328i vs ATS- the verdicts are trickling in

[hotrodalex]

Not necessarily. Even with MMI, and Command Audi, and Mercedes have gone back from digital screens with buttons, to analog solid metal rotary knobs for things like temp control. Good mechanical objects are also a luxury. Especially when every cheap entry phone now has a touch screen.

No advertising agency is going to say "This car has the best mechanical knobs and buttons around!". That won't sell cars. Technology sells luxury cars now.

[LonghornTX]

I have more experience with CUE and the competing systems than all of you.  To say that's the big fault of the car...?  Wow, this thing better win car of the year.  The CUE system is the best in the industry, IMO.  All done in house at GM too, which is the most impressive thing.

I have used CUE, and have a fair bit of experience with the segment. I personally don't find it that great, but ultimately that boils down to what you think is important in an infotainment system. In my opinion, uConnect blows it away in the category that matters (ease of use).

[LonghornTX]

I don't feel one way or another about the car itself; its the car in the context of market conditions and GM

And I never said its competitors are perfect, you're the one reaching. All I am saying is competition is STIFF, and this car is off the mark with some fundamental issues its competitors don't have. Do any of its competitors require you to go through menus to change fan speed?

I'm also saying GM was kind of stupid to dive into one of the most competitive segments with a car benchmarked on a model from 2 generations ago, and other features (engines etc) ranging from "just competitive" to "not good enough". Chassis is good, but powertrain, interface, pricing, practicality are all at best "OK". And this is supposed to be the car that steals market share from the 3 series?

I would drive it before you make such bold assertions. Most reviews have them pretty close, and most say pretty good things about it. The G has usually been bested by the 3 in most tests, yet it has always sold pretty well. Same with the B5/B6 A4's.

[TurboDan]

Not necessarily. Even with MMI, and Command Audi, and Mercedes have gone back from digital screens with buttons, to analog solid metal rotary knobs for things like temp control. Good mechanical objects are also a luxury. Especially when every cheap entry phone now has a touch screen.

The three cars I've had in the past decade (including my current one) have each had a different HVAC control system.

The Saab had fixed unit with a digital screen and you pressed physical up and down buttons to set a temperature. The VW had a regular old hot/cold turn knob. The Land Rover has what is described above ? high quality dual analog, rotary knobs to set the exact temperature (in 2 degree increments) for each zone.

I think the most straightforward and functional was the Saab's. Give me a dedicated unit with a digital screen and let me set the temperature. I don't want to have to cycle through menus to get to the temperature. I don't mind the touch screen having the nav and stereo combined, as well as certain functions of the vehicle, but I think HVAC should be separate.

[Galaxy]

No advertising agency is going to say "This car has the best mechanical knobs and buttons around!". That won't sell cars. Technology sells luxury cars now.

Technology sells, but not exclusively.

Why are more and more companies starting to make the NAV screen shamefully drive back into the dash at the touch of a button? Why can one spend thousands on leather and wood? Nothing to do with technology, and all about the look and the feel when you run your hands over it. A perfectly polished metal knob, that has a heavy weighted feel, just gives you a type of freudian pleasure that a touch screen can not give. That being said for detailed settings that todays complex cars offer, a  touch screen is simply the best user interface for many things requiring more than a twist, or a click. So even the RR Phantom will eventually get one, that quickly whisks away when not needed.

[sportyaccordy]

I think the most straightforward and functional was the Saab's. Give me a dedicated unit with a digital screen and let me set the temperature. I don't want to have to cycle through menus to get to the temperature. I don't mind the touch screen having the nav and stereo combined, as well as certain functions of the vehicle, but I think HVAC should be separate.

Yep

My dad's M45 has temp control, but IIRC you have to dig through menus to get to fan speed and direction/mode. And whenever you turn the car on, it defaults to all auto, which blasts the fans. I like to put the fans on minimum and set the temp to 75 degrees, so that's something I dislike about pretty much all automatic climate controls. As opposed to a good old hard analog switch set, which you can just set and forget.

