2o6 Flip Car thread!

[HurricaneSteve]

I don't doubt your knowledge and experience but I have owned exactly one car whose engine died and that was a 1978 Ford Fairmont that I owned when I knew nothing about cars and was due to neglect. Chances are if an engine goes, it's due to owner negligence (or abuse) which tells me there are likely other issues lurking. And for the record I'm not dissing your choice to replace the motor--if I was in the business of flipping cars, that's what I would do, but I'm just saying I wouldn't trust a car that had major components replaced. New master cylinder and brake lines or a power window that's wonky? Sure, no problem. Blown motor and/or transmission at 100K? Hard pass.

....why? I'm doing literally anything any used car lot would do, and arguably better. Do you want me to spend 3x the cash on rebuilding a worn out motor, new rings, rod bearings, et al? And spend money on the labor to not only take the engine out, take the motor apart, send assorted parts out to a shop, and put it back together?

Or, would you rather drop in a low-mile equivalent motor from a running insurance wrecked car, one that's got a warranty, and have the car back on the road in a day, versus several weeks on the above.

Every fucking used car ever likely has had issues or replacement parts. I've found that learning about cars and how they work has allayed any fears. A replacement engine or transmission would not deter me; hell, it's not impossible to get a CPO used car with a replacement engine. (I've definitely seen new cars grenade themselves due to manufacturing defects, to get replacement parts and then sold new like nothing has happened)


Eh, the being creative is the best way to lose money.

[HurricaneSteve]

There are different levels of salvage titled cars but yes as a general rule of thumb I would avoid those like the plague (unless it's super cheap and being used to occupy a parking spot).

I will say, I don't touch salvage title vehicles (except that Jetta guy where I didn't read the title).

A motor blowing up isn't really a safety concern. Possible structural damage and bending/repairing frame and sheetmetal damage is more complicated and more at risk for both me and the buyer. It's very easy for a salvage repair to look ok, only to learn the hard way that it could get someone killed.

[2o6]

Other issues like what, though? Cars aren't boxes of witchcraft - especially the basic mainstream cars I sell. What else could go wrong? Transmission? Suspension members? Sometimes these cars are neglected, but honest to goodness, sometime shit just breaks because it's not well made.


Also, I'd be far more weary of a car that has a new master cylinder and brake lines - sounds like it's got serious rust issues.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Also...it's a ten year old Mazda with nearly 100k miles. I feel like you're kind of a dick if you're complaining about a potential replacement engine or transmission with a car that has that kind of mileage and age. I'm not selling $10000 cars. I'm selling >$5000 cars.

Yeah! In that price range you cant be picky!

[AutobahnSHO]

I buy all used cheap cars. I drive them for a remarkably long time. I've made bad decisions a couple times (should have trusted my gut to walk away) but I'll keep buying cheap used.

[12,000 RPM]

I think once you are settled you should treat yourself. Get the ND you deserve

[HurricaneSteve]

You nailed it, transmission, suspension and who knows what else in the electrical, exhaust, etc? How much do you spend taking cars to a mechanic to diagnose things? Sometimes things break due to poor quality, yes, but I'd much rather take my chances on a used car with a more known history that didn't have any major components replaced than one that did. Sure, things happen but sometimes anecdotal evidence matters and in my lifetime, it was incredibly rare for something to go wrong when people did what they were supposed to.

Again I'm not criticizing your line of work, I'm sure you have a number of happy customers who bought from you but all I'm saying is that if I was looking for a used car for around 5 grand, I would not trust a flipped car as much as I would one from a first or second owner.

Other issues like what, though? Cars aren't boxes of witchcraft - especially the basic mainstream cars I sell. What else could go wrong? Transmission? Suspension members? Sometimes these cars are neglected, but honest to goodness, sometime shit just breaks because it's not well made.


Also, I'd be far more weary of a car that has a new master cylinder and brake lines - sounds like it's got serious rust issues.

