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[cawimmer430]

I'd love to have a Crown Vic. They're so sexy. I saw one once in Munich which belonged to the US Embassy in Germany. It was hot. 

[SVT32V]

The only panther worth having was the mercury marauder.








With only 302 hp on tap it needed an SC (fortunately, plenty were available) to move that heavy 4200 lbs

[cawimmer430]

The only panther worth having was the mercury marauder.

Was this based on the Panther platform?



Then it's also worth having, especially because of the styling.  

[Klackamas]

I'd love to have a Crown Vic. They're so sexy. I saw one once in Munich which belonged to the US Embassy in Germany. It was hot.  

Well, you can have this one.

Just send me an E-Class in trade.  And fix the goofy column shifter, will ya?  

[GoCougs]

Well Northstar was its competition based on being modern v8s.

I disagree with the LSx being a better motor than 4V modulars (2V sucked) as can be shown comparing the 5.8SC versus ZL-1 and CTS-V engines.

Currently however, the coyote (loosely based on the mod) is a much better engine than the LSx or hemi engines.

The LSA (556 - 580 hp S/C 6.3L LS) is purposefully muted. Its foerbearer, the 638 hp LS9, is four years old and for being down ~5% in power it at least makes up for in a wider power band:

5.8 S/C:
662 hp @ 6250 rpm
632 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm

LS9:
638 hp @ 6500 rpm
604 lb-ft @ 3800 rpm

For all its tech the Coyote still can't outgun GM's pooprods. At best it has parity with the LS3 and loses out to the LS7.

[SVT666]

The LSA (556 - 580 hp S/C 6.3L LS) is purposefully muted. Its foerbearer, the 638 hp LS9, is four years old and for being down ~5% in power it at least makes up for in a wider power band:

5.8 S/C:
662 hp @ 6250 rpm
632 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm

LS9:
638 hp @ 6500 rpm
604 lb-ft @ 3800 rpm

For all its tech the Coyote still can't outgun GM's pooprods. At best it has parity with the LS3 and loses out to the LS7.

The Coyote is definitely the better engine.  It's the first time I've been able to honestly say that about the Ford V8 since the 302 vs. 305 of the 80s.

[GoCougs]

The Coyote is definitely the better engine.  It's the first time I've been able to honestly say that about the Ford V8 since the 302 vs. 305 of the 80s.

It's the better engine at... a wider power band. It gets complete overshadowed by the now quite-old LS7.

[Raza]

The only panther worth having was the mercury marauder.








With only 302 hp on tap it needed an SC (fortunately, plenty were available) to move that heavy 4200 lbs

Yeah, it was all looks (and even then, those looks are still 90% Grand Marquis) and nothing to back it up.  It was a heavy car, as you noted, that was down on power and saddled with a four speed transmission.  Put it on the road today and it would be outgunned in every way by most four cylinder family sedans.  Actually, it wasn't much faster than my old E320, which only had 221 horsepower.  And it would have been embarrassed by my Jetta--it would beat it off the line and stay in front through any corners.

Good looker, but I'd never want to own one. 

[MX793]

Yeah, it was all looks (and even then, those looks are still 90% Grand Marquis) and nothing to back it up.  It was a heavy car, as you noted, that was down on power and saddled with a four speed transmission.  Put it on the road today and it would be outgunned in every way by most four cylinder family sedans.  Actually, it wasn't much faster than my old E320, which only had 221 horsepower.  And it would have been embarrassed by my Jetta--it would beat it off the line and stay in front through any corners.

Good looker, but I'd never want to own one. 

Marauders had the 300 HP twin cam.

[MX793]

The Northstar wasn't it's chief rival.  The Chevy small block was it's chief rival, and the Chevy was a much better motor.

Mod V8 - Debuted in '91 and initially used in Lincoln products.
Northstar - Debuted in '91 and initially used in Cadillac products.

Both designed to be used in FWD and RWD applications.  The biggest difference was that the Mod eventually replaced Ford's pushrod V8s to become their workhorse V8 motor while GM continued to build the small block and only used the Northstar in their more luxurious automobile offerings.

[Raza]

Marauders had the 300 HP twin cam.

Yeah, I know.  And a 0-60 of about 7 seconds. 

