C/D Comparo: Accord, Camry, Fusion, Sonata

[ifcar]

I didn't scan these, found them on C/D, where it was asked that they not be posted except in links. For your viewing pleasure:

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[BMWDave]

The fusion did very well...

[Raghavan]

The fusion did very well...

Not as well as the ACcord!

[SaltyDog]

Geez, they squeeze out some incredible 0-60 times.

[Raghavan]

I'm not reading em till i get my own issure.

[thewizard16]

The only thing I can't figure out is how road noise and tire noise are fine in the Accord but an annoyance in the others. Is it simply because it's more sporty? I think that's a little questionable.

[TBR]

I can't wait to read this, it ought to be interesting to see what lame excuse they have for putting the Sonata in 3rd, their review of it was absolutely glowing. I am seriously thinking about not renewing my subscription.

[ifcar]

It was only 3rd by 3 points behind the Fusion. As you should expect, styling/attitude made the largest difference. They also criticized the lateral support of the front seats, and preferred the Fusion's ride and handling.

[crv16]

I can't wait to read this, it ought to be interesting to see what lame excuse they have for putting the Sonata in 3rd, their review of it was absolutely glowing. I am seriously thinking about not renewing my subscription.

The point spread between first and fourth was so small that you could consider them all "winners".

[ifcar]

The Accord won by a clear 16-point margin. The others were within 6 points of each other.  

[crv16]

The Accord won by a clear 16-point margin. The others were within 6 points of each other.

If this were a test at school:

Accord 88.4%
Fusion 82%
Sonata 80.8%
Camry 79.6%

I guess there is a bigger gap than I originally thought.

[SJ_GTI]

Jeebus the Accord is expensive. 29k and change?!? I'll take a TSX or Saab 9-3 for that money thank you.

I don't see how anyone would pay more then 25k for any of these cars.

[TBR]

That is why I think the Hyundai should have won.  

[SaltyDog]

I know it's been said before, but I think it's stupid to rank cars based on numerical scores.

[ifcar]

TBR, C/D isn't going to go for the best value, they're going to go for the car that they think drives the best, in virtually every circumstance. Though I do think that inadequate representation was given to the Sonata's value quotient.

[ifcar]

The Accord won by a clear 16-point margin. The others were within 6 points of each other.

If this were a test at school:

Accord 88.4%
Fusion 82%
Sonata 80.8%
Camry 79.6%

I guess there is a bigger gap than I originally thought.

It's a very large gap compared to C/D's other comparisons, usually the top two or three cars are neck-and-neck.

[TBR]

I still think they put way to little influence on price, it accounts for only an eighth of the total points IIRC (compared to a third for R&T. they have the right idea).  

[ifcar]

I know it's been said before, but I think it's stupid to rank cars based on numerical scores.

I'll always agree. The GTHI can't compensate fully, and gives people an easy opening to shout "bias!".

[ifcar]

I still think they put way to little influence on price, it accounts for only an eighth of the total points IIRC (compared to a third for R&T. they have the right idea).

Both R/T and C/D have the problem of relative price, despite their respective weightings. There just isn't enough of a difference accounted for between the prices, a 15/20 for the $30K Accord and Camry a 20/20 for a Sonata that's $6,000 less.

Give the cars on the high end of that range a failing grade in that area, down to maybe 5/20, and the cheapest cars a score closer to or at 20/20, and value is better compensated for.  

[The Bartender]

I know it's been said before, but I think it's stupid to rank cars based on numerical scores.

I'll always agree. The GTHI can't compensate fully, and gives people an easy opening to shout "bias!".

Having discussed the GTHI factor in person with a few of the editorial staff, I understand it a little better, but still, it does reek of bias.  (Although that's actually sort of the point of GTHI.)

Also true that price doesn't seem to be factored in heavy enough.  I damn well expect a $30K Accord to be a better car in almost all respects than a $24K Sonata.  As much as I would never buy one, I think Hyundai still doesn't get the respect it deserves for building reliable vehicles at great prices.

