New Skoda Octavia, cast in the same mold, arrives full of new features

[2o6]

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsSpecs&vehicleCode=M3H



ENGINE AND DRIVETRAIN CHOICES
- 155-hp SKYACTIV-G 2.0L 4-cylinder engine with a choice of SKYACTIV-MT 6-speed manual or SKYACTIV-Drive
6-speed Sport automatic transmission (i models)
- 167-hp, 2.5L 4-cylinder engine with a choice of 6-speed manual or 5-speed Sport automatic transmission (s models)

I didn't hit specs! I hit "build"! And I didn't care enough to look at the page for more than three seconds!

[TurboDan]

I don't see how "quicker" is relevant here. The roads around the town where my parents live have speed limits between 60-100 km/h. There is no Autobahn involved, just twisty country roads. A base engine will do just fine here. Like I said, people will commute for short trips (10-20 km on average) so they don't need something fast.

If we're talking Autobahn, then the 1.4-l engine will get better gas mileage than the base motor.

There are less "twisty" roads in the U.S. and more straight highways. 

[TurboDan]

Skoda is the smart money way to get yourself a car on a VW corporate platform IMHO. Looks ok too and doesn't have the rotten brand image of SEAT.

I like SEAT. 

(And yes, I've driven one and enjoyed it.  )

[Raza]

Skoda is the smart money way to get yourself a car on a VW corporate platform IMHO. Looks ok too and doesn't have the rotten brand image of SEAT.

Well, in the US, Seat doesn't have a brand image at all.  Neither does Skoda.

But yeah, I'd jump at a Skoda liftback as a daily driver when the time comes.  VW quality at a lower price.  Win-win.  The old Octavia vRS was really great and I'd love one.

This is the estate, but you get my point:

[Raza]

Some people do.

My parents live in the province and many people there own small cars with most likely the weakest engine. They need such cars to drive from home to work and back (which can be anything in the region of a 10-20 km trip on average). For these people a 58-hp Fiesta will do the job of getting them from A to B with minimal costs.

Yeah, but they don't want it.  Finding it sufficient and cheap to run is not the same as wanting it. 

[MexicoCityM3]

I like SEAT. 

(And yes, I've driven one and enjoyed it.  )

The cars are ok. Their brand image here is equivalent to the asian ricer scene you got in the US. Morons in SEATs are out to prove how fast their dinky cars are. More so than any other brand here.

[Raza]

The cars are ok. Their brand image here is equivalent to the asian ricer scene you got in the US. Morons in SEATs are out to prove how fast their dinky cars are. More so than any other brand here.

Ah, Mexico's Nissan.

[cawimmer430]

It gets to 60 in about literally 1/2 the time, and since it has more power, it won't be overburdened all the time trying to move the car around (engine working harder - more fuel consumption).

Trust me, these cars aren't as slow as you think. In many cases they're quite quick from 0-80 km/h, 80-100 km/h takes a bit longer. And nobody buys these cars for performance. The performance is completely sufficient for everyday driving.

[cawimmer430]

Yeah, but they don't want it.  Finding it sufficient and cheap to run is not the same as wanting it. 

You're forgetting that these people are often not car enthusiasts. They don't think like us. They want something cheap that has minimal costs and to them the base engine fits that criteria.

[Raza]

You're forgetting that these people are often not car enthusiasts. They don't think like us. They want something cheap that has minimal costs and to them the base engine fits that criteria.

I'm not forgetting.  I never forget.  People who aren't car enthusiasts tend to want things that are big and comfortable--effortless.  A 58hp subcompact is not effortless. 

[TurboDan]

You're forgetting that these people are often not car enthusiasts. They don't think like us. They want something cheap that has minimal costs and to them the base engine fits that criteria.

Yeah, but let's be honest, nobody would choose that engine except for the fact that the government artificially inflates the price of larger engines by way of taxation.

You don't go to a car dealership and tell them, "give me the slowest car you got."

[Raza]

You don't go to a car dealership and tell them, "give me the slowest car you got."

