C7 Corvette

[12,000 RPM]

C'mon, guys. Just because cars are hi-po or can be driven on the track doesn't mean they are track cars. So, how do we know if it's a track car? I have provided a cheat sheet:

Is it available in convertible form? Not a track car.
Is it available with a slushie A/T? Not a track car.
Does it have forced induction? Not a track car.
And most obviously, does any facet of it - engine, tranny, brakes - run hot or overheat on the track? Not a track car.

R8? F12? F458? M3/M4? 911 Turbo? SLS? Huracan? F-Type R? Viper? None of these are track/race cars, including the game-changing Z06. They are designed to be relatively comfortable hi-po street cars.

There are very few legit track cars available from the factory - Z/28, 911 GT3, F458 Stradale, maybe a scant few others.

Camaro and 911 are available as blown slushie automatics. As is the Exige, which is about as "track car" as you can get.

[hotrodalex]

Camaro and 911 are available as blown slushie automatics. As is the Exige, which is about as "track car" as you can get.

Z28, no.

Exige has an auto?...

[Cookie Monster]

Z28, no.

Exige has an auto?...

Maybe he means Evora?

[GoCougs]

Z28, no.

Exige has an auto?...

Sporty's positing get so tiring - the strawmanism runneth like with no other...

Correct, Z/28 has no slushie option, all variants of the 911 use a DSG, and the Exige I thought was out of production (even if not, and even if avail with a slushie AT, that it has a slushie AT is an automatic DQ from being a track car).

[hotrodalex]

Does tracking void warranty?

[12,000 RPM]

Z28, no.

Exige has an auto?...

Camaro RS, SS and ZL1 come in auto drop forms.

And yea its the Evora with the IPS... Exige S has the V6 now but no IPS (auto)

All of Mercedes' "Black Series" cars are slushies including the drop top SL63 BS.

If these cars aren't designed for the track whats the point?

[hotrodalex]

Yeah none of those are track cars. They're fast and cool performance cars. Can go on a track, but aren't designed to be race cars.

[MX793]

Track cars can't have forced induction?  How many years did F1 cars used turbocharged engines?  And how many open-roof race cars have been built and fielded?  The Arial Atom and KTM X-Bow are pure track-day toys and neither has a roof and both come with forced induction.

[565]

This new Z06 is slow,  slower in fact on the top end than the old C6 Z06

Only it's new sticky tires give it a traction advantage, but it's trap speed and top end acceleration is lack luster

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z062015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-automatic.pdf

The automatic Z06 trapped 127mph in the quarter, which is only 1mph faster than the old Z06 with only 505mph but much less weight

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf

But look at the 0-150mph times,  17.0 seconds for the old Z06, 17.8 seconds for the new one.  In fact the 17.8 time for 0-150mph is the same as the 530hp 2012 GT-R, a car with 120 less HP and 300 pounds more weight and the drag of an AWD system.

And GT-Rs have trapped as high as 126mph before as well
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-nissan-gt-r-test-review

And the manual C7 Z06 is even slower to 150mph, at 18.1 seconds, and has the same 126mph trap speed as the old 505hp Z06
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf


So basically

C7 Z06 auto (127mph trap, 17.8 0-150 time)
C7 Z06 manual (126mph trap 18.1 0-150 time)
C6 Z06 manual (126mph trap 17.0 0-150 time)
GT-R (124-126mph traps, 17.8 0-150 times)


Where is the progress? 
I might as well buy a C6 Z06 and slap some C7 Z06 super sticky road slicks on it and call it a day.

Or get a 2012-15 GT-R, slap some stickier tires on it and run with C7 Z06s all day in a straight line, all while having all weather capability and some back seats.

The silver lining is that maybe this new C7 Z06 will further drive down current C6 Z06 prices, I see some listed at around 35K...

The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.

[Rich]

I'm guessing downforce.

[SVT666]

The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.

It will never happen.

