U.S. has fewer cars per person than Europe, but still uses twice as much energy

[SVT666]

More energy consumption = more happiness, more freedom, more opportunity, more prosperity.

I agree 100%.

[cawimmer430]

I wasn't trying to stir up a fight. 


Fact is, here most people live within easy reach of their workplace and those that live further away have reliable access through excellent public transportation like trains. I was just saying that if I had to work somewhere far away and drive there and back home every week, I'd rather move closer to my workplace. It's more relaxing and it'll keep my gas costs low. Many European cities are automatically discouraging driving by car through the lack of parking spaces or parking spaces with a maximum two hour parking limit. Parking spaces are a commodity in major cities here.

And air conditioning is almost unknown here. We don't have deserts in Europe (unless you count the warm climate of Spain, Portugal, Andorra, Southern France, Italy etc.) but even there homes with air conditioning are rare. In fact many businesses only have one room which is air conditioned. When I had several internships with medium to large businesses in my youth (including two Mercedes' dealerships, one of them in Munich) they really only had one room which was air conditioned - and that was the meeting room where business could be discussed with guests. The big bosses and top managers had offices that had no A/C. A/Cs are expensive here despite electricity prices being fairly priced.

I have no A/C in my apartment. But all it takes is good planning. Open the windows up at night to let the cool air in, close them in the morning to keep the cool air inside. Works for me - and I don't need an A/C. An A/C just means higher electricity costs.

[veeman]

I wasn't trying to stir up a fight. 

I have no A/C in my apartment. But all it takes is good planning. Open the windows up at night to let the cool air in, close them in the morning to keep the cool air inside. Works for me - and I don't need an A/C. An A/C just means higher electricity costs.

its like a fridge.  100 years ago no one missed them.  now its a necessity.  once you experience something better, its hard to go back. 

if you experience air conditioning not as a luxury but as a routine aspect of life, you will miss it.  because no matter how you spin it, air conditioning is better than no air conditioning when its hot and humid without a breeze.

ultimately you want to be as comfortable as possible with the least carbon footprint.   

[cawimmer430]

its like a fridge.  100 years ago no one missed them.  now its a necessity.  once you experience something better, its hard to go back. 

if you experience air conditioning not as a luxury but as a routine aspect of life, you will miss it.  because no matter how you spin it, air conditioning is better than no air conditioning when its hot and humid without a breeze.

ultimately you want to be as comfortable as possible with the least carbon footprint.   

I actually grew up in the Philippines which means I grew up with A/C. A/Cs were very common in that country. Every building and home literally had several. I spent the summers and winters in Germany and I never felt the need for an A/C while in Germany during the summers.

Now I have been living permanently in Germany since 2001 and have never seen the need for an A/C. Yes, there are days when it's really hot here during the summers and where an A/C would be nice, but it'll be one of those things where I'll use the A/C 30 days out of 365 days - it's not worth it. I manage fine without an A/C. All I do is go back into my apartment, shower and wear light clothes and I can survive the day without A/C. I also open my windows in the late afternoons (7 PM+) when it's cooler to allow the cool air to enter my apartment. In the mornings I close the windows and the cool air stays inside throughout the day. I have double-glazed-windows and curtains which also help keep the heat out and the cool air inside.

I can understand that somebody living in Las Vegas for example requires an A/C - it's very hot there all year round.

[GoCougs]

I actually grew up in the Philippines which means I grew up with A/C. A/Cs were very common in that country. Every building and home literally had several. I spent the summers and winters in Germany and I never felt the need for an A/C while in Germany during the summers.

Now I have been living permanently in Germany since 2001 and have never seen the need for an A/C. Yes, there are days when it's really hot here during the summers and where an A/C would be nice, but it'll be one of those things where I'll use the A/C 30 days out of 365 days - it's not worth it. I manage fine without an A/C. All I do is go back into my apartment, shower and wear light clothes and I can survive the day without A/C. I also open my windows in the late afternoons (7 PM+) when it's cooler to allow the cool air to enter my apartment. In the mornings I close the windows and the cool air stays inside throughout the day. I have double-glazed-windows and curtains which also help keep the heat out and the cool air inside.

I can understand that somebody living in Las Vegas for example requires an A/C - it's very hot there all year round.

