First Hyundai, now Ford? Fusion and C-Max Hybrids fail economy test miserably

[2o6]

CR is putting Ford on blast - C-Max Hybrid missed their hybrid claim by a whopping 9MPG.



www.autoblog.com/2012/12/06/consumer-reports-calls-out-ford-for-false-fusion-c-max-h/



I wonder who else is 'cheating'?


I really wonder how the average consumer drives; I often beat or match my EPA window sticker. So many people drive ignorant of fuel economy - foot always on the throttle until they come to a stop, hard acceleration, ect.

[cawimmer430]

I think the biggest problem with hybrids is when they're running on their conventional gasoline engines they're going to have to lug around all that extra weight all the time and in all situations.

A modern diesel car is the way to go.  

To me a hybrid makes sense for taxis for example that do most of their driving in the city.

[2o6]

I think the biggest problem with hybrids is when they're running on their conventional gasoline engines they're going to have to lug around all that extra weight all the time and in all situations.

A modern diesel car is the way to go.  

To me a hybrid makes sense for taxis for example that do most of their driving in the city.

CR does all their vehicles in this test, most meet or beat their ratings. Hyundai was the only one who missed it, (Elantra, I think) and it only missed it by 1MPG.


Ford missed it by 9MPG.

[cawimmer430]

On another forum they're complaining that the CR/EPA methods for measuring/estimating gas mileage are completely outdated. Any truth to that?

[Madman]

On another forum they're complaining that the CR/EPA methods for measuring/estimating gas mileage are completely outdated. Any truth to that?

Absolutely.  The EPA tests are inherently biased in favour of hybrids and against diesels.  Hybrid owners frequently complain they never come close to achieving the EPA's wildly inflated estimates (Witness the woman who sued Honda in small claims court because her Civic Hybrid failed to meet mileage claims) whilst diesel owners routinely achieve mileage figures well in excess of the official numbers.

The ignorant masses who simply look at the rigged EPA estimates and don't investigate any further will naturally plonk their cash down for the hybrid instead of the diesel.  Those who actually bother to calculate their fuel consumption (most don't) will inevitably be disappointed when they learn their hybrid isn't the fuel sipping miser they were fraudulently lead to believe.

[2o6]

Absolutely.  The EPA tests are inherently biased in favour of hybrids and against diesels.  Hybrid owners frequently complain they never come close to achieving the EPA's wildly inflated estimates (Witness the woman who sued Honda in small claims court because her Civic Hybrid failed to meet mileage claims) whilst diesel owners routinely achieve mileage figures well in excess of the official numbers.

The ignorant masses who simply look at the rigged EPA estimates and don't investigate any further will naturally plonk their cash down for the hybrid instead of the diesel.  Those who actually bother to calculate their fuel consumption (most don't) will inevitably be disappointed when they learn their hybrid isn't the fuel sipping miser they were fraudulently lead to believe.

This is false.

[SVT666]

Absolutely.  The EPA tests are inherently biased in favour of hybrids and against diesels.  Hybrid owners frequently complain they never come close to achieving the EPA's wildly inflated estimates (Witness the woman who sued Honda in small claims court because her Civic Hybrid failed to meet mileage claims) whilst diesel owners routinely achieve mileage figures well in excess of the official numbers.

You really have no fucking clue.  That woman sued Honda because Honda updated her Civic with a new ECU tune that changed the points at which the gasoline engine would start.  This caused the car to use more fuel than it was originally intended to.

[sportyaccordy]

I dont know, Madman's grandiose platitudes are pretty convincing to me

[AutobahnSHO]

lolz I have to agree with Madman on this one.

[cawimmer430]

Absolutely.  The EPA tests are inherently biased in favour of hybrids and against diesels.  Hybrid owners frequently complain they never come close to achieving the EPA's wildly inflated estimates (Witness the woman who sued Honda in small claims court because her Civic Hybrid failed to meet mileage claims) whilst diesel owners routinely achieve mileage figures well in excess of the official numbers.

The ignorant masses who simply look at the rigged EPA estimates and don't investigate any further will naturally plonk their cash down for the hybrid instead of the diesel.  Those who actually bother to calculate their fuel consumption (most don't) will inevitably be disappointed when they learn their hybrid isn't the fuel sipping miser they were fraudulently lead to believe.

Cool.

Sucks that so few diesels are available in the US. You guys are MISSING OUT! You could be driving a diesel-powered Cadillac Cat...Opel Omega!

[Madman]

This is false.

Then explain why their are so many hybrid owners out there who are disappointed with their car's mileage.  At the same time, practically every diesel owner I hear from are thrilled about how their cars get better mileage than expected.  The only logical explanation is the EPA tests are either flawed or deliberately biased.