[cawimmer430]

I'm not forgetting.  I never forget.  People who aren't car enthusiasts tend to want things that are big and comfortable--effortless.  A 58hp subcompact is not effortless.

Yeah, but let's be honest, nobody would choose that engine except for the fact that the government artificially inflates the price of larger engines by way of taxation.

You don't go to a car dealership and tell them, "give me the slowest car you got."

Many Europeans think differently. In this case it's a question of "How power do I need?"

Once again, the people buying these cars are more concerned about getting from A to B with as little spending as possible. Performance doesn't matter to them, but fuel economy and running costs do. These cars are relatively cheap to run and insure. That's what matters to them.

I'd never buy a base engine Fiesta. But I'd also never buy the top of the line model either. I'd go for something in the middle that offers a good power and fuel economy mix which is perfect for my personal driving needs.

The automotive taxes here aren't that bad either. A Fiesta will cost you less than a hundred Euros a year for tax. No big deal.

[Raza]

Many Europeans think differently. In this case it's a question of "How power do I need?"

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.  They don't think differently, they act differently, because they have to.  Sure, there are odd people like me and James May who prefer small, simple cars, but the vast majority of people aren't that way.

Once again, the people buying these cars are more concerned about getting from A to B with as little spending as possible. Performance doesn't matter to them, but fuel economy and running costs do. These cars are relatively cheap to run and insure. That's what matters to them.

And here you touch on why I'm right and you're just not, Chris.  No one wants these tiny 50hp cars.  They want to spend less money.  Do you think if tomorrow gas dropped to $1 a gallon and roads doubled in width, people will still buy these small, underpowered cars?  Fuel economy and running costs matter to everyone; that doesn't mean that they want a 50hp subcompact.

I'd never buy a base engine Fiesta. But I'd also never buy the top of the line model either. I'd go for something in the middle that offers a good power and fuel economy mix which is perfect for my personal driving needs.

Exactly.  These base models exist for things like average fuel economy and average CO2 emissions standards bullshit. 

I don't mean to offend, Wims, but you're thinking about this in the wrong context.  Yes, people want fuel efficient cars that are easy to park, but only because they have to. 

[AutobahnSHO]

You don't go to a car dealership and tell them, "give me the slowest car you got."

But on the other hand, in a land of EIGHT DOLLAR per Gallon gasoline, they do go into the dealership and say, "which car has the best fuel economy?"

Europe is a different culture.
Many many people in Europe drive to work and back in 20-40mph roads with no highway stretches.  They get groceries several times per week at a local market rather than filling a minivan a few times per month. They take the train. They walk or ride bikes.
Oh and gas is stupid expensive there.

[Colin]

I saw the results of a survey conducted by Aviva (who are one of the UK's largest motor insurers), which cited the difference in buyer priorities when looking for a new (family) car between 1980 and now.

In 1980:
1. Cost to buy
2. Style
3.Performance
4. Space
5. Cost to insure
6. Fuel Efficiency

In 2012
1. Cost to buy
2. Fuel Efficiency
3. Style
4. Space
5. Cost to insure
6. Performance

Given the huge rises in insurance costs, I am surprised this is still at number 5, but the rest of the results do not surprise me much. The vast majority of buyers are not car enthusiasts. In the days when entry level cars were of hair shirt spec and glacial performance, you might have understood why people looked higher up the range than the basic car, but the reality now is that there are very few cars where the performance is perfectly adequate, and as this survey shows, it is not a priority for Mr Average Motorist. (the results would surely be different for enthusiast-focused cars).

[cawimmer430]

But on the other hand, in a land of EIGHT DOLLAR per Gallon gasoline, they do go into the dealership and say, "which car has the best fuel economy?"

Europe is a different culture.
Many many people in Europe drive to work and back in 20-40mph roads with no highway stretches.  They get groceries several times per week at a local market rather than filling a minivan a few times per month. They take the train. They walk or ride bikes.
Oh and gas is stupid expensive there.

Exactly. 

And many Europeans are also very conservative with their buying habits and that includes cars.