[cawimmer430]

Well, you can have this one.

Just send me an E-Class in trade.  And fix the goofy column shifter, will ya?  

Sweet deal! I would use the Crown Vic to cruise and just feel and act cool.  

Which E-Class do you want? We have everything here from an E200 CDI to an E63 AMG.  

If you don't want a column shifter, you can get an E200 CDI, E220 CDI and E250 CDI with a manual transmission!

[SVT32V]

The LSA (556 - 580 hp S/C 6.3L LS) is purposefully muted. Its foerbearer, the 638 hp LS9, is four years old and for being down ~5% in power it at least makes up for in a wider power band:

5.8 S/C:
662 hp @ 6250 rpm
632 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm

LS9:
638 hp @ 6500 rpm
604 lb-ft @ 3800 rpm

For all its tech the Coyote still can't outgun GM's pooprods. At best it has parity with the LS3 and loses out to the LS7.

No the LSA is a seriously compromised engine, it cannot handle more boost in a warrantable manner. It lacks the forged internals to take more boost without holing a piston.

This is totally unlike the 5.8 SC with forged crank, rods and pistons as well as oil squirters to lube the wrist pins and keep the pistons cool. This engine can take significantly more boost unlike the LSA.

When all is said and done the LS9 is still weaker than the 5.8SC

LOL at the 7 liter LS7 with only 500 hp.

LOL at the gas guzzler tax on the inefficient LSA


I don't know where you are getting your info but all the camaro boards admit the 5.0 is stock for stock the faster car.

[GoCougs]

No the LSA is a seriously compromised engine, it cannot handle more boost in a warrantable manner. It lacks the forged internals to take more boost without holing a piston.

This is totally unlike the 5.8 SC with forged crank, rods and pistons as well as oil squirters to lube the wrist pins and keep the pistons cool. This engine can take significantly more boost unlike the LSA.

When all is said and done the LS9 is still weaker than the 5.8SC

LOL at the 7 liter LS7 with only 500 hp.

LOL at the gas guzzler tax on the inefficient LSA

The LSA is not compromised; it is a lesser version of a more potent engine. Boost upgrades on Ford's 5.8 S/C motor will void its warranty as well (Ford Performance does not offer one).

The LS9 is a bit weaker but one does have to 'lol' a bit at Ford's perpetual problem with under utilization of the OHC design; all those valves and cams for only ~5% more power.

Any indictment of the the LS7 is a stronger indictment against the Coyote considering the LS7 is the better motor.

The ZL-1 has shorter gearing and weighs 300 more pounds; naturally it will get lower MPG. That is not an indictment against the engine. 

20 years playing with OHC and Ford still can't outgun GM's pushrod anachronisms.

[SVT32V]

Serious failspin cougs

No the LSA is compromised, it is not forged like the LS9, that is why it can't take any more boost and is 100 hp less than the 5.8SC, even though it has 400 more CCs.

So a 100 hp weaker engine can't get better mileage, 14 city/19 hwy (ZL-1) vs 15 city/24 hwy (GT500) isn't explained away with 300 lbs.

Even worse in the 400 lb lighter ZR-1 (than the GT500), with the similarly (to the 5.8SC) powered LS9 only puts up 14 city/21 hwy. Not only is the ZR-1 400 lbs lighter but more aerodynamic.

The LS primitive pushrod motor is just not as efficient as the modern OHC ford at making power or fuel economy.

LOL at both the ZL-1 and the ZR-1 and their gas guzzler tax, govt motors (Obama approves) at its best.

[GoCougs]

You know your argument is dead when you carry on about MPG for 180 mph+ cars (notwithstanding ignoring car weight and gearing) and somehow debase it into Obama haterism.  

Given that Ford's brand new motors barely keep up, imagine what the picture looks like when the fairly old LSx motors are replaced beginning with the C7.

You Fordists have to get better at this.

[SVT32V]

Nice try at changing the topic, an admission that the archaic pushrods are simply outclassed in efficiency and power production.

Not only is the GT500 hands down faster than the ZL-1 it is as fast or faster than the uber light LS7 Z06, trap speeds and times are similar if not well into the GT500 corner.

