Drugs

[280Z Turbo]

Marijuana, yes. Methamphetamine, no.

[FoMoJo]

Marijuana, yes. Methamphetamine, no.

It will not resolve the major issue unless all drugs are legalized.

[Laconian]

Do you think there will still be demand for all the drugs? Is it possible that drug-seeking people will go with the path of least resistance (the decriminalized drugs)?

[280Z Turbo]

It will not resolve the major issue unless all drugs are legalized.

Well, as a libertarian...I hate to say it, but a lot of people are not smart enough to make good choices.

If you legalize meth, more people will use it. Impressionable young people, especially. If you don't believe that, you're just fooling yourself. Meth heads are shitty people who do shitty things. I don't want more shitty people.

Save me the whole slippery slope, bullshit. The fact is, we're better off with it being illegal.

[280Z Turbo]

Do you think there will still be demand for all the drugs? Is it possible that drug-seeking people will go with the path of least resistance (the decriminalized drugs)?

If you legalize all drugs, most people will magically stop wanting them. Also, we can balance our eleventy trillion dollar budget deficit by placing taxes on drugs. It's not like people can produce their own or buy under the table.

[FoMoJo]

Well, as a libertarian...I hate to say it, but a lot of people are not smart enough to make good choices.

If you legalize meth, more people will use it. Impressionable young people, especially. If you don't believe that, you're just fooling yourself. Meth heads are shitty people who do shitty things. I don't want more shitty people.

Save me the whole slippery slope, bullshit. The fact is, we're better off with it being illegal.

If drugs were legalized, impressionable young people would, likely, have more difficulty getting them.

[FoMoJo]

If you legalize all drugs, most people will magically stop wanting them. Also, we can balance our eleventy trillion dollar budget deficit by placing taxes on drugs. It's not like people can produce their own or buy under the table.

The major concern is to stop criminals from getting rich on the proceeds and using that power to influence and corrupt others.

[280Z Turbo]

If drugs were legalized, impressionable young people would, likely, have more difficulty getting them.

Well, that's impossible.

[FoMoJo]

Well, that's impossible.

Maybe, maybe not.  However, would you rather fund the Taliban and Central American drug lords as well as countless street gangs rather than risking having, maybe, a few more stupid kids stealing their parent's stash?

[hotrodalex]

If drugs were legalized, impressionable young people would, likely, have more difficulty getting them.

Just like they have difficulty getting alcohol?

[sportyaccordy]

As to the "War on Drugs" and Branson's article, he somewhat has a point; a lot of money has been wasted (with the implication that government has used it as an avenue to expand its power) and it has otherwise been overzealous (as it concerns foreign military intervention and aid).

However, he fails miserably in the assertion that decriminalization would evaporate the black market/criminal drug rings - it by definition will make it worse by expanding the user base. Also, the decriminalization in Portugal and Switzerland efforts are combined with the state essentially making users wards of the state in order to get them treatment. Really? The state exists to get you on then off dope? LOL.

It would def reduce the criminal element for marijuana. Much of the drug activity in Mexico revolves around mota. Those cartels would be out of business overnight. And I don't see why the US would ramp up rehab efforts. The # of heroin + crack addicts wouldn't change... NOBODY is sitting down somewhere like "man I really wanna SMOKE CRACK, but I just dont wanna break the law"

Would there be ~20MM alcoholics in the US if booze were illegal?

The toll of Prohibition was a hell of a lot less than 20MM alcoholics driving on our roads, beating their wives, shooting people in clubs, etc. The failure of Prohibition can also be traced to government corruption.

Prohibition had no effect on alcohol consumption or alcoholism. Some even argue that in some cases prohibition made certain cities MORE alcoholic. Not to mention the dangers of backyard breweries, and as you always elude to poorly, the "potential for corruption". I just watched a documentary on it, if anything prohibition is an example of why drugs SHOULD be legalized.

Also, @ crying about people being on drugs on the road, but not wanting to pay the govt for use of it. So you get to decide what other people do on the road, but would offer no $$$$ for use of said road in the event of a voluntary tax. What a joke

[GoCougs]

The major concern is to stop criminals from getting rich on the proceeds and using that power to influence and corrupt others.

Shouldn't the major concern be protecting others from the necessary immoral action of drug users?

[GoCougs]

As to the disaster that legalization would cause, look no further than the disaster of prescription drug abuse. LOL.

[Onslaught]

I can drink myself to oblivion.
I can sniff glue all day if I want.
I can eat fast food until I'm 500 pounds.
I can smoke tobacco all day long.
I can chew the shit too.


But I can't smoke Pot.

[GoCougs]

It would def reduce the criminal element for marijuana. Much of the drug activity in Mexico revolves around mota. Those cartels would be out of business overnight. And I don't see why the US would ramp up rehab efforts. The # of heroin + crack addicts wouldn't change... NOBODY is sitting down somewhere like "man I really wanna SMOKE CRACK, but I just dont wanna break the law"
Prohibition had no effect on alcohol consumption or alcoholism. Some even argue that in some cases prohibition made certain cities MORE alcoholic. Not to mention the dangers of backyard breweries, and as you always elude to poorly, the "potential for corruption". I just watched a documentary on it, if anything prohibition is an example of why drugs SHOULD be legalized.

Also, @ crying about people being on drugs on the road, but not wanting to pay the govt for use of it. So you get to decide what other people do on the road, but would offer no $$$$ for use of said road in the event of a voluntary tax. What a joke

So if legalized why would criminals all of sudden stop peddling???

Yes; easier access = more users.

Nah, alcohol use dropped of precipitously during Prohibition.

Strawmanism = I win.

[FoMoJo]

Just like they have difficulty getting alcohol?

