Infiniti's goofy new naming scheme

[Char]

Ppfffff

[Colonel Cadillac]

AUDI

Not an Audi

[Char]

  I'm human.

[2o6]

It looks like it might be a Focus.

[Cookie Monster]

I thought it was a TT.

[hotrodalex]

What is even going on in here

[Colonel Cadillac]

Audi hoods can stand up on their own.

[Raza]

Not relevant? You insulting me personally because I don't share the same view as you are NOT relevant. What IS relevant to the discussion is talking about Infiniti's direction, now that it's headed by a former Audi employee. My distain for Audi is within perfect context to for this discussion, especially because I was asked directly. What is your excuse?

And now that we have everyone's attention, why don't know explain to me and everyone else how the Audi Quattro was directly responsible for the BNR32 GTR.  Prove to everyone here how a the GTR, which never competed with Audi's Quattro, used the car as their basis of the GT-R design. You apparently know more than I on this, which should be expected of someone who drives a Z4, a vastly superior automobile compared to my Nissan quest.

You really don't understand how the grandfather of AWD racing heritage led to the development of AWD GT and supercars?  Then there's nothing I can explain to you.  Audi paved the way and proved how useful a platform like that can be.  I'm not alleging that Nissan pulled apart a Quattro when developing the GT-R.  I'm saying the Quattro opened the doors for further AWD development.  Every AWD performance car owes its existence to the Quattro.

And saying that you don't know shit isn't an insult, it's an observation. 

[Onslaught]

Audi hoods can stand up on their own.

They get lots of practice.

[cawimmer430]

It's because I don't get it. I don't understand the fervor for a subpar brand that has never built anything significant or even legendary, or achieved any engineering feat worthy of my attention. The entire range of cars across all their brands represent what I consider the most revolting compromise of style over substance.

Are you sure about that?

There's a gigantic building in Ingolstadt called the Audi Museum. I've been there - twice. In it you can view and appreciate all the historic Audi's and the achievements of the brand. There are many. Americans simply don't know about them - and don't care about them.

This is very unlike Lexus, a brand that was unknown 30 years ago, is now a segment leader offering daring style, technological innovation, reliability and extreme quality, and doesn't settle for being "almost."

When I walk through the Lexus Museum, I...wait a minute. What Lexus Museum?

From a European perspective it's Lexus which is the lame ass sub-par brand. No history or heritage (prestige) and virtually zero engine choices make them a brand to avoid in Europe if you're looking for prestigious luxury.

Lexus is a big player in the US. That's it. Elsewhere they're not on the radar. A boring brand with few vehicle options and engines = no appeal elsewhere.

[AltinD]

LEXUS doesn't settle for being almost ..... yes, that's why they have to be priced so much cheapper then the German competition, in order to generate sales.

[Char]

You really don't understand how the grandfather of AWD racing heritage led to the development of AWD GT and supercars?  Then there's nothing I can explain to you.  Audi paved the way and proved how useful a platform like that can be.  I'm not alleging that Nissan pulled apart a Quattro when developing the GT-R.  I'm saying the Quattro opened the doors for further AWD development.  Every AWD performance car owes its existence to the Quattro.

And saying that you don't know shit isn't an insult, it's an observation.

Like I said, predictable. First you walk back on your previous statement, and now you counter with another false statement. The Audi Quattro wasn't considered any type of super car/ higher performance GT. If any automaker deserves credit for making AWD supers cars viable option, it would be Porsche with their 959. The 959 development started in the early 80s, around the same time Audi started to campaign the Quattro, and it was Porsche's success, not Audi, that set the bar years to come. Another smack to the face of your theory was Porsche pulling out of  Group B rally racing (where the Quattro had most of its success) instead focusing on road racing. Needless to say, the 959 set the bar for cars to come, including future 911s.

If you would have argued that Audi was one of the first to pioneer the use of AWD cars, I wouldn't have disagreed. But to make a blatantly false statement that the Quattro set the bar for high performance cars generations later shows that you are either dishonest, or dumb. You can pick.

[Cookie Monster]

Like I said, predictable. First you walk back on your previous statement, and now you counter with another false statement. The Audi Quattro wasn't considered any type of super car/ higher performance GT. If any automaker deserves credit for making AWD supers cars viable option, it would be Porsche with their 959. The 959 development started in the early 80s, around the same time Audi started to campaign the Quattro. It was Porsche's success, not Audi, that set the bar years to come. Another smack to the face of your theory was Porsche pulling out of  Group B rally racing (where the Quattro had most of its success) instead focusing on road racing. Needless to say, the 959 set the bar for cars to come, including future 911s.

If you would have argued that Audi was one of the first to pioneer the use of AWD cars, I wouldn't have disagreed. But to make a blatantly false statement that the Quattro set the bar for high performance cars generations later shows that you are either dishonest, or dumb. You can pick.

Um, Subaru has been making AWD cars before Audi.

[Char]

Are you sure about that?

There's a gigantic building in Ingolstadt called the Audi Museum. I've been there - twice. In it you can view and appreciate all the historic Audi's and the achievements of the brand. There are many. Americans simply don't know about them - and don't care about them.



