On the All New MY13 Toyota Rav4 and its Stiff Competition

[2o6]

That's not true.  2o6 loves every new shitty little subcompact. 

If you actually read what I wrote, you'd find that I really don't.





A


Guys, this isn't the production vehicle

[ifcar]

That's not true.  2o6 loves every new shitty little subcompact. 

Hey, it's as reasonable of a response as hating every affordable economy car.

[Raza]

Hey, it's as reasonable of a response as hating every affordable economy car.

No it isn't.  Every affordable compact car is a reminder that you could be doing better.  Loving them is settling for a life slightly below mediocre.  They are abominable.  For the most part, anyway.

[Lebowski]

It looks like a fucking hatchback now.  It doesn't look like a crossover anymore.

Isn't that what crossovers are?

[2o6]

No it isn't.  Every affordable compact car is a reminder that you could be doing better.  Loving them is settling for a life slightly below mediocre.  They are abominable.  For the most part, anyway.

Do you not realize that you drive one every day?

[ifcar]

No it isn't.  Every affordable compact car is a reminder that you could be doing better.  Loving them is settling for a life slightly below mediocre.  They are abominable.  For the most part, anyway.

What an elitist prick. And I say that in only the nicest way.

[TurboDan]

What an elitist prick. And I say that in only the nicest way.

I don't think he's an elitist prick if he focuses that energy on getting ahead and reaching his goals. Raza's not lazy, and he's not going out and buying cars he can't afford purely for image purposes. Let's be honest: few people would drive a bare-bones mainstream subcompact if they could afford something nicer (even if it's not necessarily larger). Some people are content with a low-paying career and others are not. I'm in Raza's camp on this one.

[2o6]

I don't think he's an elitist prick if he focuses that energy on getting ahead and reaching his goals. Raza's not lazy, and he's not going out and buying cars he can't afford purely for image purposes. Let's be honest: few people would drive a bare-bones mainstream subcompact if they could afford something nicer (even if it's not necessarily larger). Some people are content with a low-paying career and others are not. I'm in Raza's camp on this one.

I wouldn't call them "Insufferable". Modern cars are very refined.

[ifcar]

I don't think he's an elitist prick if he focuses that energy on getting ahead and reaching his goals. Raza's not lazy, and he's not going out and buying cars he can't afford purely for image purposes. Let's be honest: few people would drive a bare-bones mainstream subcompact if they could afford something nicer (even if it's not necessarily larger). Some people are content with a low-paying career and others are not. I'm in Raza's camp on this one.

I don't assume at all that most people buy the fanciest car they can possibly afford, or even close.

[TurboDan]

I don't assume at all that most people buy the fanciest car they can possibly afford, or even close.

Me neither. But while it's not "politically correct" to dump on someone's car, let's be honest – very few people would buy a base model mainstream subcompact if they had the means to avoid buying such a vehicle.

It has nothing to do with buying the absolute maximum one can afford. For example, me personally, I'll always buy used cars because I put 20-25K miles per year on anything I drive. It's stupid for me to buy a new car because I can buy a 2-3 year old car for half its MSRP with only 18 months' worth of the mileage I'd put on it. See: LR2. At the same time, just because I won't go out and saddle myself with a payment on a $40K vehicle doesn't mean I'm going to buy the cheapest POS money can buy. That's what these subcompacts are. Save the 500 Abarth, mainstream subcompacts are the bottom of the barrel as far as cars go.

[2o6]

Me neither. But while it's not "politically correct" to dump on someone's car, let's be honest ? very few people would buy a base model mainstream subcompact if they had the means to avoid buying such a vehicle.

It has nothing to do with buying the absolute maximum one can afford. For example, me personally, I'll always buy used cars because I put 20-25K miles per year on anything I drive. It's stupid for me to buy a new car because I can buy a 2-3 year old car for half its MSRP with only 18 months' worth of the mileage I'd put on it. See: LR2. At the same time, just because I won't go out and saddle myself with a payment on a $40K vehicle doesn't mean I'm going to buy the cheapest POS money can buy. That's what these subcompacts are. Save the 500 Abarth, mainstream subcompacts are the bottom of the barrel as far as cars go.

Judging from the increased quality of these models, I don't think that's true anymore. Transaction prices of small cars are at an all time high. Then you throw in other variables (fuel economy, reliability, interior space and many others) and buying a new cheap car doesn't seem so stupid.



I know my next car will likely be new, or nearly new.

[280Z Turbo]

No it isn't.  Every affordable compact car is a reminder that you could be doing better.  Loving them is settling for a life slightly below mediocre.  They are abominable.  For the most part, anyway.

Mini Cooper S? Mazdaspeed 3? Focus ST? GTI?

What matters is what puts a smile on your face. True, a Versa probably won't do that, but a Mini will.

[2o6]

Anyways, Guys, I have OFFICIAL PHOTOS of the new 2013 Rav4. Toyota is taking the popular model RETRO. Also, Toyota plans to compete with the new wildfire success Murano Cabrio with a new convertible bodystyle my inside source at Toyota says.

[TurboDan]

Mini Cooper S? Mazdaspeed 3? Focus ST? GTI?

What matters is what puts a smile on your face. True, a Versa probably won't do that, but a Mini will.