The EPA itself admitted it's own fuel economy ratings for hybrids were grossly exaggerated when, in 2008, it drastically cut the ratings for all hybrid models by anywhere from 12 to 30 per cent.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-economy/2008-epa-fuel-economy-rating3.htm

Even though EPA's revised figures aren't as wildly optimistic as before, they are still virtually unobtainable by actual owners driving their cars in real-world conditions.

[Madman]

Cool.

Sucks that so few diesels are available in the US. You guys are MISSING OUT! You could be driving a diesel-powered Cadillac Cat...Opel Omega!

I'd love to have an Omega Turbodiesel!!!  If there is one thing I would change about my Caterror, I'd wish the fuel economy were a bit better.  Although it's about what I expected it to be, fewer visits to the pump are always welcome.

[2o6]

Then explain why their are so many hybrid owners out there who are disappointed with their car's mileage.  At the same time, practically every diesel owner I hear from are thrilled about how their cars get better mileage than expected.  The only logical explanation is the EPA tests are either flawed or deliberately biased.

The EPA itself admitted it's own fuel economy ratings for hybrids were grossly exaggerated when, in 2008, it drastically cut the ratings for all hybrid models by anywhere from 12 to 30 per cent.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-economy/2008-epa-fuel-economy-rating3.htm

Even though EPA's revised figures aren't as wildly optimistic as before, they are still virtually unobtainable by actual owners driving their cars in real-world conditions.

Because you don't understand how Hybrids work and how they excel in the city, but suffer on the freeway. It takes advantage of the EPA's test not deliberately; there are long periods of the test where the car is stopped and idling. Hybrids (more specifically, Toyota Hybrids) don't idle; they are shut off, and for a lot of speed, (like, under 30MPH) the car is electric and doesn't use any fuel. Freeway driving can't take advantage of the electric motor as much, so fuel economy isn't as good.

Diesels are the opposite.

[SVT666]

Exactly.  If your commute is mostly highway, your mileage in a Hybrid isn't going to come anywhere near the EPA claims.

[r0tor]

Interesting as my parents has a fusion hybrid on orders...

[cawimmer430]

I'd love to have an Omega Turbodiesel!!!  If there is one thing I would change about my Caterror, I'd wish the fuel economy were a bit better.  Although it's about what I expected it to be, fewer visits to the pump are always welcome.

The next time you win the lottery you can always import an Opel Omega Turbodiesel for your driving pleasure. 

[Atomic]

I read about Ford's 9-10 MPG spread and that high of an "error" seems more than coincidental. It is especially appalling for a hybrid and the green factor these companies are trying to promote. It's alarming for Ford if the claims of deception are true after a bad week or more of MY13 Fusion (in particular) and Escape factory recalls (including potential for fires) and disappointing sales of its redesigned sedan, despite $1,000 rebates and other hefty incentives to move them. The culmination effect is not good for business or any new vehicle's reputation.

[Autobahn]

The next time you win the lottery you can always import an Opel Omega Turbodiesel for your driving pleasure. 

... funny thing is, the Omega was long available with a BMW diesel engine - real driving pleasure

[r0tor]

Hybrid fuel mileage is incredibly variable and impossible to have a one size fits all number.  If your buying a hybrid do as my parents did and force the dealership into an overnight test drive where you can take it on your daily driving routes and see what it will do for you.

[MX793]

Until someone can show that Ford falsified data or cheated the EPA test, blame the EPA's testing methodology and not Ford if real world mileage and EPA mileage do not match.

[2o6]

Until someone can show that Ford falsified data or cheated the EPA test, blame the EPA's testing methodology and not Ford if real world mileage and EPA mileage do not match.

I said it when Hyundai's scandal broke, I wonder if more manufacturers aren't 'cheating'.

[MX793]

I said it when Hyundai's scandal broke, I wonder if more manufacturers aren't 'cheating'.

IIRC, Prius's real world mileage misses EPA numbers by a fair bit as well.  Toyota even wanted to advertise their own, lower mileage estimates and the EPA told them they could not.

[2o6]

IIRC, Prius's real world mileage misses EPA numbers by a fair bit as well.  Toyota even wanted to advertise their own, lower mileage estimates and the EPA told them they could not.

I think too many consumers are uninformed about how things work. Hybrids like the Prius and Volt (especially Volt) vary so wildly due to driving style and driving use. My commute is a short freeway sprint, something like a Prius would be totally wasted on me. However, if my commute was more stop and go, a Prius or Volt would be perfect for me.

[SVT666]

The Volt is perfect for most every commute.   Too bad it's so damn expensive to begin with.

[Eye of the Tiger]

The Volt is perfect for most every commute.   Too bad it's so damn expensive to begin with.

And too bad you can't fit a gun rack in the back

[sparkplug]

if you inflate you tires 20 psi above recommend you're sure to get better gas mileage... until you're tires explode.