Car Shopping: What should thewizard drive?

[Raza]

My car is slower, Neon and Focus were around the same. I never once have felt uncomfortable or suffering for power.



It was a nice car, in many ways somewhat better than Yaris.

Okay...so what you're saying is that since you have driven slower and shittier cars, the xB was not slow and shitty?  Your frame of reference is completely off.  A person who has eaten McDonald's his whole life probably thinks that Wendy's is the zenith of haute cuisine, but that's just he doesn't know any better.  And before you try to shoot back at me saying my frame of reference is as equally as skewed, but in the opposite direction, I've driven cars that were much, much, much slower than the xB.  But just because my family's old 300SD was slow and the xB is faster than that doesn't make the xB not slow.

And it was a shitbox.  If the Yaris is worse than that, you're probably better off with a rickshaw. 

[68_427]

They are fine vehicles. Name one thing that goes wrong with them.

Rear dif explodes

[2o6]

You win this thread.  For some reason I forgot about EP3s. 

Not that cheap....

[2o6]

Okay...so what you're saying is that since you have driven slower and shittier cars, the xB was not slow and shitty?  Your frame of reference is completely off.  A person who has eaten McDonald's his whole life probably thinks that Wendy's is the zenith of haute cuisine, but that's just he doesn't know any better.  And before you try to shoot back at me saying my frame of reference is as equally as skewed, but in the opposite direction, I've driven cars that were much, much, much slower than the xB.  But just because my family's old 300SD was slow and the xB is faster than that doesn't make the xB not slow.

And it was a shitbox.  If the Yaris is worse than that, you're probably better off with a rickshaw. 

It's an economy car....

[Eye of the Tiger]

Rear dif explodes

Weld it and understeer.

[Raza]

It's an economy car....

Good.  Your point is that it's supposed to be shitty and slow?  Then yes, the xB excels at being a shitbox, which is good, because they meant it to be a shitbox, and it's fast, because they meant it to be slow. 

[ifcar]

The point of the small engine was for maximum fuel economy. The second-generation xB with a powerful engine and mediocre mileage was a sales disaster. The car's sales success wasn't complicated: interior room + gas mileage + low prices.

[Raza]

The point of the small engine was for maximum fuel economy. The second-generation xB with a powerful engine and mediocre mileage was a sales disaster. The car's sales success wasn't complicated: interior room + gas mileage + low prices.

Sigh.

I don't get this board anymore.  I say it was a shitbox.  You say it was successful because it had great interior room and good gas mileage.  I say it's slow, someone else makes and argument out of it by saying not only was it not slow, it was meant to be slow, so it's not slow. 

I never said that I didn't get why it was successful.  I know exactly why it was successful.  I know why lots of cars are successful.  There are some I don't understand, sure, but I get most of them.  This was never my argument. 

[2o6]

Sigh.

I don't get this board anymore.  I say it was a shitbox.  You say it was successful because it had great interior room and good gas mileage.  I say it's slow, someone else makes and argument out of it by saying not only was it not slow, it was meant to be slow, so it's not slow. 

I never said that I didn't get why it was successful.  I know exactly why it was successful.  I know why lots of cars are successful.  There are some I don't understand, sure, but I get most of them.  This was never my argument. 

You call it crap but you offer no comparison any sort of realistic basis. The Jetta and kin aren't that much more in terms of refinment and such. It wasn't a penalty box at all; it sold well because it offered a level or style and refinement previously unseen in this class of car in the US.

Good.  Your point is that it's supposed to be shitty and slow?  Then yes, the xB excels at being a shitbox, which is good, because they meant it to be a shitbox, and it's fast, because they meant it to be slow. 

I didn't say it wasn't slow, I'm saying it's stupid to expect anything else or call it too slow compared to modern cars today.

[Raza]

You call it crap but you offer no comparison any sort of realistic basis. The Jetta and kin aren't that much more in terms of refinment and such. It wasn't a penalty box at all; it sold well because it offered a level or style and refinement previously unseen in this class of car in the US.
I didn't say it wasn't slow, I'm saying it's stupid to expect anything else or call it too slow compared to modern cars today.

I said it was slow and your exact words were:

No it isn't.

And you're saying you didn't say that?  You need to sort your own opinions out before you get into an argument with me. 

If you think it offered nearly as much refinement as a car like the Jetta of the same year, then your automotive opinion can't be trusted at all.  The MkIV Jetta was miles and miles beyond that tinny box, same with the same year generation Mazda3.  And, the Mazda had the exact same base price as the xB in 2004, according to MSN.  So while the Jetta was significantly more expensive before options, the Mazda3 offered 148 horsepower and 35mpg.  Same highway mileage as the xB with more power for the same price. 