[HurricaneSteve]

Actually out in the Bay Area you can find quite a few rust free cars with 100K miles or less for around 5 grand. How much would something like this fetch for where y'all are at?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/d/1999-toyota-camry-le-v6-75-miles/6925575363.html

In case it gets sold it's a 1999 Camry LE V6 with 75K miles for $3000. Original owner too!

Yeah! In that price range you cant be picky!

[Eye of the Tiger]

If you have a cheap mechanic like me, it's not that expensive to flip a total pile of crap. I work on a crap ton of Dodge Malibus and Chevy Avengers that come in totally neglected and beat to hell. Add a few wheel bearings, sway bar links, and timing chains, then pour a bucket of Armour All on it and sell it for $4995.

[HurricaneSteve]

Admittedly I don't know any mechanics personally and my knowledge/ability is pretty minimal (brakes, plugs, oil, tranny fluid, window regulators, etc) so if it's something I can't figure out within an hour or two I just take it to the nearest shop. I'm sure the profit margins can be pretty solid though.

If you have a cheap mechanic like me, it's not that expensive to flip a total pile of crap. I work on a crap ton of Dodge Malibus and Chevy Avengers that come in totally neglected and beat to hell. Add a few wheel bearings, sway bar links, and timing chains, then pour a bucket of Armour All on it and sell it for $4995.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I don't have overhead except for tools and basic supplies. I work in the dealer group's shop as an independent contractor, amd generally at a flat rate per job. For example, I just did oil change, front pads/rotors, some light bulbs, and a GPS/kill box on a Fjord Escape. It took me two-hours and cost them $140 in labor. Well, I get half of that in my pocket, because the other half goes to "renting the shop, etc." ... that's just how the gig works ... anyway, it's still $35/hour for some really easy work, so whatever.

[2o6]

You nailed it, transmission, suspension and who knows what else in the electrical, exhaust, etc? How much do you spend taking cars to a mechanic to diagnose things? Sometimes things break due to poor quality, yes, but I'd much rather take my chances on a used car with a more known history that didn't have any major components replaced than one that did. Sure, things happen but sometimes anecdotal evidence matters and in my lifetime, it was incredibly rare for something to go wrong when people did what they were supposed to.

Again I'm not criticizing your line of work, I'm sure you have a number of happy customers who bought from you but all I'm saying is that if I was looking for a used car for around 5 grand, I would not trust a flipped car as much as I would one from a first or second owner.

I buy cars from people who do take decent care of their vehicles, and shit still breaks. Cars aren't rocket science, and even if a motor/trans is replace does not mean other things like suspension or electrical issues are more liable to break on my flip car versus one that's been "taken care of". They're machines, and they have points of failure and wear related issues. To me, it's like saying you wouldn't buy a used phone that's had a replacement touch screen because you think the processor might be shot.

Those things just don't have correlation. Especially since I'm usually dealing with mainstream economy cars, and those cars generally will eventually need work anyways due to age/wear. Once again, it's a $5000 car. If a car is in good working order, holds all fluids, and runs well at the time of purchase, who cares if it's had work done in the past?

Honestly, you sound like a buyer who pissed me the fuck off awhile back; I was selling a car and he really was upset at me that I had replaced and lubricated the tie rod ends, and had replaced pieces of the exhaust.

I've worked at several dealers over my life - I will just say this, the "little old lady" stereotype of someone maintaining their car is bunk. Personal trade ins were generally always sent to auction due to simply not being in as good of shape or desirable as lease turn ins or ex rental cars. (Not to say those cars were bad, just not up to the standard of a an "A" level car).

Actually out in the Bay Area you can find quite a few rust free cars with 100K miles or less for around 5 grand. How much would something like this fetch for where y'all are at?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/d/1999-toyota-camry-le-v6-75-miles/6925575363.html

In case it gets sold it's a 1999 Camry LE V6 with 75K miles for $3000. Original owner too!

