Why do you hate the Prius?

[280Z Turbo]

And yet we keep finding more and we currently have enough to last us for well over a thousand years.

I wish I could believe that.

[SVT666]

I wish I could believe that.

Not believing it doesn't make it any less true.

[sportyaccordy]

If they weren't morons, car sales would tank.

Who's job is it to keep car companies afloat?

Even w/o the time value of money, the numbers don't pan out. ANY financial analysis beyond looking at what you spend on gas kills hybrids vs comparable new cars.

$ for $ though (i.e. you have $10K for a used car) a hybrid makes a lot of sense. New its doubly bad because you take on new car depreciation AND you pay a premium for it. "The average consumer" can think whatever they want but numbers are numbers.

[sportyaccordy]

Personally I think we need smaller lighter cheaper cars. I think people would pay $10K for something basic and new with a warranty. A surprisingly high number of people.

[hotrodalex]

Personally I think we need smaller lighter cars.

We know.

[2o6]

Personally I think we need smaller lighter cheaper cars. I think people would pay $10K for something basic and new with a warranty. A surprisingly high number of people.

Nissan Versa, Chevy Spark, most subcompacts start near that price point.

[Colonel Cadillac]

Personally I think we need smaller lighter cheaper cars. I think people would pay $10K for something basic and new with a warranty. A surprisingly high number of people.

What's the best selling vehicle in America?

[Payman]

The Prius represents the antithesis of what enthusiasts love about cars... power, performance, style, and freedom. We now have a new kind of enthusiast that prefers economy, environment, image of responsibility, and practicality. The former is the guy you want to hang with, have a few beers while discussing cars. The latter is the boring douche who prefers social interaction on a laptop at Starbucks.

[cawimmer430]

If you guys want me to liven up this thread with '70s Malaise Era love, just let me know. It looks like we could use some beautiful cars in here to cheer people up. 

[sportyaccordy]

What's the best selling vehicle in America?

A Ford F150 I think? What does that have to do with anything, 8 out of the 10 top sellers are conventional cars.

[sportyaccordy]

Nissan Versa, Chevy Spark, most subcompacts start near that price point.

Cheapest one is the Accent which starts at $12.5K. And those are usually teaser trims that are missing shit like AC and steering wheels. I am talking about a real $10K car people will actually buy.

[MrH]

Personally I think we need smaller lighter cheaper cars. I think people would pay $10K for something basic and new with a warranty. A surprisingly high number of people.

False.  Completely stripped out Versas don't sell worth a damn.  Besides, you can't just go out and build a $10k car if you want to.  That'd be a lot of SERIOUS cost cutting.

[MrH]

Cheapest one is the Accent which starts at $12.5K. And those are usually teaser trims that are missing shit like AC and steering wheels. I am talking about a real $10K car people will actually buy.

How do you propose building a "real" car (I'm assuming you mean one with A/C and all the options that people want) for $10k?

[Madman]

How do you propose building a "real" car (I'm assuming you mean one with A/C and all the options that people want) for $10k?

Can't be done.

[Raza]

Doesn't the Tata Nano have AC?

[MrH]

Doesn't the Tata Nano have AC?

Lol, I think so, but that's far from the "real" car that people would want to buy like Sporty is suggesting.

[Laconian]

Dacias look serviceable and they're dirt dirt cheap. My dad would probably be happier and safer in one than his old-ass Corolla. He just doesn't care.

[Raza]

Dacias look serviceable and they're dirt dirt cheap. My dad would probably be happier and safer in one than his old-ass Corolla. He just doesn't care.

My buddy's dad loves his. 

[2o6]

Dacias look serviceable and they're dirt dirt cheap. My dad would probably be happier and safer in one than his old-ass Corolla. He just doesn't care.

The good Dacias arent that cheap, and the cheap Dacias have safety devices engineered out of them( like impact beams annd stuff). Some models sold in South America are cheaper than the 1 sold in Europe

[Colonel Cadillac]

A Ford F150 I think? What does that have to do with anything, 8 out of the 10 top sellers are conventional cars.

Point being most new car buyers don't buy $10k cars, because they all pretty much suck ass. The best selling vehicle is the F150, and that's about as far away from the $10k hunk o junk you're talking about as you can get.