I know you think the xB is cute or whatever but that doesn't make it good.  It was a reliable and roomy car that was somewhat cheap, but not nearly as cheap as it should have been.  The one I drove came within just $3,000 or so of my midsize 1.8T Passat, as I recall.  $3,000 is not an insignificant amount of money in this price range and I'm not suggesting that everyone who bought and xB should have gotten a Passat instead, before you jump wildly to that insane conclusion.  I'm saying that the xB was not the value that you think it is.  And when the Mazda3 runs circles around it with greater levels of speed and refinement for the same mileage, you have to wonder why I should take you seriously. 

[2o6]

I said it was slow and your exact words were:

And you're saying you didn't say that?  You need to sort your own opinions out before you get into an argument with me.

You can't say it's slow by modern standards when most cars on sale today turn similar numbers.
 

If you think it offered nearly as much refinement as a car like the Jetta of the same year, then your automotive opinion can't be trusted at all.  The MkIV Jetta was miles and miles beyond that tinny box,

2.slow models only, and the 2.0L model was slower than the xB. It only made 115HP, and it was saddled with more weight. And it was worse on gas. Then you get into the acres upon acres of problems that those cars had. Besides, the 2.0L model goes from 0-60 in around the high 8's, so it's not that much faster than the Scion Twins.


same with the same year generation Mazda3.  And, the Mazda had the exact same base price as the xB in 2004, according to MSN.  So while the Jetta was significantly more expensive before options, the Mazda3 offered 148 horsepower and 35mpg.  Same highway mileage as the xB with more power for the same price.  

Mazda 3 is also far smaller inside than xB. Also, xA (mechanically the same) was cheaper and STILL offered about the same amount of room for a lower entry price and better fuel economy (and better in the real world, too)


I know you think the xB is cute or whatever but that doesn't make it good.  It was a reliable and roomy car that was somewhat cheap, but not nearly as cheap as it should have been.  The one I drove came within just $3,000 or so of my midsize 1.8T Passat, as I recall.  

No. xB's started at $13K ish, xA's are close to 12K. Passat started at 21K. That's before any options on either car...even if you throw the Jetta IV in the mix, it was nearly 18K for a base 2.slow model.


$3,000 is not an insignificant amount of money in this price range and I'm not suggesting that everyone who bought and xB should have gotten a Passat instead, before you jump wildly to that insane conclusion.  I'm saying that the xB was not the value that you think it is.  And when the Mazda3 runs circles around it with greater levels of speed and refinement for the same mileage, you have to wonder why I should take you seriously.  

Mazda 3 (and many other compacts) were good contemporaries, and they did beat out the Scion twins in regards to refinement, but they had more value in regards to longevity, interior space, fuel economy and others. A base Mazda 3 for just shy of 14K didn't came with manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows and IIRC no ABS or anything else. Scions were far better equipped.

[ifcar]

Sigh.

I don't get this board anymore.  I say it was a shitbox.  You say it was successful because it had great interior room and good gas mileage.  I say it's slow, someone else makes and argument out of it by saying not only was it not slow, it was meant to be slow, so it's not slow.  

I never said that I didn't get why it was successful.  I know exactly why it was successful.  I know why lots of cars are successful.  There are some I don't understand, sure, but I get most of them.  This was never my argument.  

"Shitbox" means "bad car." It's not a bad car. It's just not your type of car.

Of course it's slow, though. My mother, who loves hers and has only owned slow cars, thinks it's slow. That just doesn't make it a bad car, just a slow car.

And all the dealer-installed accessories were ridiculously overpriced, but it was well-equipped base and the dealers were only supposed to let buyers add stereo upgrades and appliques and such nonsense.

[MexicoCityM3]

I tend to agree with Raza that it is a shitbox....for an enthusiast. Isn't this an enthusiast forum?

[TurboDan]

I tend to agree with Raza that it is a shitbox....for an enthusiast. Isn't this an enthusiast forum?

2o6 is enthusiastic about shitboxes. 

[2o6]

If you'd like something a little nicer than Maxima, consider Infinti I.

[Rich]

[2o6]

I thought that was Chinese.

[thewizard16]

If you'd like something a little nicer than Maxima, consider Infinti I.

I'm trying to compile a list of things to consider if I see ads or hear about one (it's difficult to go out car shopping right now so I'll have to be efficient at it), and I think the Infiniti I is on that list, I just don't see many of them around. Actually there seem to be surprisingly few "older" Maximas listed around here too. More Passats and Jettas than I'd have guessed though.

[Raza]

Just because other cars are also slow doesn't mean that it wasn't.  You're a total fucking moron if you can't grasp this concept.  That's like saying someone that weighs 350 pounds isn't fat because there's someone else that weighs 400.  If you don't get that, then there's more than just your opinion on cars that shouldn't be taken seriously. 