But we're (I'm sure Raza would agree) not talking about any of those cars. Save the Cooper S, I wouldn't consider any of those subcompacts, and all of them are relatively expensive performance editions anyway. I'm talking about your base model B segment vehicles like the Fiesta, Yaris, Aveo/Sonic, etc. Mostly they're sold as either starter cars (high school, college students), or to people without much money. I stand by my assertion that most people who have the means to buy a better car, do. They're tiny penalty boxes with crap interiors and odd exterior styling that sell because they're the lowest price new vehicles on the lot.

And size has nothing to do with it. I don't lump Minis, 1ers or (to an extent) even the 500 in with the cheap subcompact crowd.

[2o6]

But we're (I'm sure Raza would agree) not talking about any of those cars. Save the Cooper S, I wouldn't consider any of those subcompacts, and all of them are relatively expensive performance editions anyway. I'm talking about your base model B segment vehicles like the Fiesta, Yaris, Aveo/Sonic, etc. Mostly they're sold as either starter cars (high school, college students), or to people without much money. I stand by my assertion that most people who have the means to buy a better car, do.

And size has nothing to do with it. I don't lump Minis, 1ers or (to an extent) even the 500 in with the cheap subcompact crowd.

500 and Mini (especially 500) aren't super nice inside (at least to the level in which a traditional B-segment looks trashy).



And a Mazda 2 would put a smile on my face (considering it's super cheap). Even with only 100HP, it's a riot to drive.

[TurboDan]

And a Mazda 2 would put a smile on my face (considering it's super cheap). Even with only 100HP, it's a riot to drive.

That's fine that you like it. But if you were making $100K a year, would you realistically be looking at a Mazda2?

(Granted, this is being addressed to 2o6, so he very well might...)

[2o6]

That's fine that it would. But if you were making $100K a year, would you realistically be looking at a Mazda2?

(Granted, this is being addressed to 2o6, so he very well might...)

Who would? (I would likely still drive something similar, but nicer and quieter.  My job has made me realize how loud Yaris really is)



Of the same token, you do realize that very few cheap cars are being sold at bottom dollar? A 10K new Versa "exists" but it's nearly impossible to find. Then, you have other manufacturers jam packing their small cars with lots of content, which means basic cars aren't really basic anymore. The Spark I drove last week starts at 13K, and it comes with power everything, a decent stereo and air conditioning.

[TurboDan]

I honestly didn't even know they sold any vehicles without power windows/locks and A/C anymore. If they do, I haven't seen one in years. The last vehicle without power windows I was in was a 1997 Dodge Caravan owned by my aunt.

[2o6]

I honestly didn't even know they sold any vehicles without power windows/locks and A/C anymore. If they do, I haven't seen one in years. The last vehicle without power windows I was in was a 1997 Dodge Caravan owned by my aunt.

10K Versa comes with manual everything, and doesn't have a radio.

[sportyaccordy]

Nobody here likes the way anything new looks.

Thats not true

I will have to get back to you on a new design I have 100% liked though

[giant_mtb]

I honestly didn't even know they sold any vehicles without power windows/locks and A/C anymore. If they do, I haven't seen one in years. The last vehicle without power windows I was in was a 1997 Dodge Caravan owned by my aunt.

I detailed a 2010 Corolla this summer that didn't have power locks or power windows.  It did have A/C, though.

[Raza]

Do you not realize that you drive one every day?

It's a premium compact car.  Totally different.   

And you know I meant subcompact. 

[Raza]

What an elitist prick. And I say that in only the nicest way.

I can live with that. 

But is it so evil to want to do better?

[Raza]

I don't assume at all that most people buy the fanciest car they can possibly afford, or even close.

No, that's true.  I do know managing directors that drive Accords or big trucks, but they're not driving around in 1.2L Fiestas. 

[Raza]

Mini Cooper S? Mazdaspeed 3? Focus ST? GTI?

What matters is what puts a smile on your face. True, a Versa probably won't do that, but a Mini will.

Those are premium compact cars (like a 3 series), and not the types of cars to which I was referring.

[ifcar]

I think ordinary people who had their standards met by best-selling compact cars are now having those standards met by an improving batch of subcompacts. Buying a Fit or Fiesta isn't like buying a Geo Metro. Plus there are the people who just prefer the feel of a smaller car, either for urban convenience or for a lighter weight.

[Raza]

I think ordinary people who had their standards met by best-selling compact cars are now having those standards met by an improving batch of subcompacts. Buying a Fit or Fiesta isn't like buying a Geo Metro. Plus there are the people who just prefer the feel of a smaller car, either for urban convenience or for a lighter weight.

I'm with you on the small cars thing.  I like small cars.  That's why I'm all about the premium compacts. 

Not one of these dirt cheap huge headlights cars.

[2o6]

I'm with you on the small cars thing.  I like small cars.  That's why I'm all about the premium compacts. 

Not one of these dirt cheap huge headlights cars.

Those dirt cheap huge headlight cars are.in the same class as the ones you speak of.

[2o6]

It's a premium compact car.  Totally different.   



And you know I meant subcompact. 

Jetta isn't premium. It goes straight up against the Focus, Mazda 3, Cruze eat.

[280Z Turbo]

Jetta isn't premium. It goes straight up against the Focus, Mazda 3, Cruze eat.

The old one was, especially with the turbo motor.