Drugs

[sportyaccordy]

Hey Cougs. Whats your stance on gun rights?

[Raza]

Then nobody is "American" because everyone feels it is their right to trump the rights of others whether it be by religious doctrine or just by their own idealogical beliefs.

And those feelings are universally wrong.  Those people hide behind patriotism and righteousness in order to impose their will on others due to whatever misguided doctrine they've been fed. 

[GoCougs]

Haha, you have no logic.  Okay, you do, but it's ridiculously flawed.

Making drugs illegal = Restricting rights
Restricting rights = Immoral government action
Immoral government action = Black market

Read it top down, left to right, and be enlightened. 

And there is no legitimate reason to outlaw drugs, just as there is no legitimate reason to outlaw abortions.  It isn't about what other people should do, it's about what you have the right to do.  And you do not have the right to restrict the rights of others when their actions do not violate the rights of other people. 

Simple as that.  Everyone who doesn't believe that drugs should be legal is a fascist--or a hypocrite, at the very least.  Definitely un-American. 

You do not understand moral law. The state exists to protect natural rights which goes beyond simply punishing for rights violations (see above post about precursor violation). Drugs by definition make you irrational and immoral and is thus a natural precursor to the violation of others' natural rights and is thus fodder for moral law.

[sportyaccordy]

You do not understand moral law.

Can you find us a link to the definition you adhere to?

The state exists to protect natural rights which goes beyond simply punishing for rights violations (see above post about precursor violation).

According to who/what?

Drugs by definition make you irrational and immoral and is thus a natural precursor to the violation of others' natural rights and is thus fodder for moral law.

By definition? What definition? And a lot of things, like drugs, may or may not make you irrational/immoral, but they're not banned.

[Raza]

Drugs by definition make you irrational and immoral and is thus a natural precursor to the violation of others' natural rights and is thus fodder for moral law.

False.  

[Raza]

And it should also be pointed out that I use several highly dangerous and highly addictive drugs on a regular basis that are completely legal.  All it takes is a phone call and I get it at a heavily discounted price, to boot.

[GoCougs]

All your examples violate the rights of others.  Doing drugs does not.  Your logic is deeply and stupidly flawed.  What I do to myself that does not endanger others is not the business of anyone else.

Here is an example of this distinction:
Hating gays is wrong, but not illegal.
Beating the crap out of a gay guy because you hate that he is gay is wrong and illegal.

Do you get the picture yet or do I have to actually draw you a picture? 

I understand natural rights and moral rule of law:

DUI does not violate the rights of others. Assault/manslaughter violates the rights of others.
Discharging a firearm in a crowded city does not violate the rights of others. Assault/manslaughter violates the rights of others.
Hiring a hit man does not violate the rights of others. Murder violates the rights of others.

If what you "do" to yourself is by definition making yourself rational and immoral (= extreme inclination toward rights violations of others) than what you "do" is fodder for moral law. Doing dope is no different than the non-rights violating precursors listed.

[GoCougs]

False. 

You not only don't understand moral rule of law, you do not understand dope or dope fiends.

[sportyaccordy]

You not only don't understand moral rule of law, you do not understand dope or dope fiends.

That you call it "dope" demonstrates you clearly don't either.

[Raza]

You not only don't understand moral rule of law, you do not understand dope or dope fiends.

I'd be willing to be that I have done more drugs than you and know many more people who do drugs than you.  And I know many, many drug users, or "dope fiends" as you like to call them, who lead very responsible and successful lives.  I bet you do too, but you don't know that they're dope fiends, because they haven't offered to suck your dick to pay for their weekly bowl.  Because most people who use drugs function completely normally.

Your code of law is deeply, deeply flawed.  DUI puts others in danger and potentially violates their rights (whether or not driving under the influence without incident should be illegal is a different discussion), discharging a firearm in a crowded city absolutely endangers others (i.e. violates their right to live), and hiring a hitman is intent to kill, and killing violates the rights of others. 

[SVT666]

Do you drink alcohol Cougs?

[MexicoCityM3]

Yes. I have no doubt whatsoever.

[GoCougs]

And it should also be pointed out that I use several highly dangerous and highly addictive drugs on a regular basis that are completely legal.  All it takes is a phone call and I get it at a heavily discounted price, to boot.

Another inconvenient truth for pro druggists - the abject disaster that prescription pill (ab)use has become (not saying you're an abuser though).

