IL: Tesla Model S

[2o6]

But how long will they keep operating at a loss? Comparing this to GM is not similar at all. GM just gave up if a technology didn't catch on immediately, but they still had money coming in from their bread and butter car lines. Tesla has no such thing to fall back on.

Why do you think Porsche made the Cayenne? You need some way of keeping money rolling in while developing new cars and technologies, and right now Tesla has none of that to fall back on.

I would put more money on GM, Toyota or similar developing a more competent electric car suitable for the public. They have way more resources, experience, and knowledge of the market at their disposal...Chevy Volt is a nifty piece of tech, if expensive. Prius is the car to beat; most other hybrids at other manufacturers use technology based upon tech from the Prius (Ford, Nissan). Then you have Chinese companies like BYD creating cars that offer more usable range (although maybe not good quality) at a lower price than what Tesla has.




Although I like the Roadster and Model S, I don't think they make much sense over their traditional contemporaries.

[GoCougs]

They aren't heading in a good direction if they don't have financial backing or demand

None of these are being sold at anywhere close to a profit anyways.  Like I said, I give them a year at most.

Interesting but epic fail; electric cars ares simply and literally worthless. Left to market devices Tesla is DOA. They've been riding a Solyndra-esque $500MM government loan in addition to big company (Toyota, etc.) investment, so yeah, their failure is either just around the corner or they'll forever be subsidized and coddled by artificial forces.

[hotrodalex]

I'd much rather support a start-up company with fresh ideas than an established company that can only think inside the box.

But you guys are right. I'm dumb for supporting and having confidence in the little guy. I should just go buy a Prius or Volt.

[Raza]

There's a lot here that's being said that's absolutely correct.  A company can't survive on halo products alone.

[GoCougs]

I'd much rather support a start-up company with fresh ideas than an established company that can only think inside the box.

But you guys are right. I'm dumb for supporting and having confidence in the little guy. I should just go buy a Prius or Volt.

How does one support a start-up company without presumably buying its products and implicitly condoning the thievery of $500MM in tax dollars?

[2o6]

How does one support a start-up company without presumably buying its products and implicitly condoning the thievery of $500MM in tax dollars?

Regardless of where the money came from, it's not a good sign if the only thing keeping you going is loans.

[ifcar]

Um, the only thing keeping them going for a while was loans because they weren't selling any cars between the discontinuation of the Roadster and the only-just-happened introduction of the Model S. Wait to see if it actually is such a sales flop before predicting the company's demise.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Everyone has that short fat friend in their group that you always wanted to stick in the trunk when you go places.

This is a fantastic design, he even has to face away from the rest of the passengers so he can't be part of the conversation.

[2o6]

Um, the only thing keeping them going for a while was loans because they weren't selling any cars between the discontinuation of the Roadster and the only-just-happened introduction of the Model S. Wait to see if it actually is such a sales flop before predicting the company's demise.

This company had issues when they were making the Roadster. They're still hemorrhaging money, and IDK if they will turn a profit anytime soon...Wouldn't be surprised if they fail and companies end up buying up anything valuable from them (Toyota, who already gets some parts from them for RAV4EV)

[GoCougs]

Um, the only thing keeping them going for a while was loans because they weren't selling any cars between the discontinuation of the Roadster and the only-just-happened introduction of the Model S. Wait to see if it actually is such a sales flop before predicting the company's demise.

They were super in the red with the roadster too.

Tesla's (unstated) business model is IMO not unlike a lot of tech companies - ride the tide of grants/loans/investment until you get bought by a conglomerate.

I'd like to see cogent business case that Tesla could ever see hit self-sustaining profitability

[hotrodalex]

There sure are a bunch of negative Nancy's on this board.

I'm a fan of any company that tries to develop new and interesting products. They had a somewhat rocky start, but they have a new model now and you guys already say it'll fail, for no apparent reason. Cougs, go back to general talk if you're just going to complain about loans. The the government granted the loans, so that's what you should be complaining about, instead of just hoping the company will fail.

[2o6]

There sure are a bunch of negative Nancy's on this board.

I'm a fan of any company that tries to develop new and interesting products. They had a somewhat rocky start, but they have a new model now and you guys already say it'll fail, for no apparent reason. Cougs, go back to general talk if you're just going to complain about loans. The the government granted the loans, so that's what you should be complaining about, instead of just hoping the company will fail.

Dude, the company is operating on a huge loss...and has been for quite some time

[hotrodalex]

Dude, the company is operating on a huge loss...and has been for quite some time

What do you expect from a brand new company producing one of the only viable electric cars in the world, without any other products to sell?

The Model S just came out. I'll wait and see how it does before making doomsday predictions.

[MrH]

Lol, I'll send a PM to you guys later on all of this.

[2o6]

What do you expect from a brand new company producing one of the only viable electric cars in the world, without any other products to sell?

The Model S just came out. I'll wait and see how it does before making doomsday predictions.