It would go for what it would out there, the same here. It's a 20 year old Toyota. There's limited worth despite miles and condition.

[HurricaneSteve]

Actually I would never buy a used phone because I have no idea how many times they dropped it, how much water or moisture got into it, if they tried to modify it, what kind of apps were run, etc. But if I had to, I would trust the person who minimized drops, put a screen protector and case on, and is upgrading because their contract is up or got a smoking deal on a new one as opposed to one who buys and sells phones for a living. That's not a knock on you specifically, but your business is reliant on buy low, fix low and sell for as high as possible, right?

The thing is most decent economy cars, if taken care of (and driven) properly, should never need an engine or transmission replacement. If the previous owner took care of the car, then there's a stronger likelihood that they didn't drive it like a maniac and took it in for service on time. And if I'm taking a chance on a used car, I'm going to go with the one a person owned for multiple years and made an attempt to take care of since it was likely their primary vehicle and it had to be in good shape versus the one someone threw a few parts into it and tried to sell it as quickly as possible within a few weeks.

Sorry a potential buyer pissed you off but honestly I don't blame him. If I'm looking at a used car and the seller is upset that I'm asking so many questions or being picky, I would walk since there's always a chance that they're hiding something. Not saying that you were, but a lot of used car buying guides would point out the same thing and even for a car, 5 grand is not a small amount of money.

What was the average age of a personal trade in? Most lease turn ins are within 2-3 years and if there is any damage on them, isn't the customer responsible? I would also say the same of rental cars--their business relies on cars that look presentable and are less prone to breakdown so I would imagine they maintain their vehicles as well as possible.

I buy cars from people who do take decent care of their vehicles, and shit still breaks. Cars aren't rocket science, and even if a motor/trans is replace does not mean other things like suspension or electrical issues are more liable to break on my flip car versus one that's been "taken care of". They're machines, and they have points of failure and wear related issues. To me, it's like saying you wouldn't buy a used phone that's had a replacement touch screen because you think the processor might be shot.

Those things just don't have correlation. Especially since I'm usually dealing with mainstream economy cars, and those cars generally will eventually need work anyways due to age/wear. Once again, it's a $5000 car. If a car is in good working order, holds all fluids, and runs well at the time of purchase, who cares if it's had work done in the past?

Honestly, you sound like a buyer who pissed me the fuck off awhile back; I was selling a car and he really was upset at me that I had replaced and lubricated the tie rod ends, and had replaced pieces of the exhaust.

I've worked at several dealers over my life - I will just say this, the "little old lady" stereotype of someone maintaining their car is bunk. Personal trade ins were generally always sent to auction due to simply not being in as good of shape or desirable as lease turn ins or ex rental cars. (Not to say those cars were bad, just not up to the standard of a an "A" level car).
It would go for what it would out there, the same here. It's a 20 year old Toyota. There's limited worth despite miles and condition.

[2o6]

You honestly sound like you aren't that familiar with how cars work. And also what was the point of your initial post, then?


Tie rod ends are wear items, and the car was a 1998 Honda from a rust-prone state. Being upset at a car for having replacement parts when it has nearly 200k is silly. There are plenty of older high miles cars that simply just give up and have critical parts wear out; sometimes due to neglect, but more often than not shit just isn't built well and made to last.


Used car buying guides and the whole automotive journalism segment as a whole also don't have much experience with mechanical repairs, and it shows in most buyers guides and articles written by places like Jalopnik, and even car and driver. You're asking questions about shit that kind of doesn't matter. These are cheap cars; the vast majority of the public doesn't care about past history, just if it's in good shape and runs well at the moment of sale.

Not to mention, most used car lots in many states are legally prohibited from giving you service records (at least those that wouldn't show up on, say a car fax report or any vin check) because they generally contain personal information.


