What was the last "game changer"?

[SVT666]

Im not sure what the frbrzzzzz does that the rx8 didnt do 9 years ago.

It's not a sedan...

I dont think i've seen it mentioned, but the 2005 Mustang really stirred the pot and gave the old american ponycar image some respect again.

It was mentioned in the opening post.  Without it, the Camaro and Challenger would have stayed dead.  The Camaro, in turn, forced Ford to develop the 5.0L V8, the Track Package, Boss 302, and the 662 hp GT500.  Those cars then forced GM to build the 1LE and the ZL1.  Those cars will force the next Mustang to be absolutely world class.

EDIT: I'm actually worried about the next Mustang.  I'm afraid it's going to become too polished.  Pony cars are supposed to wild rides and I'm afraid Ford will give it far too much polish in order to have magazines declare it the winner when compared with the Camaro.  I like it having a wild side while still being able to handle well. 

[r0tor]

No, hardly, and no

[SVT666]

Clarify.

[280Z Turbo]

Not burn oil, be reliable, not get horrible gas mileage...

Ditto. Rotard apologists can claim whatever they want, but the rotary engine is inherently flawed.

[GoCougs]

Clarify.

Ford (and the market) doesn't really care about auto magazine comparisons. Ford cares about sales. Pony cars aren't intentionally "wild" rides (or the opposite of "polished"). It just worked out that way in favoring performance and style over refinement at a given price point. The market isn't going to want a car that is intentionally not polished.

Ford's target should be (and probably is) something along the lines of the V8 S5.

[S204STi]

Ditto. Rotard apologists can claim whatever they want, but the rotary engine is inherently flawed.

It's a novelty, but little more than that to me at this point.

[Onslaught]

+1

It's also better to drive, lighter, and looks better.

I'm not so sure about that one.


I REALLY like the BRZ. But I'd never trade my 8 for one in a million years.

[MrH]

Have you driven a BRZ?  RX-8 is a little quicker, but the BRZ is a bit more focused.  Steering is a little lighter, but I think turn in is a bit crisper.  Just a tad smaller and more nimble.

[MX793]

I really need to drive an FR-S/BRZ.  The RX-8 stands as probably the best driving experience of any car I've driven.  Steering was spot on, the car felt light yet stiff, suspension was tight but not punishing, shifter was great...  And the engine, despite its lack of grunt, was part of the experience.  Unique and interesting engine note and it was soooo smooth.  I was running at 4000+ RPM and had no idea that the engine was spinning more than 3 grand until I glanced at the tach.

[Rupert]

Whoa, RX-8s are cheap. Lots of ATs, but most of them in Boise are 2004-6 and $9-12k.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Whoa, RX-8s are cheap. Lots of ATs, but most of them in Boise are 2004-6 and $9-12k.

Do it. You need something to work on when you're not working on the Porsche or Fiat

[Rupert]

That would be a sell the Porsche and Fiat to get the money, and then I wouldn't have the Porsche.

[FoMoJo]

I really need to drive an FR-S/BRZ.  The RX-8 stands as probably the best driving experience of any car I've driven.  Steering was spot on, the car felt light yet stiff, suspension was tight but not punishing, shifter was great...  And the engine, despite its lack of grunt, was part of the experience.  Unique and interesting engine note and it was soooo smooth.  I was running at 4000+ RPM and had no idea that the engine was spinning more than 3 grand until I glanced at the tach.

Sounds a bit too tame to do much for me.  Doesn't get my juices flowing unless everything is vibrating so much that the rearview mirror is just a blur; and that's at idle.  Then when you stomp on the gas there's such a cacophony of noise between the barking of the exhaust and screeching of rubber and the giant sucking sound of air and gas being fed through the carburetor throats that the rest of the world just tunes out; and then your hanging on for dear life. 

[MX793]

Sounds a bit too tame to do much for me.  Doesn't get my juices flowing unless everything is vibrating so much that the rearview mirror is just a blur; and that's at idle.  Then when you stomp on the gas there's such a cacophony of noise between the barking of the exhaust and screeching of rubber and the giant sucking sound of air and gas being fed through the carburetor throats that the rest of the world just tunes out; and then your hanging on for dear life. 

