Car Downsizing Trend

[dazzleman]

No, the Omni is best remembered as a rusting shitbox that drove an entire generation of drivers away from buying another American car.

Back in the mid-'80s, a friend's dad had a Plymouth Horizon (identical to the Dodge Omni) with the 1.7 litre Volkswagen engine.  He had nothing but problems with it.  The last straw came when we went to the Fine Arts Theatre in downtown Chicago to see the film "Spinal Tap" on it's original release.  After the movie, we jumped back in the Horizon and it refused to start.  Turn the key......nothing!  We had to take the train home.

A few days later he bought a brand new Honda Civic 3-door hatch.  He's driven Hondas ever since.

To be fair, most American cars during that era were the same.  That's what killed Detroit.  Many (like my parents) swore they'd never buy another American car after their experience with cars from that era.  What did my family in was our experience with a 1982 Mercury Lynx.  The Horizon was a finely engineered driving machine next to that car.

[cawimmer430]

No, the Omni is best remembered as a rusting shitbox that drove an entire generation of drivers away from buying another American car.

Madman, ever thought about becoming a comedian? You rock. Seriously. 

Back in the mid-'80s, a friend's dad had a Plymouth Horizon (identical to the Dodge Omni) with the 1.7 litre Volkswagen engine.  He had nothing but problems with it.  The last straw came when we went to the Fine Arts Theatre in downtown Chicago to see the film "Spinal Tap" on it's original release.  After the movie, we jumped back in the Horizon and it refused to start.  Turn the key......nothing!  We had to take the train home.

A few days later he bought a brand new Honda Civic 3-door hatch.  He's driven Hondas ever since.

That's Honda. The Power of Dreams! 

[cawimmer430]

Kate Jackson?  I think she's the least sexy of the cast.  Back in the day, we were all huge fans of Farrah.  I even named my dog after her.  But now she looks a bit flashy, and the classic beauty of Jaclyn Smith and Cheryl Ladd win out, IMO.  Even Shelley Hack isn't half bad, though for some reason she didn't make it as an angel and was replaced with Tanya Roberts (not my favorite) in the last season.

Kate Jackson and Jaclyn Smith were my favorites. Never really thought Farrah F. was hot. I always tended to skip her while lusting over the other two. 

And the best thing about that show was the theme song and the various cars in the background. The world seemed a better place back then. There was us (the free world) and them (the Communists)! 

[dazzleman]

Kate Jackson and Jaclyn Smith were my favorites. Never really thought Farrah F. was hot. I always tended to skip her while lusting over the other two. 

And the best thing about that show was the theme song and the various cars in the background. The world seemed a better place back then. There was us (the free world) and them (the Communists)! 

So I guess the Farrah pictures didn't get as sticky as the pictures of Kate Jackson and Jaclyn Smith?    Farrah doesn't look as good in retrospect as she did then.  Not sure why.  But during the first season of Charlie's Angels (1976-77), Farrah-mania swept the land.  I remember a car dealership in my town had a huge poster of Farrah that took up one of their plate-glass windows.

I do love watching the shows and women from that era.  Everything seemed simpler and cleaner.  I still am drawn to the style of hair and clothes that women had during that era.  Not sure if the world was a better place, though.  Surely different, but not necessarily better.  It was a bad moment when the Soviets invaded Afganistan.  That put a big scare into a lot of people.

[nickdrinkwater]

Something to consider, a lot of these small cars are not really much smaller than old "medium" size cars

A new Civic is about the size, inside anyway, as an old Accord. Golf/Jetta are about as big inside as a B5 Passat. The Versa is downright cavernous. And a lot of current "medium" cars are just too god damn big. Most people are not hauling around 5 legit size adults on a regular basis, which makes something like a current Accord excessive for a solo commuter. And then if you do need to haul a lot of people around, i.e. a family w/young kids, a little CUV makes more sense because of its ease of ingress/egress. They are getting lighter too... CX-5 is just about as roomy as a Mazda6, with more cargo capacity, ground clearance, gas mileage, and about the same curb weight (FWD). I mean I would prob go with the CX-5 over the 6.

You're right, companies are getting much better at packaging.  There's considerably more room in my B6 Passat than my old B5 and I don't think the car is much bigger if at all.  However I don't think they have managed to do this with smaller hatches, I don't think for example the new shape Focus is any more spacious than the old one.