[thewizard16]

Honestly, I think they are a little too forgiving on any departments that the Accord lacks in. It's not that much better than any of these other cars in any overall way I can think of.  

[JYODER240]

Honestly, I think they are a little too forgiving on any departments that the Accord lacks in. It's not that much better than any of these other cars in any overall way I can think of.

There definently are flaws, but I think its one of the better grading systems out there.

[Cobra93]

Keep in mind that at C/D, GTHI means Gee, This Honda's Invincible!

Seriously, the GTHI factor is total BS. Dropping it out and giving a little more emphasis to value would tighten up the rankings quite a bit. If you want to go ahead and jump to the conclusion that the Honda won't get incentives but some of the others will. that makes the price difference even more enticing. I know I'm biased, but given the existing $4,200 difference between the Accord and the Fusion, it would be Fusion all the way.

[Raza]

Jeebus the Accord is expensive. 29k and change?!? I'll take a TSX or Saab 9-3 for that money thank you.

I don't see how anyone would pay more then 25k for any of these cars.

Compared to a TSX, the V6 Accord offers many advantages, such as size and power.  As far as refinement and pedigree, the TSX is a better choice.

[The Bartender]

Keep in mind that at C/D, GTHI means Gee, This Honda's Invincible!

Seriously, the GTHI factor is total BS. Dropping it out and giving a little more emphasis to value would tighten up the rankings quite a bit. If you want to go ahead and jump to the conclusion that the Honda won't get incentives but some of the others will. that makes the price difference even more enticing. I know I'm biased, but given the existing $4,200 difference between the Accord and the Fusion, it would be Fusion all the way.

Actually, as explained to me by one of the editors, and I can't remember which one uttered the comment (although I seem to recall that it was Pat Bedard, could have been Csaba, though) the GTHI can be boiled down to a simple questions:

"If the 2 (or 3, or however many) cars in question were sitting outside on the parking lot with the keys in them and full tanks of gas, which car would you personally take for a ride, assuming you got first pick?"

So, for example, if the Accord, Sonata and Fusion were sitting outside, which would you DRIVE? (not personally BUY, just which would you chose to DRIVE for the day or night)  Given those choices, I'd be hard pressed not to pick the Honda, even given my preferences towards American cars.  That's the way the GTHI works.  So, yes, it is a bias issue, but it's a bias issue they have partially quantified.  Do the C & D guys lean towards Hondas and BMW's?  Yes, so those cars get better GTHI scores.  But given the above choices, I think many (not all, but many) people would opt for such cars to DRIVE (again, not to buy, just to DRIVE.)

[Cobra93]

Keep in mind that at C/D, GTHI means Gee, This Honda's Invincible!

Seriously, the GTHI factor is total BS. Dropping it out and giving a little more emphasis to value would tighten up the rankings quite a bit. If you want to go ahead and jump to the conclusion that the Honda won't get incentives but some of the others will. that makes the price difference even more enticing. I know I'm biased, but given the existing $4,200 difference between the Accord and the Fusion, it would be Fusion all the way.

Actually, as explained to me by one of the editors, and I can't remember which one uttered the comment (although I seem to recall that it was Pat Bedard, could have been Csaba, though) the GTHI can be boiled down to a simple questions:

"If the 2 (or 3, or however many) cars in question were sitting outside on the parking lot with the keys in them and full tanks of gas, which car would you personally take for a ride, assuming you got first pick?"

So, for example, if the Accord, Sonata and Fusion were sitting outside, which would you DRIVE? (not personally BUY, just which would you chose to DRIVE for the day or night)  Given those choices, I'd be hard pressed not to pick the Honda, even given my preferences towards American cars.  That's the way the GTHI works.  So, yes, it is a bias issue, but it's a bias issue they have partially quantified.  Do the C & D guys lean towards Hondas and BMW's?  Yes, so those cars get better GTHI scores.  But given the above choices, I think many (not all, but many) people would opt for such cars to DRIVE (again, not to buy, just to DRIVE.)