I'd say the motor is more akin to a small displacement I6 in character.  It's a different sort of exciting.  A high RPM howler, but not as course at full song as your typical high-revving I4.  And there's very little vibration in the vehicle from the engine.

[Onslaught]

Have you driven a BRZ?  RX-8 is a little quicker, but the BRZ is a bit more focused.  Steering is a little lighter, but I think turn in is a bit crisper.  Just a tad smaller and more nimble.

I'd like to and will someday seeing that it's at the top of the list of cars I want my girlfriend to get. But my car had the press jerking off about it for years. Even at the end of it's life.  And the R3 was always beating out cars 5 years younger that cost 3 times as much in handling comparisons.
So while I can't say I've have proof that the BRZ isn't better at handling then the R3, I'd be rather surprised if it was.



And it's not as good looking   

[r0tor]

Compared to the fbrzzzz, the rx8 handles as well, feels as good, has much less road noise, has a better ride, and the rear seats can actually be used as seats and not shelves.

[Onslaught]

It also cost more and cost more to run and has polarizing looks. So I can see why the BRZ could do better in the end. So I'd rather not turn this into a my car vs your car thing.

[MrH]

Compared to the fbrzzzz, the rx8 handles as well, feels as good, has much less road noise, has a better ride, and the rear seats can actually be used as seats and not shelves.

Have you driven the BRZ?

[Laconian]

A throwdown! Whose ePeen is the biggest?

[Raza]

Whoa, RX-8s are cheap. Lots of ATs, but most of them in Boise are 2004-6 and $9-12k.

Out here you can get one of that vintage for 8K.  Dirt cheap.  But I wouldn't touch one with all the reliability issues. 

Apparently the 04s and 05s were the worst when it comes to reliability because the ECU was programmed improperly from factory.

Also, I found these quotes on an RX-8 forum:

"the best way for the rx8 to be called "reliable" is if you purchase it with less than 50k miles and still has a chunk of its 8yr 100k mile warranty left.. also you need ~5k for a new engine rebuild in the bank that CANNOT be touched.

Understand that the engine WILL blow and if you are okay with dropping 5k on it then great, enjoy the car. If you are not comfortable with this then i would recommend another car."

"even with the ecu update, the pre09 engine still suffers from lack of oil nozzle and lack of oil pressure. its better than nothing, but not ideal."

"oil needs to be religiously checked every 2 gas fillups (i usually check once a week) and same with coolant needs to be religiously checked, ignoring these can lead to a new engine. "

"spark plugs wires and coils need to be replaced every 30k miles which can get expensive "


Lack of capitalization and punctuation aside, I also found this:

http://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/new-potential-owners-start-here-202454/

RX-8s are cool and all, but there are many reasons not to buy one.  But if you have multiple cars and don't mind an incredibly maintenance intensive car (which it seems you don't), it is a very good driving experience.  Although I did see a video where an RX-8 got its ass handed to it around a track by a DC5 ITR. 

[Raza]

Compared to the fbrzzzz, the rx8 handles as well, feels as good, has much less road noise, has a better ride, and the rear seats can actually be used as seats and not shelves.

It also cost more and cost more to run and has polarizing looks. So I can see why the BRZ could do better in the end. So I'd rather not turn this into a my car vs your car thing.

Someone does!

Have you driven the BRZ?

(Seriously though, I'm 100% in the BRZ camp here.  I could have bought an RX-8 and didn't, for good reason.)

[MrH]

  Not trying to turn this into an internet wiener contest at all.

Just think it's kind of silly to claim the BRZ doesn't drive better until you experience both

[Onslaught]

  Not trying to turn this into an internet wiener contest at all.

Just think it's kind of silly to claim the BRZ doesn't drive better until you experience both

I'm not trying to be an ass about it. How much seat time have you had in an 8? And have you been in a series II yet? Because they're much better then the 04-08.

[MrH]

I think I've driven an RX-8 5-6 times?  Probably half of them were in the series II.  Maybe 2.5 hours total of pushing around back roads trying to get a good feel for it?  Something like that.