[Colin]

Cars are getting larger and larger but there is actually no more room inside them than before......... go and look at the marvels of things like an Austin Maxi or "landcrab" ADO17 to see the acres of legroom in a car that was only 14 foot long............... most of the problem is less to do with crash protection (that's the excuse usually trotted out), and more to do with the angle of the screens. When the screen was almost vertical, so was the dash panel, but now you get a vast acreage of dash moulding, robbing the car of interior room. I measured the distance from the base of the windscreen to the edge of the dash in a Fiesta and it is 2 feet....... that is 2 whole feet of space lost to the passengers. No wonder there is no more space in the current Fiesta than in the first generation car even though the latest one is an awful lot longer.

[MrH]

Something to consider, a lot of these small cars are not really much smaller than old "medium" size cars

A new Civic is about the size, inside anyway, as an old Accord. Golf/Jetta are about as big inside as a B5 Passat. The Versa is downright cavernous. And a lot of current "medium" cars are just too god damn big. Most people are not hauling around 5 legit size adults on a regular basis, which makes something like a current Accord excessive for a solo commuter. And then if you do need to haul a lot of people around, i.e. a family w/young kids, a little CUV makes more sense because of its ease of ingress/egress. They are getting lighter too... CX-5 is just about as roomy as a Mazda6, with more cargo capacity, ground clearance, gas mileage, and about the same curb weight (FWD). I mean I would prob go with the CX-5 over the 6.

Hey, you're alive.  Glad to have you backed.  I missed having someone to argue with

Unfortunately, no arguing today.  I agree on all counts.  The new Civic is the old Accord in terms of size, and yeah, I think it's the sweet spot in the market too.  The population in general though is growing though.  Seems kind of crazy, but as a whole, our generation is taller, bigger, faster, stronger than the previous one.  I've got quite a few friends who are just simply too tall to fit in a civic all that comfortably.  A lot of them bought Accords instead.

I could definitely buy a CX-5 over a mazda6 also.  I'm a big fan of the CX-5.

[hotrodalex]

Cars are getting larger and larger but there is actually no more room inside them than before......... go and look at the marvels of things like an Austin Maxi or "landcrab" ADO17 to see the acres of legroom in a car that was only 14 foot long............... most of the problem is less to do with crash protection (that's the excuse usually trotted out), and more to do with the angle of the screens. When the screen was almost vertical, so was the dash panel, but now you get a vast acreage of dash moulding, robbing the car of interior room. I measured the distance from the base of the windscreen to the edge of the dash in a Fiesta and it is 2 feet....... that is 2 whole feet of space lost to the passengers. No wonder there is no more space in the current Fiesta than in the first generation car even though the latest one is an awful lot longer.

An original Mini could fit four 6' tall passengers. Can't say that about the new one, even though it is quite a bit larger.

[SVT666]

Cars are getting larger and larger but there is actually no more room inside them than before......... go and look at the marvels of things like an Austin Maxi or "landcrab" ADO17 to see the acres of legroom in a car that was only 14 foot long............... most of the problem is less to do with crash protection (that's the excuse usually trotted out), and more to do with the angle of the screens. When the screen was almost vertical, so was the dash panel, but now you get a vast acreage of dash moulding, robbing the car of interior room. I measured the distance from the base of the windscreen to the edge of the dash in a Fiesta and it is 2 feet....... that is 2 whole feet of space lost to the passengers. No wonder there is no more space in the current Fiesta than in the first generation car even though the latest one is an awful lot longer.

Windshields start further forward though.  Making the windshield and dash completely vertical means you would still be stuck with the same legroom, so the dash would just be 2 feet further away from you.

[sportyaccordy]

You're right, companies are getting much better at packaging.  There's considerably more room in my B6 Passat than my old B5 and I don't think the car is much bigger if at all.  However I don't think they have managed to do this with smaller hatches, I don't think for example the new shape Focus is any more spacious than the old one.

One thing I am not sure of is how the new packaging affects maintenance... for example, old Accord, you open the hood and you could access pretty much every component. Intake/exhaust manifolds, engine mounts and everything in between. New Civic, windshield damn near comes to the valve cover. I don't know how people maneuver in that engine bay, though I guess for 99% of the owner base thats a non issue

Hey, you're alive.  Glad to have you backed.  I missed having someone to argue with

Unfortunately, no arguing today.  I agree on all counts.  The new Civic is the old Accord in terms of size, and yeah, I think it's the sweet spot in the market too.  The population in general though is growing though.  Seems kind of crazy, but as a whole, our generation is taller, bigger, faster, stronger than the previous one.  I've got quite a few friends who are just simply too tall to fit in a civic all that comfortably.  A lot of them bought Accords instead.

I could definitely buy a CX-5 over a mazda6 also.  I'm a big fan of the CX-5.

No more arguing from me....

Its def true people are legitimately taller. Me and all my siblings are taller than my parents for example. Still though, I have a few relatively tall friends, but they fit fine in my buddy's GTI for example. I guess my point is even though people are def way bigger (not just fatter but taller too) than they used to be, I dont think the avg family needs the room of an Accord over a Civic just yet.