That you "manage" fine doesn't mean others can; the elderly, the sick, the very young, etc. You're also forgetting that the majority of the US lives in quite/very humid areas (Midwest, South East, North East, South) where the temperature/heat index remains fairly high at night. Add those folks to those who live in the South West and CA, and pretty much most of the US lives in hot areas whereby AC provides a significant benefit; beyond improving health for some, one can also count as benefits improving productivity (at home and work) and overall reduction of stress.

[CJ]

A few weeks ago in Norman, we had temperatures of 113 degrees F.  Not having air conditioning in those temperatures quickly becomes a hazard to your health and well-being. 

[NomisR]

Just looking at this board alone, multiple people owns multiple cars and this applies to the general population.  Unless you live in crappy cities like NYC, practically everyone needs and has a car for one reason or another.  On the other hand, there's a larger portion of Europeans who don't have cars or a license for that matter plus higher taxes and cost of ownership in Europe, so I don't see how that can be true. 

Also, I don't want to live 10 mins away from work, that'll land me in the ghettos, or in a cramped crappy overpriced beach city. 

[Soup DeVille]

This will again come as a complete surprise for most of you guys, but surprise, surprise, Europe is very diverse - even more so than the USA! (believe it or not). When I lived in Prague, everything over 1 mile was far too long for "a decent taco". However, when I lived in the Northern, most remote part of Norway - 200 miles for "a decent taco" could easily happen.

I do have Norway on my wish list of places to visit someday.

[Soup DeVille]

Their trepidation is understandable. The roads are packed: 60 million people squeezed into an island that would comfortably fit into many US states, & a short 200 mile journey can take hours.

A few years ago I drove from North Yorkshire to London with wife & kids in my Dad's car. It was an all-day marathon of jams & queues. I was a wreck by the end of it.

its actually slightly larger than half of California, and closest to Kansas in size.

[Raza]

I wasn't trying to stir up a fight. 


Fact is, here most people live within easy reach of their workplace

Our country is the size of your continent.

and those that live further away have reliable access through excellent public transportation like trains.

Our country is the size of your continent and not as densely populated.

I was just saying that if I had to work somewhere far away and drive there and back home every week, I'd rather move closer to my workplace. It's more relaxing and it'll keep my gas costs low.

And I'm saying that's not an option for most people.  I could live near work, in a shitty area, or live in a nice area and commute.  I can afford to live near work, but not everyone can.

Many European cities are automatically discouraging driving by car through the lack of parking spaces or parking spaces with a maximum two hour parking limit. Parking spaces are a commodity in major cities here.

Our country is the size of your continent and not nearly as densely populated.

And air conditioning is almost unknown here. We don't have deserts in Europe (unless you count the warm climate of Spain, Portugal, Andorra, Southern France, Italy etc.) but even there homes with air conditioning are rare. In fact many businesses only have one room which is air conditioned. When I had several internships with medium to large businesses in my youth (including two Mercedes' dealerships, one of them in Munich) they really only had one room which was air conditioned - and that was the meeting room where business could be discussed with guests. The big bosses and top managers had offices that had no A/C. A/Cs are expensive here despite electricity prices being fairly priced.

I have no A/C in my apartment. But all it takes is good planning. Open the windows up at night to let the cool air in, close them in the morning to keep the cool air inside. Works for me - and I don't need an A/C. An A/C just means higher electricity costs.

Sounds like what hell is like. 

[Northlands]

Our country is the size of your continent.

Our country is the size of your continent and not as densely populated.

And I'm saying that's not an option for most people.  I could live near work, in a shitty area, or live in a nice area and commute.  I can afford to live near work, but not everyone can.

Our country is the size of your continent and not nearly as densely populated.

Sounds like what hell is like. 

I don't think the average person from Europe has any idea what kind of space we enjoy in the New World, unless they've traveled here.  The article kind of stinks of people just wanting to bag on the U.S. for using more energy, without going into any kind of meaningful detail. 

[shp4man]

How many regular guys drive crew cab heavy duty pickups that get 12 miles to a gallon over there in Europe? Ya, that's what I thought.

[Soup DeVille]

How many regular guys drive crew cab heavy duty pickups that get 12 miles to a gallon over there in Europe? Ya, that's what I thought.

Funny things is: a lot of the European emigrants I work with do exactly that.

[shp4man]

I've noticed them getting less popular these days, though. 

[Soup DeVille]

I've noticed them getting less popular these days, though. 

Well, that's to be expected.

I just find it funny that you read so much written by Europeans about all that's wrong with the US, but when a lot of them (no, not all) do move here, they seem to embrace all those things with gusto.

