Snow tires?

[Cookie Monster]

No way that dedicated snows perform better than summer or all seasons on bare pavement in freezing temps. Dedicated snows suck on bare pavement in any temp...

I've read that the snows compound doesn't freeze as easily so it grips better than A/S or summer tires that end up freezing.

[SVT666]

I've read that the snows compound doesn't freeze as easily so it grips better than A/S or summer tires that end up freezing.

True.

[hotrodalex]

I've read that the snows compound doesn't freeze as easily so it grips better than A/S or summer tires that end up freezing.

Yeah, but then they get mushy when it warms up.

I just need to do some research to find a tire that has a decent compound for cold temperatures but doesn't completely suck when it's not snowing.

[MX793]

No way that dedicated snows perform better than summer or all seasons on bare pavement in freezing temps. Dedicated snows suck on bare pavement in any temp...

The blockier tread pattern tends to dull lateral responsiveness, but the rubber compound offers more grip in freezing temperatures.  I put my snows on in December.  We hadn't really gotten any snow at that point, but temperatures had fallen into the mid to high 30s.  My street connects to a fairly busy divided 4 lane, so I have to jump out quickly sometimes to pull into traffic.  I was lighting up my performance all-seasons if I tried to take off with any aggressiveness to pull into traffic.  I switched to the snows and a similarly aggressive launch did not result in wheelspin.

[GoCougs]

I have lots and lots of miles on dedicated snows. They universally suck on bare dry pavement for traction and braking; much worse than all-seasons; even in well below freezing temps. Further, every single test I can find on the 'Nets says this as well, such as the test from C&D.

For dry pavement at 23^o F...

Summer (Michelin Pilot Sport A/S):
60 - 0 braking: 128'
300' skid pad: 0.89 g

All season (Michelin Pilot HX MXM4):
60 - 0 braking: 130'
300' skid pad: 0.89 g

Winter hi-po studless (Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3):
60 - 0 braking: 141'
300' skid pad: 0.87 g

Winter aggressive studless (Michelin X-Ice Xi2):
60 - 0 braking: 158'
300' skid pad: 0.80 g

[Cookie Monster]

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S are All Seasons, not summers...

[Raza]

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S are All Seasons, not summers...

False.  The AS stands for All Summer. 

[S204STi]

[r0tor]

My summer tires do get slick as hell in the cold... Despite what Cougar Reports says

[GoCougs]

You guys still have your winters on? They are borderline dangerous on bare roads of any temp.

[Soup DeVille]

You guys still have your winters on? They are borderline dangerous on bare roads of any temp.

Oh no. I is going to die.

[MX793]

I have lots and lots of miles on dedicated snows. They universally suck on bare dry pavement for traction and braking; much worse than all-seasons; even in well below freezing temps. Further, every single test I can find on the 'Nets says this as well, such as the test from C&D.

For dry pavement at 23^o F...

Summer (Michelin Pilot Sport A/S):
60 - 0 braking: 128'
300' skid pad: 0.89 g

All season (Michelin Pilot HX MXM4):
60 - 0 braking: 130'
300' skid pad: 0.89 g

Winter hi-po studless (Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3):
60 - 0 braking: 141'
300' skid pad: 0.87 g

Winter aggressive studless (Michelin X-Ice Xi2):
60 - 0 braking: 158'
300' skid pad: 0.80 g

There's also this test in which on warm, wet pavement dedicated snows outperformed all-seasons (though not in warm and dry).  No test on cold but dry pavement, unfortunately.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/a-tire-for-all-seasons-feature

[S204STi]

My continentals served me well for two years. 5/32" or less remain, mostly due to the cheyenne commute, but I'll buy a new set of the same next year. The Pirelli summers are on now.

[GoCougs]

There's also this test in which on warm, wet pavement dedicated snows outperformed all-seasons (though not in warm and dry).  No test on cold but dry pavement, unfortunately.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/a-tire-for-all-seasons-feature

That wasn't "wet" pavement - that was standing water:



That is a test of is hydroplaning and water channeling - dedicated snows generally have a deeper tread and usually a directional pattern to channel slush, so it's not surprising they do better in standing water.

The C&D test I posted above also has wet testing too - dedicated snows do worse, with the most aggressive dedicated snow performing absolutely abysmally on wet pavement. For 23 ^oF...

Summer (Michelin Pilot Sport A/S):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 139'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 128'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.88 g
dry 300' skid pad: 0.89 g

All season (Michelin Pilot HX MXM4):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 140'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 130'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.84 g
dry 300' skid pad: 0.89 g

Winter hi-po studless (Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 145'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 141'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.83 g
dry 300' skid pad: 0.87 g

Winter aggressive studless (Michelin X-Ice Xi2):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 174'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 158'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.75 g
dry skid pad: 0.80 g

Dedicated snows are their most dangerous on (truly) wet pavement.

[Raza]

I went all winter on summer tires in a RWD sports car three inches off the ground.   

[Soup DeVille]

I went all winter on summer tires in a RWD sports car three inches off the ground.   

You died!

[MX793]

That wasn't "wet" pavement - that was standing water:



That is a test of is hydroplaning and water channeling - dedicated snows generally have a deeper tread and usually a directional pattern to channel slush, so it's not surprising they do better in standing water.

