, either!



BTW, see you at next week's AJC meeting.

[AutobahnSHO]

i blame cougs...   

[Raza]

 


Sent from my Asus Transformer with accessory Keyboard Dock

[Madman]

So would now be a good time to trot out $25k Camry V6 vs. $50k C300/A4/328i "performance" sedan acceleration specs?

There hasn't been a sub-$25K V6 Camry since 2010.

($24,565 for a 2010 Camry LE V6 before options and destination charges).

[Madman]

Oh, I thought one was the Subaru.

Then again, the Subie doesn't look any different, either.  It has a slightly different air intake, but that's all.



.

.

It's a relatively low volume, niche vehicle that was a joint development?  What were you expecting?

I was expecting at least some differentiation between the Toyota/Scion and the Subaru.  It doesn't cost much to make a different front clip, considering they are all bolt-on components requiring no structural changes.  Seriously, has Toyota sunk so low as to adopt 1980s GM-style badge engineering?

[Soup DeVille]

I was expecting at least some differentiation between the Toyota/Scion and the Subaru.  It doesn't cost much to make a different front clip, considering they are all bolt-on components requiring no structural changes.  Seriously, has Toyota sunk so low as to adopt 1980s GM-style badge engineering?

Well, that's a far cry from a Chevy Citation though, my friend.

[Rupert]

I think they should have just sold as a Toyota and skipped the Scion/Subu versions.

[nickdrinkwater]

Totally serious. I exaggerate a bit, but honestly, Toyotas leave a lot to be desired from a driving enjoyment standpoint compared to their competition.

Fair enough, but that's a bit different from what you said before.

[MrH]

I was expecting at least some differentiation between the Toyota/Scion and the Subaru.  It doesn't cost much to make a different front clip, considering they are all bolt-on components requiring no structural changes.  Seriously, has Toyota sunk so low as to adopt 1980s GM-style badge engineering?

Well...

1.  They do have different front clips.  The two pictures are in the post you quoted!  I'm questioning if you even know what you're saying when you say "front clip".  Intake is all different, fog lights are different.  The entire shape is different.

2.  You have zero clue what differentiating things actually costs.  It has nothing to do with the difference in assembly time, and everything to do with tooling costs.  Tools costs millions of dollars.  Money that you have to pay up front before you ever make a dime on a vehicle.  OEMs have very strict capital spending plans and requirements.  If they can't pay for that tool, plus the cost of capital for it for the first few years until you can pay it back, they won't do it.

The subaru is relatively low volume compared to the Toyota and Scion version.  They're not going to dump a ton of money into tools to make minor changes most customers won't care about.  They need the differentiation between the drive models to drive enough additional sales to pay for the additional tools.  You can't reskin the entire damn thing with that kind of volume and ever expect to gain enough sales to cover the enormous tooling bill.

[Eye of the Tiger]

The only difference in the Subaru version should be AWD and a roof rack.