[MX793]

This new Z06 is slow,  slower in fact on the top end than the old C6 Z06

Only it's new sticky tires give it a traction advantage, but it's trap speed and top end acceleration is lack luster

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z062015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-automatic.pdf

The automatic Z06 trapped 127mph in the quarter, which is only 1mph faster than the old Z06 with only 505mph but much less weight

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf

But look at the 0-150mph times,  17.0 seconds for the old Z06, 17.8 seconds for the new one.  In fact the 17.8 time for 0-150mph is the same as the 530hp 2012 GT-R, a car with 120 less HP and 300 pounds more weight and the drag of an AWD system.

And GT-Rs have trapped as high as 126mph before as well
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-nissan-gt-r-test-review

And the manual C7 Z06 is even slower to 150mph, at 18.1 seconds, and has the same 126mph trap speed as the old 505hp Z06
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf


So basically

C7 Z06 auto (127mph trap, 17.8 0-150 time)
C7 Z06 manual (126mph trap 18.1 0-150 time)
C6 Z06 manual (126mph trap 17.0 0-150 time)
GT-R (124-126mph traps, 17.8 0-150 times)


Where is the progress? 
I might as well buy a C6 Z06 and slap some C7 Z06 super sticky road slicks on it and call it a day.

Or get a 2012-15 GT-R, slap some stickier tires on it and run with C7 Z06s all day in a straight line, all while having all weather capability and some back seats.

The silver lining is that maybe this new C7 Z06 will further drive down current C6 Z06 prices, I see some listed at around 35K...

The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.

17 flat was the absolute best time recorded by C&D by a significant margin.  In other tests, it recorded the following:
2006 Full road test (published '05) - 17.5
Comparison with 2006 Viper - 17.9
Comparison with 2008 Viper - 17.5
Comparison with '07 911T and '06 F430 - 17.7

I would have expected the new model, even with the auto, to blow the old out of the water, but it's not really slower, and it is a sample of one.

[FoMoJo]

Where is the progress? 
I might as well buy a C6 Z06 and slap some C7 Z06 super sticky road slicks on it and call it a day.

Or get a 2012-15 GT-R, slap some stickier tires on it and run with C7 Z06s all day in a straight line, all while having all weather capability and some back seats.

The silver lining is that maybe this new C7 Z06 will further drive down current C6 Z06 prices, I see some listed at around 35K...

The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.

Maybe the tires are so sticky that they're gluing to the road and slowing it down.

[GoCougs]

I'm guessing downforce.

.

Maybe the tires are so sticky that they're gluing to the road and slowing it down.

Nailed it. Let's look at the 0-60 (3.0 sec) and 1/4 mile times (11.1 sec @ 127 mph) - those rival the GTR, F458 and 911 Turbo, bests other big names such as the R8 V10, GT3, ZR1, Viper, etc., and that 1/4 mile time blows the C6 Z06 out of the water by ~8-10 car lengths.

This is the story with race cars - big aero and big/sticky meats HUGELY affects top end - minute changes (as in fractions of a mm) in F1 aero adjustment can cut 10 mph or more from top speed. Such cars sacrifice top end performance for traction such that they can stay on the track and judging by the C7 Z06's grip (both in acceleration and road holding) there is huge traction/down force at play.

[GoCougs]

Track cars can't have forced induction?  How many years did F1 cars used turbocharged engines?  And how many open-roof race cars have been built and fielded?  The Arial Atom and KTM X-Bow are pure track-day toys and neither has a roof and both come with forced induction.

So how many factory (i.e., non race) cars have a monocoque/exo chassis, roll bar/cage and exposed engine?

[12,000 RPM]

So how many factory (i.e., non race) cars have a monocoque/exo chassis, roll bar/cage and exposed engine?

Ummm at least 2... the Ariel Atom and the KTM X-Bow... they are both street legal in the UK. Caterams don't have exposed engines but they are in the same class and have been around for ~50 years. Not sure how any of those features turn a "factory" car to a "race" car or why that distinction even matters

Exige, Two Eleven, GT2/3 RS all have roll cages as well. Whats your point homie.

[GoCougs]

My point is if it's a unit body chassis and has forced induction it is not a (factory) "track" car. If you hang your hat on calling those cars "factory" cars you hand me a "W' before its time.  Those are quasi races cars with a license plate. Also, lots of Caterhams run with their side cowlings off and the header and exhaust is exposed.

