Drugs

[FoMoJo]

I agree with Sir Richard Branson...the War on drugs has failed.

I agree with most of this...10 Reasons to legalise all drugs

It would help to avoid crap like this...Toronto police fear more violence after fatal shootout

[sportyaccordy]

Weed and coke, yes.

No, I do not partake in either. But we waste more money & lives fighting them than they actually take.

[Raza]

Absolutely.  There is no logical or rational reason why they should be illegal.

[FoMoJo]

Weed and coke, yes.

No, I do not partake in either. But we waste more money & lives fighting them than they actually take.

How about Herion, Methamphetamines, Crack Cocaine, LSD, Ecstasy, Opium, Psilocybin Mushrooms, PCPs...?

[Payman]

Legalize it to make a gram of weed cost a dollar. Then excise tax it so it costs $50 to the end user. $49 from each gram goes to fund healthcare and other programs.

[FoMoJo]

Legalize it to make a gram of weed cost a dollar. Then excise tax it so it costs $50 to the end user. $49 from each gram goes to fund healthcare and other programs.

It won't work.  The main reason, imo, is to reduce crime; as well as free up a bit of room in the hoosegow.  No need to built those goddamned super-prisons up here.

[Payman]

How about Herion, Methamphetamines, Crack Cocaine, LSD, Ecstasy, Opium, Psilocybin Mushrooms, PCPs...?

All of it. Set up professional labs so a relatively safe product is produced, at 10 cents a gram. Put the bad stuff out of business while collecting taxes on the good stuff.

[FoMoJo]

All of it. Set up professional labs so a relatively safe product is produced, at 10 cents a gram. Put the bad stuff out of business while collecting taxes on the good stuff.

Yes.

[SVT_Power]

Legalize it to make a gram of weed cost a dollar. Then excise tax it so it costs $50 to the end user. $49 from each gram goes to fund healthcare and other programs.

Except prices right now are already higher than the "natural" price since it's illegally sold. You tax it that heavily, there'll probably be just as much if not more people selling weed...

[SVT_Power]

Also why are we even comparing weed with all the other drugs?

Weed doesn't have the same effects as some of those drugs, nor is it nearly as harmful on your body. Multiple studies show no long-term effects of marijuana use even after prolonged usage as well.

[FoMoJo]

Also why are we even comparing weed with all the other drugs?

Weed doesn't have the same effects as some of those drugs, nor is it nearly as harmful on your body. Multiple studies show no long-term effects of marijuana use even after prolonged usage as well.

Although it doesn't have the same effect as other hard drugs, it is still illegal and, therefore, promotes criminal activity.  The idea is to reduce/get rid of criminal activity involving drugs.  It is a horrible sequence of crime involving the entire chain of activities from growing/manufacturing to the end user.

[Payman]

Except prices right now are already higher than the "natural" price since it's illegally sold. You tax it that heavily, there'll probably be just as much if not more people selling weed...

Keep the end price below the going street value. I dunno, not really my area of expertise, but something needs to be done.

[Laconian]

Weed, definitely. I think it is less harmful than alcohol and tobacco. It might be better if it replaced alcohol for the people that are likely to abuse substances. If they are predisposed to abuse SOMETHING, they might as well do the thing that has the fewest externalities.

[Tave]

Legalize it to make a gram of weed cost a dollar. Then excise tax it so it costs $50 to the end user. $49 from each gram goes to fund healthcare and other programs.

You can only tax a product so much before you create a black market for it. For example, in the US there is a huge black market for tobacco in and around NY/NJ because those states tax the crap out of it.

[FoMoJo]

Weed, definitely. I think it is less harmful than alcohol and tobacco. It might be better if it replaced alcohol for the people that are likely to abuse substances. If they are predisposed to abuse SOMETHING, they might as well do the thing that has the fewest externalities.

It should be pretty obvious by now that the market will not shrink whether for soft or hard drugs.  The impetus in legalizing all drugs would be simply towards reducing the criminal element; those who produce the product.  I have little knowledge or regard of/for the users who perpetuate the illegal drug trade.  My instinctive (though unfounded) appraisal of them is of a bunch of weak-willed, self-indulging, waste-of-space types who have no regard of the consequences faced by others because of their 'habit'.  However, they are there and there they will remain. 

Should they consider the consequences of their 'habit', they might think of the conditions of the forced labour used in third-world nations to grow and harvest the raw product, under the control of thugs or, the fact that they are helping to bank-roll the Taliban, among other criminal outfits, to kill our soldiers and perpetrate terrorist acts.  Decriminalization of drugs, among other things, should provide for the product grown/production of these drugs to take place in regions that do not support our enemies; perhaps on home soil.

[GoCougs]

Absolutely not. We should be lucky that alcohol is legal what with upwards of 20MM alcoholics ruining it for many Americans. Jesus, imagine how bad it gets when illicit stuff is legalized.