Given that explanation, that would make the Fusion  a lock on the GTHI factor. After all, the Accord's been around in it's same basic guise for years. So wouldn't you pick the new, highly touted Fusion? Obviously C/D wouldn't. Anyone else probably would. B)  

[ifcar]

GTHI isn't just about styling or newness, it's simply personal preference expressed numerically. We see in the other parts of the chart how they liked each bit of the car, and GTHI expresses what the editors think about each vehicle's combination of traits. (IMO, that's how a comparison should be determined in the first place.)

[The Bartender]

Keep in mind that at C/D, GTHI means Gee, This Honda's Invincible!

Seriously, the GTHI factor is total BS. Dropping it out and giving a little more emphasis to value would tighten up the rankings quite a bit. If you want to go ahead and jump to the conclusion that the Honda won't get incentives but some of the others will. that makes the price difference even more enticing. I know I'm biased, but given the existing $4,200 difference between the Accord and the Fusion, it would be Fusion all the way.

Actually, as explained to me by one of the editors, and I can't remember which one uttered the comment (although I seem to recall that it was Pat Bedard, could have been Csaba, though) the GTHI can be boiled down to a simple questions:

"If the 2 (or 3, or however many) cars in question were sitting outside on the parking lot with the keys in them and full tanks of gas, which car would you personally take for a ride, assuming you got first pick?"

So, for example, if the Accord, Sonata and Fusion were sitting outside, which would you DRIVE? (not personally BUY, just which would you chose to DRIVE for the day or night)  Given those choices, I'd be hard pressed not to pick the Honda, even given my preferences towards American cars.  That's the way the GTHI works.  So, yes, it is a bias issue, but it's a bias issue they have partially quantified.  Do the C & D guys lean towards Hondas and BMW's?  Yes, so those cars get better GTHI scores.  But given the above choices, I think many (not all, but many) people would opt for such cars to DRIVE (again, not to buy, just to DRIVE.)

Given that explanation, that would make the Fusion  a lock on the GTHI factor. After all, the Accord's been around in it's same basic guise for years. So wouldn't you pick the new, highly touted Fusion? Obviously C/D wouldn't. Anyone else probably would. B)

No, I wouldn't pick the Fusion.  The Accord's sales figures show that a lot of other people wouldn't either.

I can't even explain in complete factual detail why I would most likely take the Accord, but given the choice of the 4 cars, my preference would run:

Accord
Fusion
Camry
Sonata

Again, the GTHI is based more on which car would you drive RIGHT NOW, not which car would you buy, so even my comments about the Accord's sales aren't really pertinent.  It comes down to personal preference, as ifcar noted, which is a combination of objective data and "feel", not simply how the car feels while being operated but how each individual feels ABOUT that car.

For me, the Sonata is last because I can't complete shake my formative years in the '80s, during which time Hyundai's were not the last chocie in a car only because the Yugo was around, and GM still made Chevettes.

The Camry, while competent, is to me the definition of an appliance automobile.

The Fusion, while a very good car, is also an unknown quantity.  I want it to be good, and it has some of the technical details right.

Which leaves me at the Accord.  I respect Honda's engineering, even if I think their cars are a biot overrates at times, and they are often a little too cautious.  That said, if I were walking outside right now to drive a car, it would be a close call between the Accord and the Fusion, with the nod barely going to the Accord.

The explanation as I've given it also makes the Mustang GT/GTO comparison a little more understandable, as the Mustang won, even thought the GTO beat it in most performance categories, albeit at a higher sticker price.

If you knew that a Mustang GT and a GTO were sitting outside right now for you to drive, which would you pick.  As much as I love the GTO, other than it's exterior looks, I'd take the Mustang, simply because the "show off" factor is higher.

[TBR]

" No, I wouldn't pick the Fusion. The Accord's sales figures show that a lot of other people wouldn't either."

How do sales numbers show anything? The Fusion has barely been out for a month! (if that long)

[ifcar]

There's no way it's going to be outselling the Accord unless Ford decides to shovel vast numbers into fleets. I completely disagree with "high sales = good car" though.