In addition, they compete with perfectly good, and vastly superior, used cars that often still have valid warranties. For example, my car cost the same as a new semi-base new Camry and had a 3 year warranty to boot. I'd get a used car like mine (cpo) over any mainstreamer every time. The same logic applies at the lower price levels.

[SVT666]

A Ford F150 I think? What does that have to do with anything, 8 out of the 10 top sellers are conventional cars.

No.  No they're not.  Only 5 are conventional cars.

1. Ford F-Series
2. Chevy Silverado
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Camry
5. Honda Accord
6. Ram pickups
7. Toyota Carolla
8. Honda CR-V
9. Ford Escape
10. Nissan Altima

[sportyaccordy]

How do you propose building a "real" car (I'm assuming you mean one with A/C and all the options that people want) for $10k?

Nissan does it with the Tsuru

Plenty of folks buy out of date "decontented" cars for $10K all the time on the used market. A new Corolla is better equipped and more refined than a 10 yr old version for sure. But the old one still has a huge market. It would take the govt easing up on safety regs a bit, but I don't think the $10K non-penalty box is anywhere near as ridiculous an idea as you're hoping for everyone else to agree that it is.

[sportyaccordy]

Point being most new car buyers don't buy $10k cars, because they all pretty much suck ass. The best selling vehicle is the F150, and that's about as far away from the $10k hunk o junk you're talking about as you can get.

In addition, they compete with perfectly good, and vastly superior, used cars that often still have valid warranties. For example, my car cost the same as a new semi-base new Camry and had a 3 year warranty to boot. I'd get a used car like mine (cpo) over any mainstreamer every time. The same logic applies at the lower price levels.

I am pretty sure you did not buy your car. Not saying you wouldn't again, but then not saying you automatically would

And again, plenty of people buy used cars, largely because they can't afford new ones. For you, a used Audi A4 makes more sense than a new Camry for the same money. But the opposite is true for the average car buyer. Likewise a "new" basic car with a little less content + refinement (but a warranty + 0 miles) would make more sense than a $10-15K used car, just for pure peace of mind

[MrH]

Nissan does it with the Tsuru

Plenty of folks buy out of date "decontented" cars for $10K all the time on the used market. A new Corolla is better equipped and more refined than a 10 yr old version for sure. But the old one still has a huge market. It would take the govt easing up on safety regs a bit, but I don't think the $10K non-penalty box is anywhere near as ridiculous an idea as you're hoping for everyone else to agree that it is.

There's no way the Tsuru would sell here.  We've got champagne taste on a beer budget.  A used car a few years old is much better in every way.

[Soup DeVille]

I don't hate the Prius. I think its an important car that almost certainly will be considered a classic in twenty years. I don't particularly *like* it either, but I have no hate for it.

What I do find annoying is Prius drivers- pericularly the ones fond of bumper stickers.

One always parked at my kid's school says "Arms are for hugging." Every time I read it, I want to go home and hug my FAL.

[2o6]

Nissan does it with the Tsuru

Plenty of folks buy out of date "decontented" cars for $10K all the time on the used market. A new Corolla is better equipped and more refined than a 10 yr old version for sure. But the old one still has a huge market. It would take the govt easing up on safety regs a bit, but I don't think the $10K non-penalty box is anywhere near as ridiculous an idea as you're hoping for everyone else to agree that it is.

They are unsafe and have safety crap engineered out of them.


Dacia/Renault Sandero

Top - Latin America Version (1 star)

Bottom - European Version (4 stars)

[SVT666]

How do you have safety stuff engineered out?  It was there, but they removed it?  Or it just never had it to begin with?

[2o6]

How do you have safety stuff engineered out?  It was there, but they removed it?  Or it just never had it to begin with?

MrH would be a better source on it, but they take reinforcement beams out to save money. They use cheaper steel to save money. Airbags are a thing that usually left on the shop room floor, but as you can see, they take more crap out of the structure to come in at a more competitive price point in Latin America.

[sportyaccordy]

Again... people buy used cars all the time, with similarly flimsy crash capabilities

[Soup DeVille]

Again... people buy used cars all the time, with similarly flimsy crash capabilities

But, in the US: you could not legally buy a new car with out of date safety equipment.