LOL at the ignoring the 400 lb lighter ZR-1 is a gas guzzler, you can only do so much with ancient tech.

For that matter the 440 hp 5.0 absolutely owns the greater than 1 liter bigger LS3 and that is not even with the DI that GM hopes to save the C7 LS engine.

GMs large powerplants are simply outclassed by Ford, look at the truck engine lineups, the GMs pale in comparison.

[GoCougs]

Um, "better" is not misdirectionism, strawmanism, and mythism.

[giant_mtb]

Yeah, it was all looks (and even then, those looks are still 90% Grand Marquis) and nothing to back it up.  It was a heavy car, as you noted, that was down on power and saddled with a four speed transmission.  Put it on the road today and it would be outgunned in every way by most four cylinder family sedans.  Actually, it wasn't much faster than my old E320, which only had 221 horsepower.  And it would have been embarrassed by my Jetta--it would beat it off the line and stay in front through any corners.

Good looker, but I'd never want to own one. 

Yeah, and with one supercharger, it would eat all of those for breakfast and be more comfortable going down the road than anything you've ever even owned.

[TurboDan]

The biggest difference was that the Mod eventually replaced Ford's pushrod V8s to become their workhorse V8 motor while GM continued to build the small block and only used the Northstar in their more luxurious automobile offerings.

GM figured only luxury owners could afford its repair costs. 

[Raza]

Yeah, and with one supercharger, it would eat all of those for breakfast and be more comfortable going down the road than anything you've ever even owned.

And with an ECU tune, amphibious conversion, and missile launcher, my Passat would eat it alive and still be more comfortable for all passengers, on all Earth surfaces, and then fire a missile at the Marauder and blow it up.   

[giant_mtb]

And with an ECU tune, amphibious conversion, and missile launcher, my Passat would eat it alive and still be more comfortable for all passengers, on all Earth surfaces, and then fire a missile at the Marauder and blow it up.   

[S204STi]

TBH, the only V8s that are at all interesting to me are the ones made by BMW and MB.  Everything else is so primitive by comparison, it hurts.

[giant_mtb]

I think the fact that they remain so brash and primitive is what makes them interesting.  BMW and MB V8s are a bunch of complicated gobbledigook bullshit things that nobody really cares about 'cause the simplicity of a fuckin' crate Chevy is so much better for people that actually take interest in their engines (i.e., actually work on them).

[S204STi]

Yeah, I'm just more impressed by the design and elegance of the euro-motors.

[giant_mtb]

Well, yeah.  Technically, they're cool as hell.  But the fact that the "primitive" motors of Ford and GM still compete, work, and sell by the millions is more interesting to me than BMW gaining .03% efficiency because they fitted a new internal nipple to the bleed valve on the positron converter...

[S204STi]

Valid point.

[hotrodalex]

The fun part about your average small block or other pushrod engine is that it's easy to comprehend how it works. I guess a simple OHC engine isn't too bad either. But the modern engines put out by top-end companies start using technologies that get more complex and difficult to understand for the average user.

For example, I can take apart my El Camino and tell you almost exactly how each individual part works. Can't do that with a new BMW M5.

[cawimmer430]

Well, yeah.  Technically, they're cool as hell.  But the fact that the "primitive" motors of Ford and GM still compete, work, and sell by the millions is more interesting to me than BMW gaining .03% efficiency because they fitted a new internal nipple to the bleed valve on the positron converter...

0.3%? Dude, it's 0.31%! FACTS, baby, FACTS!

[Klackamas]

Sweet deal! I would use the Crown Vic to cruise and just feel and act cool.  

Which E-Class do you want? We have everything here from an E200 CDI to an E63 AMG.  

If you don't want a column shifter, you can get an E200 CDI, E220 CDI and E250 CDI with a manual transmission!

If I get my left knee fixed, I might just take you up on that.

Of course, you realize parking the Crown Vic anywhere in Germany will be a problem.

Scheiss angeber braucht drei Parkpl?tze!!!  


Edit: Has MB gotten rid of the column shifter for some models? I just did a build of a 2013 E-class coupe and cabriolet and it looks like the shifter is in the center from the interior shots. The sedan and wagon show them still on the column? Could this be? Did Stuttgart wake up?