When I walk through the Lexus Museum, I...wait a minute. What Lexus Museum?

From a European perspective it's Lexus which is the lame ass sub-par brand. No history or heritage (prestige) and virtually zero engine choices make them a brand to avoid in Europe if you're looking for prestigious luxury.

Lexus is a big player in the US. That's it. Elsewhere they're not on the radar. A boring brand with few vehicle options and engines = no appeal elsewhere.

Nobody cares. Europeans are biased towards European brands, so congratulations on being ignorant (and proud!) Americans are a lot of things, but I can say we are generally less xenophobic and smarter consumers than our European counterparts. Don't bother responding to this either, I don't care what you have to say about history/heritage/prestige.  Building the brand on what you accomplished 30 years ago just shows how insignificant you have become and how little you have contributed today.


Merry Xmas all.

[Char]

Um, Subaru has been making AWD cars before Audi.

Then why are you quoting me, I never stated otherwise?

[CALL_911]

Much as I disagree with a lot of what he's said earlier, ^this post hits the nail on the head WRT H&H.

[Cookie Monster]

Then why are you quoting me, I never stated otherwise?

If you would have argued that Audi was one of the first to pioneer the use of AWD cars, I wouldn't have disagreed.

[cawimmer430]

Building the brand on what you accomplished 30 years ago just shows how insignificant you have become and how little you have contributed today.

I'm going to respond to this because you claimed that Audi has achieved nothing worth mentioning when in fact they have. Not only 30 years ago, but today as well. Audi's product range is appealing in many ways. Their recent achievements in LeMans using TDI-power have also elevated their status and prestige in the eyes of many consumers all over the world.

To put it short: Audi is the rising star in the global luxury market and there's a reason for that.

[Char]

Do I need to give you a lesson in context and reading comprehension? Again, I never said Audi was the first to utilize the AWD, I did state that if Raza wanted to make an argument for Audi's success utilizing it, I wouldn't have questioned it. 

[Colonel Cadillac]

Char's argument about Audi can be applied to about 85% of the car market, therefore it should be ignored.

[Char]

Char's argument about Audi can be applied to about 85% of the car market, therefore it should be ignored.

But you don't deny it's true. I think that speaks volumes.

[Colonel Cadillac]

But you don't deny it's true. I think that speaks volumes.

Learn to read between the lines.

[Char]

Learn to read between the lines.

[Colonel Cadillac]

It speaks volumes that you don't deny that you don't understand my point.

[Char]

Well played.

[Colin]

There's a lot of ill-formed prejudice in this thread.

Let's put a few facts into ithe "debate".

The Audi Quattro was laucnhed in 1980. It was not a "supercar" in the establihsed sense of the word, but its achievments in taking the rallying world by storm and the consequent benefits to road cars were noticed by just about everyone and did lead to a vast increase in the number of performance oriented 4WD cars on sale.

Porsche 959 did not appear until 1988 so you cannot really claim that the two were developed at more or less the same time.

The Audi 100 of 1982 was also one of the first cars to exploit the efficiency gains of an aerodynamic bodyshell, with a world beating cd of 0.30 at the time. Again it was not the first, but others quickly followed.

And there was Procon-Ten, a safety system which pulled the steering column forwards in a frontal impact away from the driver's chest - not something that was copied as everyone else went for the air bag solution, and Audi eventually did the same.

And what about the first A8, a car that used aluminium for strength and lightweight? Again, others have copied this (eg Jaguar).

As Wimmer says, Audi has a proud tradition of "Vorpsrung durch Technik" which goes back through the complex history of the marque from the last 100 years, which is well presented in the fantastic Audi Museum in Ingolsdat which he and I visited. Report here: http://themotor.net/?p=182

It is true that Lexus does indeed outsell Audi on the US market, but it is also true that this is not repeated throughout the rest of the world. In Europe, Lexus sales amount to a tiny number per year, less than 10,000 in a market of 1.8 million in the UK. The LS sold less than 100 cars in UK last year, and the GS did little better. The IS struggled to clear 1000 cars. the much vaunted CT failed to make any inroads into the all important fleet market. I don't believe they performed any better in France, Germany or Italy. The words "daring" to describe their design are not ones you often see, but as that is a subejctive term, then I am not going to express my own opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and personal views are not always based on purely rational and empirical analysis of the facts. That is only human.

Char clearly does not like Audi, and he is quite entitled to that view. Not everyone will agree, but the unpleasant tone to the way that it is repeatedly expressed is getting very wearing.

[sportyaccordy]

959 development started in 81 and it debuted in 86

Otherwise good post as always Colin

Audi still just doesn't do it for me though... but I do give them credit for not completely submitting to the niche within a niche within a niche madness of their German counterparts.

[Colonel Cadillac]

959 development started in 81 and it debuted in 86

Otherwise good post as always Colin

Audi still just doesn't do it for me though... but I do give them credit for not completely submitting to the niche within a niche within a niche madness of their German counterparts.

You also think all they do is understeer.

[Cookie Monster]

You also think all they do is understeer.

The older ones (till the B8) all kinda do...

[Colonel Cadillac]

After I put good tires on my car, my car oversteers more than it understeers.