[GoCougs]

I'd be willing to be that I have done more drugs than you and know many more people who do drugs than you.  And I know many, many drug users, or "dope fiends" as you like to call them, who lead very responsible and successful lives.  I bet you do too, but you don't know that they're dope fiends, because they haven't offered to suck your dick to pay for their weekly bowl.  Because most people who use drugs function completely normally.

Your code of law is deeply, deeply flawed.  DUI puts others in danger and potentially violates their rights (whether or not driving under the influence without incident should be illegal is a different discussion), discharging a firearm in a crowded city absolutely endangers others (i.e. violates their right to live), and hiring a hitman is intent to kill, and killing violates the rights of others. 

Nah, especially if you're using the hard stuff, at best you suck at life.

"My" code (not mine, it exists with or without me) is inviolate.

[Raza]

There are plenty of casual cocaine users out there leading glorious lives, I'm sure of it.  Our last two presidents did coke.  And your code is just that--yours.  And flawed.  And incorrect.  The proper moral code--the one to which I adhere--is the only one that is inviolate, as you say, because the basic premise is not to impose the will of others on people where it violates their rights.  Your code is totalitarian and therefore wrong.

[Colonel Cadillac]

False. 

+1

[sportyaccordy]

[giant_mtb]

Nah, especially if you're using the hard stuff, at best you suck at life.

"My" code (not mine, it exists with or without me) is inviolate.

Someone get this guy a hit.

[sportyaccordy]

Someone get this guy a hit.

I didnt want to say it.

[Colonel Cadillac]

This thread is making my head spin. There is far too much dumbassery and too many assumptions being made by some who clearly lack a solid understanding of the subject.


I recently read that there are an estimated 50,000 dead as a result of the marijuana drug trade and marijuana drug wars--nearly the casualty count of the Vietnam war--and yet there is an applause and strong backing of the policies that have been directly linked to this widespread carnage.


Government corruption is a considerable copout. The corruption and carnage are merely symptoms of major structural drug market problems; problems that will likely subside if sweeping reforms are made to such markets.  

[Colonel Cadillac]

Nah, especially if you're using the hard stuff, at best you suck at life.

"My" code (not mine, it exists with or without me) is inviolate.

Do you know the difference between use of and abuse of a drug?

[GoCougs]

This thread is making my head spin. There is far too much dumbassery and too many assumptions being made by some who clearly lack a solid understanding of the subject.


I recently read that there are an estimated 50,000 dead as a result of the marijuana drug trade and marijuana drug wars--nearly the casualty count of the Vietnam war--and yet there is an applause and strong backing of the policies that have been directly linked to this widespread carnage.


Government corruption is a considerable copout. The corruption and carnage are merely symptoms of major structural drug market problems; problems that will likely subside if sweeping reforms are made to such markets. 

There is only a fundamental lack of understanding of physiology, history, current events, and moral rule of law.

Most all those deaths occur in anarchist areas (northern Mexico) as a result of the lack of rule of law, if not out-n-out pro-drug trade government by way of bribes and buy-offs.

The carnage is singularly related to the profoundly negative physiological effects of the hard drug trade. There is no such carnage for other illegal goods/markets - from elephant tusks to stolen art masterpieces.

[GoCougs]

Do you know the difference between use of and abuse of a drug?

Do you know how the physiological effects of hard illicit drugs differs from alcohol, tobacco, and Big Pharma products?

[sportyaccordy]

What a square

Cougs do you have any first hand experience w/illegal drugs?

[Eye of the Tiger]

What a square

Cougs do you have any first hand experience w/illegal drugs?

Probably not since his mom

[Raza]

Most all those deaths occur in anarchist areas (northern Mexico) as a result of the lack of rule of law, if not out-n-out pro-drug trade government by way of bribes and buy-offs.

And do you not see the correlation between the legal status of drugs and illegal criminal activity?  Come on, I know you're not dumb.  Crazy, but not dumb. 

[Colonel Cadillac]

Do you know how the physiological effects of hard illicit drugs differs from alcohol, tobacco, and Big Pharma products?

For the record--which ones do you consider to be hard illicit drugs?

[giant_mtb]

For the record--which ones do you consider to be hard illicit drugs?

Advil, Ambien, and Ritalin are INSANE.

[Raza]

For the record--which ones do you consider to be hard illicit drugs?

Advil, Tylenol, Propecia. 

[Colonel Cadillac]

The smart guys seem to be winning here. Care to comment Cougs?