I wonder if things would be different if.....

[2o6]

What if GM didn't buy Daewoo?

They'd be bankrupt.


GMDAT manufacturers pretty much everything for that side of the world. Smartest buy by GM possibly ever; the factories they bought were state of the art, and dirt cheap. And not all the product that Daewoo was absolutely terrible; quick research shows that the well-reviewed Astra uses the GM T-body.....also shared with the Daewoo Cielo (Pontiac LeMans!)

It actually wan't really any bigger than the Camry.  1 cubic foot more passenger space volume than Camry, but one cubic foot less in trunk capacity, so same total interior volume.  Accord had the same passenger volume as Camry, but was down a couple of cubic feet in trunk space.

In 2002, it was. The new generation didn't come out until a year later.

[2o6]

As a former Peugeot owner, I've often wondered what if Peugeot had stuck it out and started to get serious about the North American market instead of pulling the plug in August of 1991.

1991:  Prior to pulling out, Peugeot had announced all-wheel-drive versions of the 8 valve 405 (405 DL X4 and 405 S X4) for the 1992 model year.  US Peugeot dealer's parts microfiche even listed these models, complete with part numbers.  A handful of 1992 models did make it over just prior to the pull-out announcement, but none were the X4 versions.  Peugeot also confirmed the 605 V6 automatic was going to be launched in mid-1992 as a 1993 model but, of course, this never happened.

Now lets get into the "What if?" .............

1992:  Instead of withdrawing from North America, Peugeot decided to redouble their efforts in the new world.  The 405 sedan and wagon continued to be offered in DL and S trim levels, with the option of all-wheel-drive (X4).  The 405 Mi16 sedan continued to be offered as well.  The 505 wagon was in it's final model year, offered with either 120 horsepower naturally aspirated 2.2 litre engine or the 160 horsepower 2.2 litre turbo.

1993:  605 3.0 V6 launched.  505 Wagon now discontinued.  405 was facelifted and a new 2.0 litre engine replaced the previous 1.9 litre unit.  Front airbags now became standard on all models to silence critics who complained of a lack of airbags in previous years.

1994:  Peugeot expands into a new (for America) market segment and brings the 306 hatchback with 1.8 and 2.0 engines to the New World.

1995:  Another expansion into a new segment sees the 806 minivan launched with 134 horsepower 2.0 engines  Both 5 speed manual or four speed automatic transmissions are offered.  306 cabriolet and sedan launched.  Now with a four-model range, Peugeot is better positioned to compete in the American market.

1996:  The 406 sedan replaces the 405 but the 405 wagon continues to be offered for one more year.  605 is facelifted.

1997:  The 406 wagon joins the sedan and replaces the 405 wagon.  Gorgeous Pinninfarina designed 406 Coupe introduced.

1998:  The 306 is facelifted and a wagon joins the line-up.

1999:  Final year for 306 sedan.  Final year for 605 sedan.

2000:  Final year for 806 minivan.  607 sedan is launched and replaces the 605.

2001:  Final year for 306 hatchback.

2002:  307 hatchback replaces the 306 hatch, but the 306 wagon and cabriolet continued to be offered for the last time.

2003:  Final year for 806 minivan.  307 wagon and 307 CC cabriolet launched.

2004:  Final year for 406 sedan, wagon and coupe.  807 minivan launched.

2005:  407 sedan and wagon replaces the 406 sedan and wagon.  607 is facelifted.

2006:  No changes.

2007:  407 coupe arrives as a belated replacement for the 406 coupe.  Final year for 307 hatchback and wagon.

2008:  308 hatchback replaces the 307.  307 CC cabrio offered for one final year.  Peugeot launches it's first SUV in America, the 4007, based on the Mitsubishi Outlander.

2009:  308 SW wagon launched.  

2010:  308 CC coupe-cabrio launched.  3008 crossover launched.  Final year for the 607.

2011:  Final year for 407 sedan and wagon.  RCZ sports car is introduced with 200 horsepower 1.6 turbo.

2012:  308 facelifted.  508 sedan and wagon launched and replaces the 407 and, to an extent, the 607.


Yep, this is what could have been.  I'm not sure if Peugeot would have considered importing the 206/207/208 to America, so I didn't consider these.  However, given the popularity of B segments cars in America these days, the 208 would certainly be a no-brainer.

Sadly, when I look back at the (real) history of Peugeot in America, I see a golden opportunity that was lost.  Peugeot could have been a major player on these shores if only they had listened to their American customers and dealers and had taken the American market seriously.

That's a good one. I think if PSA had stayed though, 207 and such might be very different cars.

[2o6]

What if Ford actually replaced the Mustang with the Probe back in the late-80's?

Mitsubish's Eclipse would still be relevant.   

[Eye of the Tiger]

What if I just would have kept my Buick Skylark back in 2002, and bought a new motorcycle instead of trading it for a new car?

[2o6]

What if Buick actually released that rebadged Saturn Vue that pretty much got slammed by everyone ever in existence?

[MX793]

In 2002, it was. The new generation didn't come out until a year later.

Even the next gen '03 Accord was still down a couple of cubic feet in overall interior volume.  Passenger space was up to 103 cubic feet (same as the Altima, one more than the Camry), but the trunk space remained at the smaller 14 cubic feet (vs 16 for Altima and 17 for Camry).