[Onslaught]

Ok, I personally don't think the RX-8 was a game changer so I don't see a need for it in this thread. I'll just address these and be done with it.

"Apparently the 04s and 05s were the worst when it comes to reliability because the ECU was programmed improperly from factory."     

Yes, it seems they had a flash every other week. Mazda should've done better on that.

"the best way for the rx8 to be called "reliable" is if you purchase it with less than 50k miles and still has a chunk of its 8yr 100k mile warranty left.. also you need ~5k for a new engine rebuild in the bank that CANNOT be touched.

Understand that the engine WILL blow and if you are okay with dropping 5k on it then great, enjoy the car. If you are not comfortable with this then i would recommend another car."

I'm not so sure about that one. I know a few guys with 8's that have the original motor and well over 100K on the clock. I know a guy with a 12A RX-7 that has over 200K on the original motor. So I don't keep $5K in the bank for a new motor myself. Just because some dumb ass said that won't make it true.

"even with the ecu update, the pre09 engine still suffers from lack of oil nozzle and lack of oil pressure. its better than nothing, but not ideal." It is true the original 8 only had 2 oil nozzles per housing rather then the normal 3. I have no idea why Mazda did that.

"oil needs to be religiously checked every 2 gas fillups (i usually check once a week) and same with coolant needs to be religiously checked, ignoring these can lead to a new engine. " False. I did that the first few months because I had no idea how much to do it.
Now I look at it once a month and add less the half a quart when I do. I've almost got it down to an art about how much to poor in after a month. I only look to make sure.

"spark plugs wires and coils need to be replaced every 30k miles which can get expensive "
The original coils in the 8 did suck ass from everything I've seen on the internet. And most people did change them at around 24-30K.  Mazda did change the coils however and from what I can tell they're fine now. I'm not much on changing parts on cars because I think the OEM stuff is about the best for normal driving. However I will put BHR coils on my car when I feel it's time to replace them. I've seen nothing but good things about them. But my stock coils have over 43K on them and run fine.

As for plugs and wires, I change them at every 24K. But then again I've done that with all the cars I've had regardless of engine.


I'm not saying that the RX-8 hasn't got some problems. Mazda wouldn't have extended the engine warranty on the things if they hadn't had a reason. But I'd be careful of trusting everything you read on the internet. I own an RX-8 and don't even go to that site you listed because that place is full of idiots. On one had you've got the guys who can find no fault in the car and it could blow up and kill their kids and they wouldn't get mad at it. And on the other hand you've got the people who I'm almost sure make up shit to bitch about.

[MrH]

Agreed.  RX8club is awful.

[Raza]

Don't know the site, I just Googled "RX-8 reliability". 

But yeah, I think we can all agree that the RX-8 didn't change the game for anyone. 

[MrH]

It changed the game in my heart

I convinced two people to buy new Mazda 6's in one week.  New Mazda3 comes out in August.  Hopefully they all hit big enough to keep my dreams of the 2017 RX-7 alive.

[Raza]

It changed the game in my heart

I convinced two people to buy new Mazda 6's in one week.  New Mazda3 comes out in August.  Hopefully they all hit big enough to keep my dreams of the 2017 RX-7 alive.

I convinced three of my closest friends to look at Volkswagens and they loved them.  All three bought a VW, going from a Toyota, Volvo, and a Nissan, all three couldn't be happier (interestingly enough, the one with the Maxima was about to buy the new Camry, but then he and his wife drove the new Passat and loved it so much they made a deal basically right on the spot; if the B7 Passat still drove like the B6, they would probably have gone with the Camry).  It's easier to increase allegiance to a brand that's awesome, instead of some bastard child brand that's probably going to fold or end up under Chinese ownership within the next half hour.   

[Onslaught]

It changed the game in my heart

I convinced two people to buy new Mazda 6's in one week.  New Mazda3 comes out in August.  Hopefully they all hit big enough to keep my dreams of the 2017 RX-7 alive.

Keep that going please. I'll need another RX one day too.