[66vette]

This article is pathetic.  Whoever wrote it didn't even bother to check the basic facts.
Here are the raw numbers directly from the US department of energy:  http://cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb31/Edition31_Chapter03.pdf Look at Table 3.4 on page 6.

2009 US Cars and Trucks
Cars=134,880,000 
Trucks=110,561,000 
Total=248,460,000

Using a US population of roughly 310 million here are the number of vehicles per 1000 people:
Cars=435
Trucks=357
Total=801

So obviously the number the article is using only includes CARS.  Light trucks, SUVs and vans are not included.  Kinda a big part of the US auto market to exclude.

For Christ's sake, just a quick simple check on wikipedia would have clued them in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_per_capita#cite_note-USeDataBook-1
US number of motor vehicles per 1000 people = 812. 

Hell just look at the plot of vehicles vs per capita consumption and the US is waaaay out in right field.  Obviously something is wrong with the data (here: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/its-official-western-europeans-have-more-cars-per-person-than-americans/261108/#comment-619190681)

The really funny thing is people questioned the numbers on the articles web page and here's the authors response:

"Update: Some confusion in the comments about what kinds of vehicles are counted in the rankings. I respond below, but the gist is that this data includes all "passenger vehicles," which means cars, pickup trucks, SUVs, and minibuses. It does not include commercial freight trucks or buses with over nine seats, both of which the U.S. has a lot of, but which tend to be owned by businesses rather than individuals."

Still can't get the basic facts right.

[TurboDan]

I agree 100%.

Same here. Today I did a 20 mile off-road trip in my LR2. Tomorrow, I might go fishing in my 3mpg boat. Life guzzling gas is pretty damn fun. 

[hotrodalex]

This article is pathetic.  Whoever wrote it didn't even bother to check the basic facts.
Here are the raw numbers directly from the US department of energy:  http://cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb31/Edition31_Chapter03.pdf Look at Table 3.4 on page 6.

2009 US Cars and Trucks
Cars=134,880,000 
Trucks=110,561,000 
Total=248,460,000

Using a US population of roughly 310 million here are the number of vehicles per 1000 people:
Cars=435
Trucks=357
Total=801

So obviously the number the article is using only includes CARS.  Light trucks, SUVs and vans are not included.  Kinda a big part of the US auto market to exclude.

For Christ's sake, just a quick simple check on wikipedia would have clued them in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_per_capita#cite_note-USeDataBook-1
US number of motor vehicles per 1000 people = 812. 

Hell just look at the plot of vehicles vs per capita consumption and the US is waaaay out in right field.  Obviously something is wrong with the data (here: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/its-official-western-europeans-have-more-cars-per-person-than-americans/261108/#comment-619190681)

The really funny thing is people questioned the numbers on the articles web page and here's the authors response:

"Update: Some confusion in the comments about what kinds of vehicles are counted in the rankings. I respond below, but the gist is that this data includes all "passenger vehicles," which means cars, pickup trucks, SUVs, and minibuses. It does not include commercial freight trucks or buses with over nine seats, both of which the U.S. has a lot of, but which tend to be owned by businesses rather than individuals."

Still can't get the basic facts right.

Welcome, by the way.

[SVT666]

Today I did something that most Europeans would have a conniption fit over.  I drove an 110 km south on a two lane road with a million tourists, crossed the US border, pick up a shipment of boat parts for my boat (saved $380 by doing this), and turned around and drove all the way back in 3 hours.  Tomorrow I'm getting on my boat with my family at 11:00 am and we will spend the day burning through a tank of fuel while water skiing and drinking beer.

[Raza]

This article is pathetic.  Whoever wrote it didn't even bother to check the basic facts.
Here are the raw numbers directly from the US department of energy:  http://cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb31/Edition31_Chapter03.pdf Look at Table 3.4 on page 6.

2009 US Cars and Trucks
Cars=134,880,000 
Trucks=110,561,000 
Total=248,460,000

Using a US population of roughly 310 million here are the number of vehicles per 1000 people:
Cars=435
Trucks=357
Total=801

So obviously the number the article is using only includes CARS.  Light trucks, SUVs and vans are not included.  Kinda a big part of the US auto market to exclude.

For Christ's sake, just a quick simple check on wikipedia would have clued them in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_per_capita#cite_note-USeDataBook-1
US number of motor vehicles per 1000 people = 812. 