Manufacturers are tripping over themselves for I don't know what. They need to put that $$$$ into making cars more fuel efficient and cheaper to run. Nobody gives a shit about these gimmicks; esp if they're not fleshed out (Ford Sync).

[MrH]

Every single study in the industry says the exact opposite.  These "gimmicks" are typically right at the top of the list, along with gas mileage, on things the customer wants in new cars.  You're just rambling on, presenting your opinion as fact.

[850CSi]

I haven't used most of the others, but iDrive is awesome. Used it extensively when I was in Europe. By the 3rd day could do a lot of things without looking at the screen. It was so good that I didn't have too much trouble getting used to the damn thing... in French.

[hotrodalex]

Every single study in the industry says the exact opposite.  These "gimmicks" are typically right at the top of the list, along with gas mileage, on things the customer wants in new cars. 

Yup. 20 year olds are all about gadgets - see the shrinking number of kids with cars, but the growing number of kids with iPads and Macbook Pros and Xboxes. It's all about technology, and car manufactures have to tap into that if they hope to attract that segment of the population.

[Laconian]

Oh boy, nothing like a touchscreen gadget to make the rest of the car seem obsolete after 8 months.

[AltinD]

Yep

My dad's M45 has temp control, but IIRC you have to dig through menus to get to fan speed and direction/mode. And whenever you turn the car on, it defaults to all auto, which blasts the fans. I like to put the fans on minimum and set the temp to 75 degrees, so that's something I dislike about pretty much all automatic climate controls. As opposed to a good old hard analog switch set, which you can just set and forget.

Manufacturers are tripping over themselves for I don't know what. They need to put that $$$$ into making cars more fuel efficient and cheaper to run. Nobody gives a shit about these gimmicks; esp if they're not fleshed out (Ford Sync).

I never understood why people "hate" so much the AUTO A/C ... I guess they're jusst impatient and don't wanna think about what's going on.

Igt is the best fucking thing. It blows at the beginning because the car interiours are hot, so it will get faster to the normal temperature and gradually slow down by itself till it settle to maintantance levels. It's absolutely fantastic and convinient. Just adjust the temperature you want and let it do the thing ....Oh, and don't fucking let the vents to blow tbhe air directly into your face and body, that's another idiotic mistake people do ... and then complaain the AUTO A/C sucks, actually you people suck for not knowing how to use things.

[MexicoCityM3]

I never understood why people "hate" so much the AUTO A/C ... I guess they're jusst impatient and don't wanna think about what's going on.

Igt is the best fucking thing. It blows at the beginning because the car interiours are hot, so it will get faster to the normal temperature and gradually slow down by itself till it settle to maintantance levels. It's absolutely fantastic and convinient. Just adjust the temperature you want and let it do the thing ....Oh, and don't fucking let the vents to blow tbhe air directly into your face and body, that's another idiotic mistake people do ... and then complaain the AUTO A/C sucks, actually you people suck for not knowing how to use things.

I guess in the desert when the heat is basically blazing every day you can just set it and forget it. But I find myself adjusting the "target" temp lots of times during a drive.

[AltinD]

^^ Why would you do that? Just leave it to Auto and it will take care ... they even compensate for the sun blasting through the windshield (yes they have a sensor on top of the dash). You probably just direct the airflow through your face/body, which is a huge mistake.

My vents points all up and away from me. Yes it blows loudly and fully at the beggining, but then it settles down.

BTW, here the temperatures during the year variate from near freezing sometime, to above 50 (Celcius)

[MexicoCityM3]

^^ Why would you do that? Just leave it to Auto and it will take care ... they even compensate for the sun blasting through the windshield (yes they have a sensor on top of the dash). You probably just direct the airflow through your face/body, which is a huge mistake.

My vents points all up and away from me. Yes it blows loudly and fully at the beggining, but then it settles down.

BTW, here the temperatures during the year variate from near freezing sometime, to above 50 (Celcius)

I do it because I feel cold (or hot)! Maybe the system in the Passat is better than what I have used?