[2o6]

It doesn't feel that way...

[Eye of the Tiger]

What if the 1989 Pontiac LeMans wasn't a horrible piece of ...

[MX793]

It doesn't feel that way...

Accord had more rear seat space, and more hip room both front and back (I believe the Accord was wider inside), but was down on front seat headroom and legroom.

[2o6]

What if the 1989 Pontiac LeMans wasn't a horrible piece of ...

What if GM didn't have three models doing the exact same thing in the US?


Geo Prizm

Chevy Cavalier

Pontiac Lemans

Pontiac Sunfire/Sunbird

Plus whatever small car GM sold in other countries.



Honda only had one Civic. Toyota only had one Corolla. Why did GM have so many compacts?

Accord had more rear seat space, and more hip room both front and back (I believe the Accord was wider inside), but was down on front seat headroom and legroom.

Are we talking about the same Accord? I remember the 2002 Accord and Camry being much smaller inside.

(Quick research I didn't realize Camry changed in 2002)

[Eye of the Tiger]

What if GM didn't have three models doing the exact same thing in the US?


Geo Prizm

Chevy Cavalier

Pontiac Lemans

Pontiac Sunfire/Sunbird

Plus whatever small car GM sold in other countries.



Honda only had one Civic. Toyota only had one Corolla. Why did GM have so many compacts?


Are we talking about the same Accord? I remember the 2002 Accord and Camry being much smaller inside.

(Quick research I didn't realize Camry changed in 2002)

False.
CRX
Civic 4wd Waggin
Corolla FX-16
Corolla GT-S
Corolla 4x4 waggin
Chevy Novarolla
.
.
.
Tercel
Paseo
Celica
.
.
.

[2o6]

Diifference is that all those Civic and Corolla variants were mechanically related.



The GM ones weren't.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Diifference is that all those Civic and Corolla variants were mechanically related.



The GM ones weren't.

I am surprised that you didn't list every other Geo model.

[2o6]

I am surprised that you didn't list every other Geo model.

Spectrum, and others.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Spectrum, and others.

Storm GTi

[MX793]

Diifference is that all those Civic and Corolla variants were mechanically related.



The GM ones weren't.

Sunfire/Sunbird/Cavalier were.  And the Prism was a rebadged Corolla which GM paid basically nothing to develop.  They got it as a freebie for going halvsies with Toyota on a US auto plant.

[Vinsanity]

Mitsubish's Eclipse would still be relevant.   

My guess is that the Probestang would have continued to 1997 just like in reality, with the Camaro and Thunderbird picking up the slack left by the absence of a RWD Mustang. The Camaro would have been the juggernaut muscle car of the 90's, sending Ford back to the drawing board to develop a proper Mustang, likely based on an evolution of the 90's T-Bird.

[SVT666]

If Chevy hadn't brought out the new Camaro, would the Mustang still be chugging along with the old 3V 4.6L?

[Rich]

If the Miata never existed, would the convertible MR-2 (late 90s), Solstice, and S2000 have come out?

[Raza]

If Chevy hadn't brought out the new Camaro, would the Mustang still be chugging along with the old 3V 4.6L?

Probably.

If the Miata never existed, would the convertible MR-2 (late 90s), Solstice, and S2000 have come out?

No.

[Laconian]

Would the RX8 have better sales if Mazda put a turbo on it?

[Raza]

Would the RX8 have better sales if Mazda put a turbo on it?

Probably.

[Laconian]

What if the CTS was available as a convertible?

[MrH]

What if the Z4 weren't totally fucking awesome?

I wouldn't want to live in that world.  

Ummm, that world already exists.  It's called reality.  Yeah, it does kinda suck I guess

[Raza]

Ummm, that world already exists.  It's called reality.  Yeah, it does kinda suck I guess

What if Toyota made what is essentially a Corolla coupe and then Subaru sold a rebadged version to suckers?

[MX793]

Would the RX8 have better sales if Mazda put a turbo on it?

Probably would have sold better had it not been so weird looking.  It was really an odd car overall.  Not quite a coupe, not quite a sedan.  Seating provisions were roomier and easier to access than a real coupe, lending it practicality closer to a small sedan, but the trunk was tiny and the rear seats didn't fold flat, which almost completely negated any gains in practicality lent by the rear doors.  The driving experience was excellent, though.  Of the cars I test drove when I was shopping a couple of years ago, the RX was my favorite to drive.  Unfortunate that my buying decision had to be based on more than driving experience alone.

[Rich]

I'd have gotten an RX-8 in 2005 if it was a sleek coupe instead of an awkward something or other

[Vinsanity]

What if the CTS was available as a convertible?

I would have like 2 of them.

(ok, probably not at the same time, I probably would have bought a 1st gen and then traded in for a 2nd gen)

[Vinsanity]

What if Toyota made what is essentially a Corolla coupe and then Subaru sold a rebadged version to suckers?

Corolla coupe? Nice try. Maybe if you were talking about the Scion TC...

[MexicoCityM3]

What if Mercedes had actually bought BMW back in the 50's when the Quandt family stepped in to save its independence?

Now - that would have absolutely sucked.