No Hope Whatsoever with Lincoln After this Statement from FMC

[Atomic]

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1078436_lincoln-to-focus-on-targeting-highest-volume-luxury-segments

[Raza]

Lincoln is a black hole.  Talk about throwing good money after bad.

[cawimmer430]

This guy has a good point.

"Cadillac has the same problem Lincoln does...MKnames... silly childlike sports car lettering that tends to send luxury car buyers toward other brands. Cars with names have class, cars with letters and numbers blend into the background easily" - DougB06 Posted: 8/13/2012 9:44am PDT


All those MK_ names confuse the hell out of people and are just plain dumb in my opinion. They need real historic names like they had in the past like Continental, Town Car, Versailles, Capri etc.

And don't get me started on their current design language. Ugh....

[Atomic]

What a dumb thing for Lincoln to do... You NEVER say as a business what you are not going to do (their failed attempt at bashing Cadillac), you focus on the product.

[Raza]

This guy has a good point.

"Cadillac has the same problem Lincoln does...MKnames... silly childlike sports car lettering that tends to send luxury car buyers toward other brands. Cars with names have class, cars with letters and numbers blend into the background easily" - DougB06 Posted: 8/13/2012 9:44am PDT


All those MK_ names confuse the hell out of people and are just plain dumb in my opinion. They need real historic names like they had in the past like Continental, Town Car, Versailles, Capri etc.

And don't get me started on their current design language. Ugh....

No, he doesn't.  No one says "I was going to buy a Lincoln MKS, but since I didn't know what they stood for, I bought a Lexus GS instead".

The names are not the problem. 

[r0tor]

Ugh their styling language is awful and with ford heading towards more upscale interiors in their own products, it leaves Lincoln in its current state useless.

Either give Lincoln their own cars (preferably rwd) or put them out of their misery.

[Atomic]

Ugh their styling language is awful and with ford heading towards more upscale interiors in their own products, it leaves Lincoln in its current state useless.

Either give Lincoln their own cars (preferably rwd) or put them out of their misery.

Exactly right. I would rather have seen more shared products with Volvo (but not Ford versions, too) and Jaguar (Lincoln LS) than off-shoots of lesser Ford's.

[Atomic]

An Ford Escape sized Lincoln for the youth market? What  ?!

[cawimmer430]

No, he doesn't.  No one says "I was going to buy a Lincoln MKS, but since I didn't know what they stood for, I bought a Lexus GS instead".

The names are not the problem. 

I find the Lexus naming system rather dull and uncreative. But then again they started out with such names.

Cadillac and Lincoln didn't. Their whole changeover to those three-unit-designations seems dull and uncreative to me. A Cadillac XLR could have been called an Allante or Eldorado or Coupe Deville for example. Sounds much more luxurious and traditional.

[Atomic]

I find the Lexus naming system rather dull and uncreative. But then again they started out with such names.

Cadillac and Lincoln didn't. Their whole changeover to those three-unit-designations seems dull and uncreative to me. A Cadillac XLR could have been called an Allante or Eldorado or Coupe Deville for example. Sounds much more luxurious and traditional.

No easy fix at this stage, I think. With Lincoln considering an MKC or MKD, for example shows that they do not know what they are doing, including with PR and marketing.

[cawimmer430]

No easy fix at this stage, I think. With Lincoln considering an MKC or MKD, for example shows that they do not know what they are doing, including with PR and marketing.

It's a tragedy what's happening over at Lincoln. All their cars are named MK_ and then they have the "Navigator". What an unbalanced lineup in terms of name designation...

[Hachee]

Their names are dumb, but that's not the problem.  As for Cadillac, they did have some good names in the past, but there's too much baggage for them to go back, and they DON'T want to be seen as traditional. 

It's the cars.  There's nothing great, and nothing to really sway buyers from other brands.  I don't think they necessarily need a car to compete with the S-Class at this point, but the current batch of cars is just never going to do it.  And I don't think there's really anything special on the horizon.  It's unbelievable to me that Ford, as big as it is, can't muster the resources to really have a brand that's competitive with other top brands. 

[GoCougs]

Names ain't got nothing to do with it. Lincoln is a wholesale rebadge operation the likes of which even '80s GM never reached - a definite black mark on Mulally's record.

[cawimmer430]

I realize the whole "appealing to the young crowd" thing is important, but I still think the names both Cadillac and Lincoln used to use are the way to go. Ultimately the qualities of the car are the most important factor but I personally just cannot stand such "short-cut" names like MKX, MKS, ATS, CTS etc.

[Raza]

I realize the whole "appealing to the young crowd" thing is important, but I still think the names both Cadillac and Lincoln used to use are the way to go. Ultimately the qualities of the car are the most important factor but I personally just cannot stand such "short-cut" names like MKX, MKS, ATS, CTS etc.

Why do you think that when no other luxury brand does that?

[sportyaccordy]

I find the Lexus naming system rather dull and uncreative. But then again they started out with such names.

Cadillac and Lincoln didn't. Their whole changeover to those three-unit-designations seems dull and uncreative to me. A Cadillac XLR could have been called an Allante or Eldorado or Coupe Deville for example. Sounds much more luxurious and traditional.

I agree 100%. Yes its true the product itself isn't that great, but when the car names are some jumble of alphabet soup that doesn't help get customers into the showrooms in the first place.