Do you really just set and forget? And about the desert comment, I was just pulling your leg.

[MrH]

In the summer, the house is usually warmer.  So in the car, I want brutally cold AC.  And in the winter, burning hot heater

[sportyaccordy]

I never understood why people "hate" so much the AUTO A/C ... I guess they're jusst impatient and don't wanna think about what's going on.

Igt is the best fucking thing. It blows at the beginning because the car interiours are hot, so it will get faster to the normal temperature and gradually slow down by itself till it settle to maintantance levels. It's absolutely fantastic and convinient. Just adjust the temperature you want and let it do the thing ....Oh, and don't fucking let the vents to blow tbhe air directly into your face and body, that's another idiotic mistake people do ... and then complaain the AUTO A/C sucks, actually you people suck for not knowing how to use things.

Again not everyone lives in the desert

And if its 22 degrees outside... and I have the car set to 20 degrees... having the fan blast to cool it down 2 degrees is totally unnecessary (I used Celsius because I know you dont understand Fahrenheit)

Even in the dead of summer I don't put the fan on that high. It's uncomfortable and unnecessary. Only thing I would want on full blast, if equipped, is the seat cooler.

[850CSi]

Do you really just set and forget?

I do most of the time.

[MexicoCityM3]

Going back to the ATS vs 328i topic, I know that I'd like to test drive an ATS. I am intrigued enough.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I love automatic climate control. It's something else I will refuse to do without in my daily driver.

I also change the temp with some frequency; I'm not always in the same mood.

[Colonel Cadillac]

Also, I walk past a Cadillac dealership and the ATS looks really good. I sincerely hope the manual shifter issue I read about gets resolved, because I could definitely see myself in one.

Plus, everyone and their mother has a 3-series.

[MexicoCityM3]

Plus, everyone and their mother has a 3-series.

My mom had an A4.

[Cookie Monster]

I don't even know anyone with a 3 series.

[GoCougs]

Saw the C&D comparo. Something's goofy with the ATS. Notably better power/weight ratio + lower gearing yet a fair deal slower with almost a 10 sec lag 0-130...

[MexicoCityM3]

Saw the C&D comparo. Something's goofy with the ATS. Notably better power/weight ratio + lower gearing yet a fair deal slower with almost a 10 sec lag 0-130...

The BMW engine is underrated, I think that's the problem there.

[MX793]

The BMW engine is underrated, I think that's the problem there.

Or a lumpy/narrow powerband.  I'd be curious to see dyno plots of both cars.

[MexicoCityM3]

Or a lumpy/narrow powerband.  I'd be curious to see dyno plots of both cars.

Insideline has them up for both cars. The Caddy is less flat (torque) and runs out of steam earlier even though peak hp is very similar (BMW underrated).

[MX793]

Insideline has them up for both cars. The Caddy is less flat (torque) and runs out of steam earlier even though peak hp is very similar (BMW underrated).

But you don't spend all of your time at peak.  Average power over the curve, or at least the span of the curve you operate most at, is more important.

[ifcar]

I don't even know anyone with a 3 series.

I assume you're limiting yourself to real life and not counting the Spinners.

[GoCougs]

When on the boil both engines' power bands will be flat enough to not be an issue.

BMW has used SAE rating in the past; if the 328i's 240 hp is SAE it's gonna be 240 hp +/- 5 hp or less. But underrating would explain the gulf in acceleration.

[sportyaccordy]

Bimmer motor is more sophisticated. The twin scroll turbo alone could be the difference. Pretty sure the Caddy has a regular throttle body and at best cam phasing as opposed to the Bimmer's Valvetronic and double VANOS (do they even call it that anymore). Couple that with the Bimmer's better clutch + shifter, its literally a no brainer powertrain wise. Not even to say the Caddy lump isn't good. Just not good enough compared to the Bimmer. N20 twin power literally left no stone unturned and has the advantage of economy of scale to do so.