Currently, there is a distribution process that provides kids with easy access to drugs; almost home delivery.  If drugs were legal, providing it was done properly, drugs would not be sold across the counter to those under age so, yes, it would, likely, be harder for them to acquire drugs.

However, the conversation is not about the users.  They will remain whether old or young and, at this point, I don't give a shit about them.  The concern is more about the supply of money given to criminals who use that money to, among other things, wage war against us, enslave populations as well as have gun-fights in public areas where other, non-criminal people, are killed and injured with guns bought from the proceeds of illegal drugs.

[sportyaccordy]

So if legalized why would criminals all of sudden stop peddling???

Why would anyone go to some shady ass drug dealer when they could walk into a store, buy their shit and be on their merry way?

Yes; easier access = more users.

Not for hard drugs... the folks smoking crack and PCP are going to get it whether its legal or not, and the folks aren't/won't use it with the laws as they are will never use them

Nah, alcohol use dropped of precipitously during Prohibition.

Link? The documentary I saw was by PBS

Strawmanism = I win.

Whatever helps you cope w/being wrong. Fact is, for pot and coke, legalization would do the country a lot of good. And for the other hard stuff it would make no difference.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Why would anyone go to some shady ass drug dealer when they could walk into a store, buy their shit and be on their merry way?

You obviously don't know anything about druggies. The only reason they do drugs is because drugs are illegal and bad, and they are bad people, so they do bad and illegal things. If drugs were legal, the druggies would start raping babies.

[CALL_911]

[FoMoJo]

Shouldn't the major concern be protecting others from the necessary immoral action of drug users?

Nothing can be done about the users.

[Raza]

Well, as a libertarian...I hate to say it, but a lot of people are not smart enough to make good choices.

That is not your concern--nor you prerogative to judge what is good and what is not unless it violates your rights.

[Raza]

So if legalized why would criminals all of sudden stop peddling???

Yes; easier access = more users.

Nah, alcohol use dropped of precipitously during Prohibition.

Strawmanism = I win.

Prohibition also created a black market and organized crime.

Stupidity = You lose.

[Raza]

Why would anyone go to some shady ass drug dealer when they could walk into a store, buy their shit and be on their merry way?
Not for hard drugs... the folks smoking crack and PCP are going to get it whether its legal or not, and the folks aren't/won't use it with the laws as they are will never use them

Link? The documentary I saw was by PBS
Whatever helps you cope w/being wrong. Fact is, for pot and coke, legalization would do the country a lot of good. And for the other hard stuff it would make no difference.

Nah dog.  Were it legal, I'd mix a big bowl of meth, crack, and heroin and marinate my chicken in it.

[GoCougs]

Nothing can be done about the users.

Yes; make sure there are a lot less of them by not legalizing dope

[Raza]

Yes; make sure there are a lot less of them by not legalizing dope

Do you use tampons?  They're legal.  But there are some people that are just never going to use tampons.  There isn't a huge amount of pent up demand for meth and heroin.

And yet, you have no moral standing for keeping drugs illegal.  None whatsoever. 

[GoCougs]

Prohibition also created a black market and organized crime.

Stupidity = You lose.

Government corruption creates black markets and organized crime.

Logic never loses.

[GoCougs]

That is not your concern--nor you prerogative to judge what is good and what is not unless it violates your rights.

It most certainly is others' concern and prerogative. One of the few moral roles of the state is to protect natural rights; not simply punish when they are violated. If an action is a natural/proven/logical precursor to a natural rights violation (DUI, discharging a firearm in a crowded city, hiring a hit man, etc.) it is most certainly fodder for moral rule of law.

[Raza]

Government corruption creates black markets and organized crime.

Logic never loses.

Haha, you have no logic.  Okay, you do, but it's ridiculously flawed.

Making drugs illegal = Restricting rights
Restricting rights = Immoral government action
Immoral government action = Black market

Read it top down, left to right, and be enlightened. 

And there is no legitimate reason to outlaw drugs, just as there is no legitimate reason to outlaw abortions.  It isn't about what other people should do, it's about what you have the right to do.  And you do not have the right to restrict the rights of others when their actions do not violate the rights of other people. 

Simple as that.  Everyone who doesn't believe that drugs should be legal is a fascist--or a hypocrite, at the very least.  Definitely un-American. 

[Raza]

It most certainly is others' concern and prerogative. One of the few moral roles of the state is to protect natural rights; not simply punish when they are violated. If an action is a natural/proven/logical precursor to a natural rights violation (DUI, discharging a firearm in a crowded city, hiring a hit man, etc.) it is most certainly fodder for moral rule of law.

All your examples violate the rights of others.  Doing drugs does not.  Your logic is deeply and stupidly flawed.  What I do to myself that does not endanger others is not the business of anyone else.

Here is an example of this distinction:
Hating gays is wrong, but not illegal.
Beating the crap out of a gay guy because you hate that he is gay is wrong and illegal.

Do you get the picture yet or do I have to actually draw you a picture? 

[SVT666]

Haha, you have no logic.  Okay, you do, but it's ridiculously flawed.

Making drugs illegal = Restricting rights
Restricting rights = Immoral government action
Immoral government action = Black market

Read it top down, left to right, and be enlightened. 

And there is no legitimate reason to outlaw drugs, just as there is no legitimate reason to outlaw abortions.  It isn't about what other people should do, it's about what you have the right to do.  And you do not have the right to restrict the rights of others when their actions do not violate the rights of other people. 

Simple as that.  Everyone who doesn't believe that drugs should be legal is a fascist--or a hypocrite, at the very least.  Definitely un-American. 

Then nobody is "American" because everyone feels it is their right to trump the rights of others whether it be by religious doctrine or just by their own idealogical beliefs.