The C&D test I posted above also has wet testing too - dedicated snows do worse, with the most aggressive dedicated snow performing absolutely abysmally on wet pavement. For 23 ^oF...

Summer (Michelin Pilot Sport A/S):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 139'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 128'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.88 g
dry 300' skid pad: 0.89 g

All season (Michelin Pilot HX MXM4):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 140'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 130'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.84 g
dry 300' skid pad: 0.89 g

Winter hi-po studless (Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 145'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 141'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.83 g
dry 300' skid pad: 0.87 g

Winter aggressive studless (Michelin X-Ice Xi2):
wet 60 - 0 braking: 174'
dry 60 - 0 braking: 158'
wet 300' skid pad: 0.75 g
dry skid pad: 0.80 g

Dedicated snows are their most dangerous on (truly) wet pavement.

Pilot Sport A/S is an all season tire, and unless they were spraying the ground with salt water, the asphalt was not 23F and wet.  Where I'm from, when water is on 23F asphalt, it turns into a hockey rink.

[Soup DeVille]

I think water freezes at the same temp everywhere, last I checked.

[GoCougs]

No, no, and no.

Jesus, guys, c'mon, think about it. 23^o F and wet asphalt happens all the time

Dedicated snow tires suck on bare roads of any temp, wet or dry.

[MX793]

No, no, and no.

Jesus, guys, c'mon, think about it. 23^o F and wet asphalt happens all the time

Dedicated snow tires suck on bare roads of any temp, wet or dry.

Wet asphalt happens at 23F when the sun is out and the road surface, which is dark colored, heats up to well above freezing.  That or there's salt in the water.

[S204STi]

I don't fucking buy snow tires because of their performance on dry roads... for christ' sake...

[giant_mtb]

SNOW TIRES.

That is all.

[MX793]

That wasn't "wet" pavement - that was standing water:



That is a test of is hydroplaning and water channeling - dedicated snows generally have a deeper tread and usually a directional pattern to channel slush, so it's not surprising they do better in standing water.

My snows (which aren't even performance snows) came with 10/32" of tread, which is the same as most any other passenger car tire (including the summer performance tires on my Mustang). 

As to standing water with the Caddy test, C&D test braking distance, lateral grip (on a 200 ft skid pad) and did an auto-x course.  The winter tire was better than the all season on warm wet pavement in all three.  Only the braking test would have involved speeds at which those tires might hydroplane based on the amount of water on the ground in the pictures (I owned Eagle RS-As, when new they wouldn't hydroplane at speeds <50 mph that I ever experienced).  1g on a 200 ft skidpad equates to 38 mph.  The ~.7-.75 g these cars were pulling would be closer to 32-33 mph.  And an auto-x course generally is set up to keep speeds under 60 mph on the longest straights, with slaloms and corners tight enough that you don't get above 35 in those section.

[93JC]

Another winter over, another winter I drove with all-seasons and didn't die. Or hit anything. Or even lose control for a moment.

[SVT666]

Another winter over, another winter I drove with all-seasons and didn't die. Or hit anything. Or even lose control for a moment.

BULLSHIT!!!

Winter isn't over in Calgary until June 13th.

[Cookie Monster]

I went all winter on summer tires in a RWD sports car three inches off the ground.   

Yeah, because you parked it in a garage and used your brother's Audi.

[SJ_GTI]

I loved my winter tires while living in Canada. But I think they actually touched snow a total of 2 times this year and drove on below freezing roads maybe a dozen times. Definitely felt "wrong" having them, although I mainly have them for when the shit really hits the fan. I have been on summer tires in the snow and they were really, really bad (had trouble stopping in below freezing temps w/ snow on the ground).

So using my summer tires year round is definitely not going to happen. However, what I am considering is switching to all-season tires as my "winter" tire. What do you guys think? Keep in mind I am in South Jersey, about half between Philly and AC (ie: close enough to the shore that a lot of the time when it is snowing in Philly, it is raining where I am at). It has to be a pretty solid snow storm to get any accumulation where I am at.

[Raza]

Yeah, because you parked it in a garage and used your brother's Audi.

Still had to drive it in the snow sometimes. 

[Raza]

I loved my winter tires while living in Canada. But I think they actually touched snow a total of 2 times this year and drove on below freezing roads maybe a dozen times. Definitely felt "wrong" having them, although I mainly have them for when the shit really hits the fan. I have been on summer tires in the snow and they were really, really bad (had trouble stopping in below freezing temps w/ snow on the ground).

So using my summer tires year round is definitely not going to happen. However, what I am considering is switching to all-season tires as my "winter" tire. What do you guys think? Keep in mind I am in South Jersey, about half between Philly and AC (ie: close enough to the shore that a lot of the time when it is snowing in Philly, it is raining where I am at). It has to be a pretty solid snow storm to get any accumulation where I am at.

You're fine on all seasons.  I've my brother's S4 in pretty decent snow on all seasons and didn't have any issues; TC and ABS didn't even come on. 

[giant_mtb]

Another winter over, another winter I drove with all-seasons and didn't die. Or hit anything. Or even lose control for a moment.

Right? It seems like those that seriously don't even need snow tires are the ones that piss and moan about how badly they think they need them for the three times they get snow each winter.