————-


Anyways, I'm done with that conversation. I just bought the engine for the Mazda today, and it should likely be running in a few days.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You should put a turbo kit on the engine and sell it as a replica Mazdaspeede. It won't add any resale value, but it would be cool.

[2o6]

To do:

- wheel alignment

- AC recharge

[mzziaz]

Nice car

[FoMoJo]

Someone should snap it up pretty quick.

[2o6]

Someone should snap it up pretty quick.

Lol no


I finally sold it today.


$4000, profit of around $1400.

[FoMoJo]

Lol no


I finally sold it today.


$4000, profit of around $1400.

That's pretty good.

[2o6]

It's been a long time, but I'm back.


COVID has had me scared to buy anything too expensive or risky, but the car market is HOT. I spent $650 and bought this 2000 Toyota Echo Automatic with a seized alternator. Only has 131K miles, and although Echos don't have a hell of a lot of value, for $650 not much ventured or gained, right?

This woman bought this car NEW.

[SJ_GTI]

How much are you hoping to sell it for once it is fixed...?

[Eye of the Tiger]

$2269

[FoMoJo]

Looks pretty good for 20 years old.

[CaminoRacer]

A headlight polish kit could help raise the perceived value a lot.

I thought about just buying new lenses for my Mazda6 but found out I'd have to remove the front bumper to swap them out. Too much work.

[Speed_Racer]

A headlight polish kit could help raise the perceived value a lot.

I thought about just buying new lenses for my Mazda6 but found out I'd have to remove the front bumper to swap them out. Too much work.

That and some back to black stuff for the plastic trim would sharpen it up nicely.

[Eye of the Tiger]

A headlight polish kit could help raise the perceived value a lot.

I thought about just buying new lenses for my Mazda6 but found out I'd have to remove the front bumper to swap them out. Too much work.

Pffffffff ... just spray WD40 on it

[Morris Minor]

It's been a long time, but I'm back.


COVID has had me scared to buy anything too expensive or risky, but the car market is HOT. I spent $650 and bought this 2000 Toyota Echo Automatic with a seized alternator. Only has 131K miles, and although Echos don't have a hell of a lot of value, for $650 not much ventured or gained, right?

This woman bought this car NEW.

Good to see you back in the flippin' game. I bet it will clean up really well.
I find cleaning/fixing/detailing really therapeutic.

[2o6]

How much are you hoping to sell it for once it is fixed...?

Any decent running car is worth at least $1500-2000. Echo parts are dirt cheap, and this is the 5th car I've owned with this engine. They're easy to work on.

Good to see you back in the flippin' game. I bet it will clean up really well.
I find cleaning/fixing/detailing really therapeutic.

Looks pretty good for 20 years old.

Thanks! 

[2o6]

You ever talk to an elderly person whose is losing their concept of time? The couple I bought the car from said "Oh we took it to DC last year!" and the oil change sticker sticker said the car's last oil change was 2/23/2015. It still had 2K miles to go on it's oil change.

The tires are from 2008. The gas is basically varnish.


Still, I was able to pull the accessory belt and get the car started. It runs generally fine; there's a slight miss, but once again, this car has been sitting five years. I think some new plugs and other stuff will fix it up.


Cost Analysis:

The purchase price, tax, title, plates: $769

Front pads and rotors: $55

Spark plugs: $9 Guy gave me a box marked "echo stuff" and in it I found a cabin air filter, and four unopened iridium NGK spark plugs.

Used alternator: $45

Accessory belt: $3

Wiper Blades: $9

Air filter: $3

Cabin Air filter: $3

Cheapo tires because these tires are from Obama's first term: ~$170, mounted and balanced



Total invested: $1066, before fluids. I plan on doing all fluids - but I can get toyota fluids on the cheap. My roomie is a hoarder for his gen 1 xB.


I MIGHT buy a cheapo DUAL brand car radio, but not sure yet. I'm also missing a front hubcap.

https://youtu.be/dOoNCqdggyc