[Raza]

Legalize it to make a gram of weed cost a dollar. Then excise tax it so it costs $50 to the end user. $49 from each gram goes to fund healthcare and other programs.

Raise the prices too high and you'll just create a new black market with new crime. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

I would love to do some drugs right now. Something aside from alcohol, which just makes me more depressed.

[FoMoJo]

Absolutely not. We should be lucky that alcohol is legal what with upwards of 20MM alcoholics ruining it for many Americans. Jesus, imagine how bad it gets when illicit stuff is legalized.

I doubt the market would change much if drugs were legalized.  As it is now, it falls to criminals to profit from the drug trade much the same as when prohibition (of booze) was in effect.

[SVT666]

Legalizing drugs will not reduce or eliminate gang violence.  They will just find something else to move.  That's what always happens.

[FoMoJo]

Legalizing drugs will not reduce or eliminate gang violence.  They will just find something else to move.  That's what always happens.

It will elimate a good portion of their income and those attracted by easy money and fancy lifestyle will need to look elsewhere.  Who wants to be a poor crook?  Maybe they'll go into investment banking and learn a thing or two.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Legalizing drugs will not reduce or eliminate gang violence.  They will just find something else to move.  That's what always happens.

More hookers! And illegal exotic woods for guitars!

[GoCougs]

As to the "War on Drugs" and Branson's article, he somewhat has a point; a lot of money has been wasted (with the implication that government has used it as an avenue to expand its power) and it has otherwise been overzealous (as it concerns foreign military intervention and aid).

However, he fails miserably in the assertion that decriminalization would evaporate the black market/criminal drug rings - it by definition will make it worse by expanding the user base. Also, the decriminalization in Portugal and Switzerland efforts are combined with the state essentially making users wards of the state in order to get them treatment. Really? The state exists to get you on then off dope? LOL.

[GoCougs]

I doubt the market would change much if drugs were legalized.  As it is now, it falls to criminals to profit from the drug trade much the same as when prohibition (of booze) was in effect.

Would there be ~20MM alcoholics in the US if booze were illegal?

The toll of Prohibition was a hell of a lot less than 20MM alcoholics driving on our roads, beating their wives, shooting people in clubs, etc. The failure of Prohibition can also be traced to government corruption.

[FoMoJo]

As to the "War on Drugs" and Branson's article, he somewhat has a point; a lot of money has been wasted (with the implication that government has used it as an avenue to expand its power) and it has otherwise been overzealous (as it concerns foreign military intervention and aid).

However, he fails miserably in the assertion that decriminalization would evaporate the black market/criminal drug rings - it by definition will make it worse by expanding the user base. Also, the decriminalization in Portugal and Switzerland efforts are combined with the state essentially making users wards of the state in order to get them treatment. Really? The state exists to get you on then off dope? LOL.

I doubt that the majority of drug users would need to be made wards of the state.  However, that is a different discussion.

[FoMoJo]

Would there be ~20MM alcoholics in the US if booze were illegal?

There is no way of knowing.

The toll of Prohibition was a hell of a lot less than 20MM alcoholics driving on our roads, beating their wives, shooting people in clubs, etc. The failure of Prohibition can also be traced to government corruption.

The consequence of prohibition was funding criminals.  Certainly there was corruption in Police Forces and Federal Agencies as well; a consequence of criminals having funds to bribe the corrupt.

[Raza]

Would there be ~20MM alcoholics in the US if booze were illegal?

The toll of Prohibition was a hell of a lot less than 20MM alcoholics driving on our roads, beating their wives, shooting people in clubs, etc. The failure of Prohibition can also be traced to government corruption.

Alcoholism is made up anyway.  It's not even real.  You might as well be talking about rainbow radiation causing unicorn cancer.

[Raza]

There is no way of knowing.
The consequence of prohibition was funding criminals.  Certainly there was corruption in Police Forces and Federal Agencies as well; a consequence of criminals having funds to bribe the corrupt.

Government action created organized crime and we continue to reap what they've sown.  Beyond that, there's still no good reason to make them illegal. 

[FoMoJo]

Government action created organized crime and we continue to reap what they've sown.  Beyond that, there's still no good reason to make them illegal. 

Government is stuck in the middle sometimes.  There were what some considered ethical reasons for banning booze, health, drunk-on-the-job, wasted money, domestic violence, holy-rollers.  However, people never considered the consequences; funding criminals which created a wealthy criminal society that branched out into other human vices, including drugs.  I really have no use for those who abuse any form of drug, including alcohol but we are stuck with them.  Rather than giving their money to criminals so they can perpetrate greater crimes, it should go to supporting legal enterprises.

[Laconian]

It seems like the Netherlands is still doing OK.