Hell just look at the plot of vehicles vs per capita consumption and the US is waaaay out in right field.  Obviously something is wrong with the data (here: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/its-official-western-europeans-have-more-cars-per-person-than-americans/261108/#comment-619190681)

The really funny thing is people questioned the numbers on the articles web page and here's the authors response:

"Update: Some confusion in the comments about what kinds of vehicles are counted in the rankings. I respond below, but the gist is that this data includes all "passenger vehicles," which means cars, pickup trucks, SUVs, and minibuses. It does not include commercial freight trucks or buses with over nine seats, both of which the U.S. has a lot of, but which tend to be owned by businesses rather than individuals."

Still can't get the basic facts right.

Welcome?

[Raza]

Today I did something that most Europeans would have a conniption fit over.  I drove an 110 km south on a two lane road with a million tourists, crossed the US border, pick up a shipment of boat parts for my boat (saved $380 by doing this), and turned around and drove all the way back in 3 hours.  Tomorrow I'm getting on my boat with my family at 11:00 am and we will spend the day burning through a tank of fuel while water skiing and drinking beer.

I accelerated past 100mph in a gear other than 6th multiple times.  Shame, shame.

[AutobahnSHO]

And air conditioning is almost unknown here.

One of the very unfortunate features of Europe. I was shocked, honestly- that a "civilized" land wouldn't have a/c. But they turn all the lights off in the daytime to save power too. It's dark in some of those big buildings!!

[Colonel Cadillac]

More energy consumption = more happiness, more freedom, more opportunity, more prosperity.

That's going to be an issue

[mzziaz]

I do have Norway on my wish list of places to visit someday.

I'd happily show you around my parts

[cawimmer430]

Today I did something that most Europeans would have a conniption fit over.  I drove an 110 km south on a two lane road with a million tourists, crossed the US border, pick up a shipment of boat parts for my boat (saved $380 by doing this), and turned around and drove all the way back in 3 hours.  Tomorrow I'm getting on my boat with my family at 11:00 am and we will spend the day burning through a tank of fuel while water skiing and drinking beer.

A few years ago I did something that most Americans can only dream about in the land of the free: I drove those 650 km on the Autobahn A6 from Frankfurt to Munich (no speed limits on that Autobahn) at 210 km/h (winter tires) the whole time refueling a mere four times.  

[cawimmer430]

One of the very unfortunate features of Europe. I was shocked, honestly- that a "civilized" land wouldn't have a/c. But they turn all the lights off in the daytime to save power too. It's dark in some of those big buildings!!

I've never seen it as a problem to be honest. The overall costs of such a unit here outweigh the benefits. Right now it's 28 degrees C outside and inside my apartment it's cool - because I had my windows open during the night. Simple and cheap solution. 

Also, most Europeans don't see the need for an A/C. Remember, ten years ago A/C was still optional on most cars, even luxury cars. I spent a few weeks with some relatives at the Lago di Garda in Italy. They live in a luxury condominium - no A/C.

[TBR]

28 Celsius (82 F) is not very hot at all (in fact, I normally set my A/C to 27/28). It pretty much stays above 32 (90) here during the summer and is normally above 38 (100) or even 41 (105) during the afternoon.

[280Z Turbo]

Man made global warming is probably real and there probably is a finite supply of oil left in the ground, but it was worth it. No matter what happens.

Also, I don't think GW is going to be as bad as people say. If it just makes my grass die in the summer and corn prices go up, I can live with that.

[AutobahnSHO]

A few years ago I did something that most Americans can only dream about in the land of the free: I drove those 650 km on the Autobahn A6 from Frankfurt to Munich (no speed limits on that Autobahn) at 210 km/h (winter tires) the whole time refueling a mere four times. 

Pfft. I did 215km/h.   

(j/k, was a rental Van- only filled up once but averaged about 140km/h)

[Northlands]

I've never seen it as a problem to be honest. The overall costs of such a unit here outweigh the benefits. Right now it's 28 degrees C outside and inside my apartment it's cool - because I had my windows open during the night. Simple and cheap solution. 

Also, most Europeans don't see the need for an A/C. Remember, ten years ago A/C was still optional on most cars, even luxury cars. I spent a few weeks with some relatives at the Lago di Garda in Italy. They live in a luxury condominium - no A/C.

Tell that to the Spanish. Don't they still take afternoon siestas because of the heat?