[NomisR]

One thing I am not sure of is how the new packaging affects maintenance... for example, old Accord, you open the hood and you could access pretty much every component. Intake/exhaust manifolds, engine mounts and everything in between. New Civic, windshield damn near comes to the valve cover. I don't know how people maneuver in that engine bay, though I guess for 99% of the owner base thats a non issue
No more arguing from me....

Its def true people are legitimately taller. Me and all my siblings are taller than my parents for example. Still though, I have a few relatively tall friends, but they fit fine in my buddy's GTI for example. I guess my point is even though people are def way bigger (not just fatter but taller too) than they used to be, I dont think the avg family needs the room of an Accord over a Civic just yet.

Maybe because you live in NYC so you don't use a car as much, but after having the baby, I can understand why people may want a bigger car.  It's simply more convenient to have a bigger car when you have a stroller, bunch of baby stuff to carry around.  Not to mention a car seat that they most likely have to be in until the age of 8. 

If I put my kid in the RSX, it's a pain in the ass to get the car seat into the back seat and then the stroller takes up majority of the room.  And in the RDX, stroller still takes up a lot of room and car seat takes up a lot of room where if you want to seat 4 adults + 1 kid, it's really difficult. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Maybe because you live in NYC so you don't use a car as much, but after having the baby, I can understand why people may want a bigger car.  It's simply more convenient to have a bigger car when you have a stroller, bunch of baby stuff to carry around.  Not to mention a car seat that they most likely have to be in until the age of 8. 

If I put my kid in the RSX, it's a pain in the ass to get the car seat into the back seat and then the stroller takes up majority of the room.  And in the RDX, stroller still takes up a lot of room and car seat takes up a lot of room where if you want to seat 4 adults + 1 kid, it's really difficult. 

Stroller? Kids have fucking legs. If not, you carry them in a backpack.

[NomisR]

Stroller? Kids have fucking legs. If not, you carry them in a backpack.

He can't walk yet, i don't think I can put him on a leash and make him crawl everywhere.

[MrH]

Yeah, I'd backpack the kid for sure then.  I'd never let a stroller hold me back from BRZ nirvana.

[Raza]

Yeah, I'd backpack the kid for sure then.  I'd never let a stroller hold me back from BRZ nirvana.

Keep talking, buddy.  You'll be bald and in a minivan in 5 years.   

[Eye of the Tiger]

Keep talking, buddy.  You'll be bald and in a minivan in 5 years.   

I call dibs on the pristine low mileage 5-year-old BRZ.

[sportyaccordy]

Maybe because you live in NYC so you don't use a car as much, but after having the baby, I can understand why people may want a bigger car.  It's simply more convenient to have a bigger car when you have a stroller, bunch of baby stuff to carry around.  Not to mention a car seat that they most likely have to be in until the age of 8. 

If I put my kid in the RSX, it's a pain in the ass to get the car seat into the back seat and then the stroller takes up majority of the room.  And in the RDX, stroller still takes up a lot of room and car seat takes up a lot of room where if you want to seat 4 adults + 1 kid, it's really difficult. 

An RSX is tiny inside compared to a newish Civic

[TurboDan]

You're right, companies are getting much better at packaging.  There's considerably more room in my B6 Passat than my old B5 and I don't think the car is much bigger if at all.  However I don't think they have managed to do this with smaller hatches, I don't think for example the new shape Focus is any more spacious than the old one.

B6 is about 3 inches larger depending on the year.

[cawimmer430]

So I guess the Farrah pictures didn't get as sticky as the pictures of Kate Jackson and Jaclyn Smith?   

None of sticky white stuff was wasted on her.   

Farrah doesn't look as good in retrospect as she did then.  Not sure why.  But during the first season of Charlie's Angels (1976-77), Farrah-mania swept the land.  I remember a car dealership in my town had a huge poster of Farrah that took up one of their plate-glass windows.

These days people will go to Google pictures, but in those days having a fullsize photo of Farrah on your dealership showroom window probably helped sell a few cars. 

I do love watching the shows and women from that era.  Everything seemed simpler and cleaner.  I still am drawn to the style of hair and clothes that women had during that era.  Not sure if the world was a better place, though.  Surely different, but not necessarily better.  It was a bad moment when the Soviets invaded Afganistan.  That put a big scare into a lot of people.

Shows from that era had their own character. Static and simple camera views and boring lighting but it all had such charm. 

[NomisR]

An RSX is tiny inside compared to a newish Civic

Yeah, but i'm wanting even more room with the RDX.