Despite having existing and more potent (and probably cheaper) alternatives, the Z/28 and GT3 are both fitted with N/A motors. It's for a reason, and that reason is to mitigate heat issues - running hot, overheating and inconsistent performance WRT to heat soak. The C7 Z06 is not a track car BOOM.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Top Gear seems to like it. I need to see what kind of acceleration numbers the base Z06 put up before I pass judgement on the 0-150 numbers...

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/corvette-z06-c7-first-drive-2014-11-25?cm_mmc=ExactTarget-_-email-_-TOP_GEAR_NLT_2014-26-11+-+Control-_-email&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=TOP_GEAR_NLT_2014-26-11+-+Control

[Raza]

I wouldn't buy it to race. I'd buy it to cruise with the top down, drive some nice switchbacks on a sunny day, and enjoy the glorious V8 sounds. The Z06 roadster makes perfect sense to me.

I'd go open top with a basic Corvette.  There are so overpowered for the road anyway, why get even more power for just cruising or hitting 6/10ths or 7/10ths?  (Or in a car this capable, it may even be 4/10ths)

[12,000 RPM]

Yea anyone who buys something like this and doesnt track it regularly is just an asshole. But then to really really track it well you pretty much have to be a race car driver. Its becoming a little absurd.

I'm really surprised how much not faster this thing is compared to the C6 though. 150 more HP and the same quarter mile?

[hotrodalex]

Yeah doing whatever you want with your own possessions makes you an asshole.

[Payman]

I'd go open top with a basic Corvette.  There are so overpowered for the road anyway, why get even more power for just cruising or hitting 6/10ths or 7/10ths?  (Or in a car this capable, it may even be 4/10ths)

Looks better, better equipment, satisfaction with the performance arsenal at your command. See some arrogant twat in a Z4? Pfft. Later, poseur.

[Raza]

Looks better, better equipment, satisfaction with the performance arsenal at your command. See some arrogant twat in a Z4? Pfft. Later, poseur.

Until the decrepit Corvette driver crashes it while reaching for his Metamucil.   

[SVT666]

Until the decrepit Corvette driver crashes it while reaching for his Metamucil.   

Or until the Vette overheats.

[12,000 RPM]

Yeah doing whatever you want with your own possessions makes you an asshole.

It does. There are kids who would love some track time in a Z06. Meanwhile the most action many will see are some out of control burnouts (and crashes) at Corvette meets.

[hotrodalex]

I sincerely hope you're joking.

[CALL_911]

He has to be

[MX793]

So how many factory (i.e., non race) cars have a monocoque/exo chassis, roll bar/cage and exposed engine?

The KTM X-Bow and Arial Atom are both "factory" vehicles.  There are a handful of cars from the "major" manufacturers with roll cages installed from the factory as well (911 GT3 RS, Lotus Exige, Aston Martin Vantage N24).

But that's not the point.  You said that no car with forced induction is a "track car", yet it doesn't get more "track car" than purpose built race car and there have been many, many purpose-built race cars, as well as "mass produced" track-day toys (Atom, X-Bow) that use forced induction and factory-backed, production-based (homologated) racing efforts in numerous GT car series that ran turbo-charged or supercharged motors.

[Raza]

The KTM X-Bow and Arial Atom are both "factory" vehicles.  There are a handful of cars from the "major" manufacturers with roll cages installed from the factory as well (911 GT3 RS, Lotus Exige, Aston Martin Vantage N24).

But that's not the point.  You said that no car with forced induction is a "track car", yet it doesn't get more "track car" than purpose built race car and there have been many, many purpose-built race cars, as well as "mass produced" track-day toys (Atom, X-Bow) that use forced induction and factory-backed, production-based (homologated) racing efforts in numerous GT car series that ran turbo-charged or supercharged motors.

I believe F1 cars are turbocharged now.  Which makes it a single-seat Camry, effectively, and not appropriate for track use.

[GoCougs]

Ignoring the "and" I see. Why do you guys do this? It's not like people can't see.