MZKS? Who gives a shit? Continental? Mark X? Those names attached to strong design can (and did!) evoke EMOTION, which is how the Americans need to play the game. I am still not convinced that aping the Germans, with their cold (and now completely illogical) naming system and formulaic segmenting is the way. Germans have German segments cornered and are damn good at that. Big breakout volume cars for Lexus (and to some degree the Infiniti G) were decidedly UNGerman- ES & RX. So Lincoln is on a somewhat logical path in going left

The problem is they need to further separate from Ford. MKZ/MKS should combine to become the Continental. Call on the classic- suicide doors and all (think of how much easier they would make loading a baby seat for example). Throw one of those whale mouth filter grills on a Mustang and call it the Mark X (you know, like the good old days). Do something about that god awful CUV boat, make it something people want to be seen in, not a Lincoln R-Class. Etc. These guys have an opportunity and plenty of old brand cachet to cash in on, they just need to seize it.

[SVT666]

Names ain't got nothing to do with it. Lincoln is a wholesale rebadge operation the likes of which even '80s GM never reached - a definite black mark on Mulally's record.

Bullshit.  GM's rebadging has been much much worse.  Lincoln at least redesigned the sheetmetal.  GM would just slap a different badge on the same exact vehicle.  And for the record, Mulally wanted to kill Lincoln off with Mercury and focue on just one brand.  It was the one and only thing Bill Ford vetoed in Mulally's plans.

[SVT666]

I realize the whole "appealing to the young crowd" thing is important, but I still think the names both Cadillac and Lincoln used to use are the way to go. Ultimately the qualities of the car are the most important factor but I personally just cannot stand such "short-cut" names like MKX, MKS, ATS, CTS etc.

When you use "old" names like Fleetwood, Brougham, Park Avenue, Continental, etc. that will drive people to other brands.  Those names evoke an image of old and stodgy.

[Payman]

Naming IS a big part of the problem. I have no idea what's the difference between a MKZ, MKS, etc. ALL the luxury marques are guilty of this. Mercedes is worst of all. Names like Lincoln Continental, Acura Legend, Cadillac Coupe DeVille, etc have emotional impact with the buying public.

[SVT666]

Naming IS a big part of the problem. I have no idea what's the difference between a MKZ, MKS, etc. ALL the luxury marques are guilty of this. Mercedes is worst of all. Names like Lincoln Continental, Acura Legend, Cadillac Coupe DeVille, etc have emotional impact with the buying public.

Acura Legend is still one of my all time favourite names.  DeVille, SeVille, Continental, Park Avenue, etc. can all suck my dick.  Only old white men drive cars with those names.

[Payman]

When you use "old" names like Fleetwood, Brougham, Park Avenue, Continental, etc. that will drive people to other brands.  Those names evoke an image of old and stodgy.

Disagree. If it's a good product, (most) old name makes it that much cooler. I wouldn't use the first 3 you mentioned, but there are other great names from the past.

[SVT666]

Disagree. If it's a good product, (most) old name makes it that much cooler. I wouldn't use the first 3 you mentioned, but there are other great names from the past.

Very few.  Cadillac's names were especially "old".

[Payman]

Very few.  Cadillac's names were especially "old".

Time for some new names then. Alphanumeric "names" are lazy and uninspiring, and speaks nothing of the product. Even though it's ugly, I'd look twice at a new Acura Legend. Imagine the new MK...whatever named "Lincoln Serenity". I'd want to check that out.

[Vinsanity]

I hope they keep in mind that when they throw around the term "high volume", that the BMW 3-series and Mercedes E-class are the best sellers in their respective segments. And that restyled Fusions and Taurii aren't legit competitors to those cars.

[Raza]

Naming IS a big part of the problem. I have no idea what's the difference between a MKZ, MKS, etc. ALL the luxury marques are guilty of this. Mercedes is worst of all. Names like Lincoln Continental, Acura Legend, Cadillac Coupe DeVille, etc have emotional impact with the buying public.

You say you don't know the difference between the MKZ and the MKS.  That's fine.

But names don't fix that, not without historical context that younger buyers do not have. 

[2o6]

I think Lincoln just has horrible product. Would you buy an old shape MKZ over a Lacrosse? MKZ clearly looked like the Fusion.it was based on.

[Madman]

Part of the problem with Lincoln is they've gone down-market and have essentially become the new Mercury.  Then you have Ford moving up-market with nicely finished, class leading products.  As Mercury already proved, there's not a lot of space between an aspirational mainstream brand and "real" premium brands like BMW and Audi.  Being squeezed from both top and bottom is never easy and it's even worse when all you have to offer are a bunch of Fords with some extra tinsel tacked on.

[Raza]

The thing is, I don't understand why they can't dedicate the money to make Lincoln a true luxury brand now that they don't have Jaguar anymore. 

[Madman]

The thing is, I don't understand why they can't dedicate the money to make Lincoln a true luxury brand now that they don't have Jaguar anymore. 

Ford still has to pay off the bank loans they took out before the economy crashed.  And it will cost BILLIONS to build Lincoln into a competitive world-class premium brand.  Ford just needs to admit they're out of the luxury car business.

[Raza]

Ford still has to pay off the bank loans they took out before the economy crashed.  And it will cost BILLIONS to build Lincoln into a competitive world-class premium brand.  Ford just needs to admit they're out of the luxury car business.

I'm sure they have some Jag designs laying around.  I bet Ford could make a Jag-like Jag that isn't as fuck ugly as Jags are now.