Its not being sold at a profit!

[hotrodalex]

Is this a Teutonic "big things on the way!' moment?

[280Z Turbo]

Electric cars are the future, but battery cars are not.

[Raza]

Electric cars are the future, but battery cars are not.

This is something I don't understand.

We have synthetic motor oil.
We cloned a sheep.
We have tofu.
We have Red Bull.
We have spray tan.

Why don't we have synthetic gasoline?  Is anyone even working on this?  Everything is just molecules put together.  How hard can it be--for someone with a degree and training in chemistry--to synthesize gasoline?

[Rich]

This is something I don't understand.

We have synthetic motor oil.
We cloned a sheep.
We have tofu.
We have Red Bull.
We have spray tan.

Why don't we have synthetic gasoline?  Is anyone even working on this?  Everything is just molecules put together.  How hard can it be--for someone with a degree and training in chemistry--to synthesize gasoline?

This.

They are using synthetic JP-8 in some jets now (I don't know if it's 100% synthetic or a smaller percent)

Also, I'm a fan of Tesla's work.  Interested to see what they come out with in the future.

[280Z Turbo]

This is something I don't understand.

We have synthetic motor oil.
We cloned a sheep.
We have tofu.
We have Red Bull.
We have spray tan.

Why don't we have synthetic gasoline?  Is anyone even working on this?  Everything is just molecules put together.  How hard can it be--for someone with a degree and training in chemistry--to synthesize gasoline?

They'd probably synthesize it from oil.

[MrH]

Is this a Teutonic "big things on the way!' moment?

Totally.  It'll just be a link to my blog.

[hotrodalex]

This is something I don't understand.

We have synthetic motor oil.
We cloned a sheep.
We have tofu.
We have Red Bull.
We have spray tan.

Why don't we have synthetic gasoline?  Is anyone even working on this?  Everything is just molecules put together.  How hard can it be--for someone with a degree and training in chemistry--to synthesize gasoline?

There is some work to make gasoline with bacteria.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/genetically-modified-organism-can-turn-carbon-dioxide-into-fuel-0821.html

[Raza]

There is some work to make gasoline with bacteria.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/genetically-modified-organism-can-turn-carbon-dioxide-into-fuel-0821.html

Problem solved.  Now Tesla, Fisker, the Prius, and the Insight can die the deaths they so richly deserve.

[2o6]

Totally.  It'll just be a link to my blog.

Featuring a reworked press release

[GoCougs]

There sure are a bunch of negative Nancy's on this board.

I'm a fan of any company that tries to develop new and interesting products. They had a somewhat rocky start, but they have a new model now and you guys already say it'll fail, for no apparent reason. Cougs, go back to general talk if you're just going to complain about loans. The the government granted the loans, so that's what you should be complaining about, instead of just hoping the company will fail.

It's relevant in that if but for artificial sources Tesla never would have seen the light of day.

[hotrodalex]

It's relevant in that if but for artificial sources Tesla never would have seen the light of day.

And GM, Ford, and Chrysler would be dying right along with it.

[TurboDan]

I'd much rather support a start-up company with fresh ideas than an established company that can only think inside the box.

But you guys are right. I'm dumb for supporting and having confidence in the little guy. I should just go buy a Prius or Volt.

I agree. At this point, Tesla is making the only electric car that looks like an actual car that people would drive, has the power Americans really want and can drive farther than a block without running out of power. I'm rooting for them.

What are our electric alternatives? The odd looking Volt? The odder looking hippie-mobile Leaf? Give me a break.

[hotrodalex]

How does one support a start-up company without presumably buying its products and implicitly condoning the thievery of $500MM in tax dollars?

I'll buy a t-shirt.

[Raza]

I agree. At this point, Tesla is making the only electric car that looks like an actual car that people would drive, has the power Americans really want and can drive farther than a block without running out of power. I'm rooting for them.

What are our electric alternatives? The odd looking Volt? The odder looking hippie-mobile Leaf? Give me a break.

The Volt is the most viable hybrid or electric car on the market today and the closest thing to usable and practical electric technology that exists. 

What's the range on a Tesla?  160 miles?  300 miles?  The range on a Volt?  40 miles until it starts using gas to charge the battery.  What's the fill-up time on a Tesla?  Funny, on the website, they give you best case scenario range, but not how long it will take to recharge.

Full electric is lunacy. 

[ergodic]

If you put making money immediately as a goal for any business, we won't be able to innovate ever. Every innovation is a risk, and making money is postponed from the time the product is released. Yes, for electric cars this gap is big, that's why there are subsidies. Yes, this is not pure market, but newsflash for Cougs - it never is. I think people need to plan on longer horizons, taking risks. And they do. If they weren't, this county wouldn't exist.

There are many positive reviews of electric cars/bikes. People praise the handling, the packaging, the drivetrain characteristics (instant torks etc.). I can't believe people who think reciprocating pistons compressing dead dinosaurs is the top of the automotive evolution.