The xA did not offer the same amount of room.  Not even close.  Do you know what the word same means?  The xA had 7" less headroom in the front AND rear and 4" less front legroom. 

same   [seym]  Show IPA
adjective
1.
identical with what is about to be or has just been mentioned: This street is the same one we were on yesterday.
2.
being one or identical though having different names, aspects, etc.: These are the same rules though differently worded.
3.
agreeing in kind, amount, etc.; corresponding: two boxes of the same dimensions.
4.
unchanged in character, condition, etc.: It's the same town after all these years.


The xA's dimensions are very similar to the Mazda3's, besting it by an inch here or there.

But your argument is that the xB was roomy, and you use it to counter that the Mazda3 was faster, as fuel efficient, and more refined.  Did you really actually say that?  Again, you're not even arguing, you're just saying things because you're being torn apart by facts and you don't know what the fuck to say. 

The xB started at 14K just about.  Plenty of options and personal accessories to drive up the price.  I paid 21K for my 1.8T GLS.  Do you think it's completely out of the realm of possibility that there NEVER was a single xB that sold for 18 grand?  Or is this just you being a complete fucking moron again and thinking you know everything and trying to argue with people who have far more experience than you?

Your argument is that it's not slow BECAUSE OTHER CARS ARE ALSO SLOW.  I can't get over that.  It's not even close to being something an intelligent person would say. 

[Raza]

"Shitbox" means "bad car." It's not a bad car. It's just not your type of car.

Of course it's slow, though. My mother, who loves hers and has only owned slow cars, thinks it's slow. That just doesn't make it a bad car, just a slow car.

And all the dealer-installed accessories were ridiculously overpriced, but it was well-equipped base and the dealers were only supposed to let buyers add stereo upgrades and appliques and such nonsense.

No, the fact that it's a slow car doesn't make it a bad car, I agree.  Slow cars can be just fine.  Slow cars can even be fun.  My friend's 2.slow Jetta IV 5MT was a laugh to drive.  You could go all out and enjoy the handling and push the car without ever breaking the speed limit.  There's something to be said for the amount of fun you can have in a slow car.  

But the fact that it was tinny, had a terrible gearbox (that could have been a bit fragile; I remember one magazine had one as a long term tester and they destroyed one of the synchros in only a few thousand miles), a goofy interior, and I'm sure something as tall and slab-sided with such brick-inspired design must have been shit to drive on the highway (I never took the one I drove off surface streets) is what makes it a bad car.  Also, yes, on an enthusiast note, it was not fun to drive, it handled poorly, felt tippy, and made you look like either a total douche or an old person.

[Payman]

Words cannot adequately portray the awesome. The "CEXI" plate is the cherry on top.

[Eye of the Tiger]

No, the fact that it's a slow car doesn't make it a bad car, I agree.  Slow cars can be just fine.  Slow cars can even be fun.  My friend's 2.slow Jetta IV 5MT was a laugh to drive.  You could go all out and enjoy the handling and push the car without ever breaking the speed limit.  There's something to be said for the amount of fun you can have in a slow car. 

But the fact that it was tinny, had a terrible gearbox (that could have been a bit fragile; I remember one magazine had one as a long term tester and they destroyed one of the synchros in only a few thousand miles), a goofy interior, and I'm sure something as tall and slab-sided with such brick-inspired design must have been shit to drive on the highway (I never took the one I drove off surface streets) is what makes it a bad car.  Also, yes, on an enthusiast note, it was not fun to drive, it handled poorly, felt tippy, and made you look like either a total douche or an old person.

Horriblenon the highway, bad gas mileage on the highway, and the front and rear
bumpers made great snow plows.

[2o6]

Words cannot adequately portray the awesome. The "CEXI" plate is the cherry on top.

I'm not sure why, but it is now becoming more attractive to me.

[cawimmer430]

What about a Maserati Biturbo? 

They look great, they sound great, they are great! And they can be made reliable with todays technology. Awesome car. So sexy. 

[CJ]

They cannot be made reliable in any meaning of the word reliable.

[cawimmer430]

They cannot be made reliable in any meaning of the word reliable.

They can.

Read some Maserati Biturbo owners forums. Many folks there have made their Biturbos reliable daily drivers by replacing parts known to be problematic. It's worth it. They're so hot. I love the 1st generation models.

[TurboDan]

They cannot be made reliable in any meaning of the word reliable.

At least Wims recommended a disastrous, yet cool, car. It's usually some rusty old land yacht.

[cawimmer430]

At least Wims recommended a disastrous, yet cool, car. It's usually some rusty old land yacht.

Well by default I would have recommended this, but he said gas mileage is a priority.  

[2o6]

At least Wims recommended a disastrous, yet cool, car. It's usually some rusty old land yacht.

Yeah, Biturbos are way cooler than old Oldsmobile Omega.

[cawimmer430]

Yeah, Biturbos are way cooler than old Oldsmobile Omega.

Delta 88 Sedan