[cawimmer430]

I saw the results of a survey conducted by Aviva (who are one of the UK's largest motor insurers), which cited the difference in buyer priorities when looking for a new (family) car between 1980 and now.

In 1980:
1. Cost to buy
2. Style
3.Performance
4. Space
5. Cost to insure
6. Fuel Efficiency

In 2012
1. Cost to buy
2. Fuel Efficiency
3. Style
4. Space
5. Cost to insure
6. Performance

Given the huge rises in insurance costs, I am surprised this is still at number 5, but the rest of the results do not surprise me much. The vast majority of buyers are not car enthusiasts. In the days when entry level cars were of hair shirt spec and glacial performance, you might have understood why people looked higher up the range than the basic car, but the reality now is that there are very few cars where the performance is perfectly adequate, and as this survey shows, it is not a priority for Mr Average Motorist. (the results would surely be different for enthusiast-focused cars).

Excellent post.

[2o6]

Exactly. 

And many Europeans are also very conservative with their buying habits and that includes cars.

Conservative does not mean a 58HP Fiesta.

[cawimmer430]

Conservative does not mean a 58HP Fiesta.

Cars like that are also often purchased by businesses for urban use. I once had an internship with an advertising agency that had a fleet of base 1.0 VW Lupo's.

[TurboDan]

Cars like that are also often purchased by businesses for urban use. I once had an internship with an advertising agency that had a fleet of base 1.0 VW Lupo's.

Businesses here buy those types of cars too. Smarts are very popular around here for florists and other small-time delivery outfits.

[280Z Turbo]

Exactly. 

And many Europeans are also very conservative with their buying habits and that includes cars.

And all you'd have to do is move a European to the American Midwest and watch him not be conservative.

[cawimmer430]

And all you'd have to do is move a European to the American Midwest and watch him not be conservative.

If some European moves to America, can he buy an economical station wagon? Of course not. He's forced to buy a 350-hp gas-guzzling V8 SUV base model because of the lack of engine options. 

[giant_mtb]

If some European moves to America, can he buy an economical station wagon? Of course not. He's forced to buy a 350-hp gas-guzzling V8 SUV base model because of the lack of engine options. 

Can't tell if this is ignorance or another shitty attempt at humor.

[cawimmer430]

Can't tell if this is ignorance or another shitty attempt at humor.

It's ----> 

[Madman]

If some European moves to America, can he buy an economical station wagon?

Yes, he can.



http://web.vw.com/tdi-clean-diesel/?sem=google


Then again, this is his ONLY option!

[CALL_911]

There are a lot more than that, and I'd expect a European who emigrated to America to probably go out and buy the thirstiest, most powerful SUV his money could buy. Why? Because for a change, he now can.

[Colin]

There are a lot more than that,

Go on, then, name them.............

I think you'll find that one by one all the wagons that used to be sold in the US have been deleted and not replaced. The Elantra Touring was the most recent casualty, replaced by the i30 that you guys call the Elantra GT. No new Passat, Focus, Mazda 6, Corolla wagons for America, and you don't get the Cruze that was launched in the rest of the world in 2012. Even Audi and BMW limit your choices very much and Mercedes don't give you the C Class Estate either.

[TurboDan]

Go on, then, name them.............

I think you'll find that one by one all the wagons that used to be sold in the US have been deleted and not replaced. The Elantra Touring was the most recent casualty, replaced by the i30 that you guys call the Elantra GT. No new Passat, Focus, Mazda 6, Corolla wagons for America, and you don't get the Cruze that was launched in the rest of the world in 2012. Even Audi and BMW limit your choices very much and Mercedes don't give you the C Class Estate either.

We have crossovers up the wazoo, however. The difference between a wagon and most crossovers, frankly, is next to nothing. If they had diesel engines in them, then we'd be talkin'. 

[TurboDan]

There are a lot more than that, and I'd expect a European who emigrated to America to probably go out and buy the thirstiest, most powerful SUV his money could buy. Why? Because for a change, he now can.

Definitely. Of the few European ex-pats I know, most drive massive SUVs. Off the top of my head, Range Rover Sport, ML-Class and Tahoe.