C7 Corvette

[r0tor]

I wonder if it has something to do with a shitty design

[FlatBlackCaddy]

God GM is such a shit show, it's embarrassing.

[Soup DeVille]

I wonder if it has something to do with a shitty design

My gut feeling is that its a good design hamstrung by fearful and misunderstanding bean counters. Which is of course, a trademark of GMness.

[FoMoJo]

Supercars are known to be "finicky".

[Raza]

Supercars are known to be "finicky".

But supercars aren't known to be made by Chevrolet and based on $50,000 cars.   

[12,000 RPM]

My gut feeling is that its a good design hamstrung by fearful and misunderstanding bean counters. Which is of course, a trademark of GMness.

Its a sad refrain

GM thinks its German.... they dont have the luxury of perpetually fucking up, they cashed out all their reputation dollars decades ago

[SVT666]

GM is an embarrassing shit show right now.  Mary Barra must be the sacrificial lamb.

[MrH]

I can pretty much guarantee the bean counters have absolutely nothing to do with the tuning maps of cars

"Hmmm, my spreadsheets are saying you should retard the timing an extra 3 degrees during the following conditions for maximum profitability"


More likely:  The engineers couldn't pass an internal durability spec or emissions under certain conditions and did this to pass. 

[FoMoJo]

Maybe the pushrods refused to cooperate with the cam phasing .

[GoCougs]

I can pretty much guarantee the bean counters have absolutely nothing to do with the tuning maps of cars

"Hmmm, my spreadsheets are saying you should retard the timing an extra 3 degrees during the following conditions for maximum profitability"


More likely:  The engineers couldn't pass an internal durability spec or emissions under certain conditions and did this to pass. 

Oh, I think the bean counters definitely get involved. Enter Ford's TSB stating so much as an aftermarket exhaust will void the power train warranty on 2011+ 5.0 Mustangs. Bean counters I'm sure got tired of having to deal $$$ with fighting warranty abusers/violators.

GM is changing the high performance game with the Z06 (and other cars) but that doesn't mean it's a race car or can otherwise be used at the whim and fancy by 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob deciding to do whatever it is he feels like (like 1 minute burnouts with essentially 0 miles on the clock).

[SVT666]

Oh, I think the bean counters definitely get involved. Enter Ford's TSB stating so much as an aftermarket exhaust will void the power train warranty on 2011+ 5.0 Mustangs. Bean counters I'm sure got tired of having to deal $$$ with fighting warranty abusers/violators.

This has nothing to do with aftermarket anything though.  These are completely stock cars.  GM thought they could get away with this, which tells me GM is being run by morons.  No car mag is going to do a comparison test with a GT3 and not state, "The GT3 ran consistently lap after lap, while the Z06 sat in the pits after every lap so it could cool down and the ECU could reset the iginition timing".  GM is so incompetent they deserve this.

GM is changing the high performance game with the Z06 (and other cars) but that doesn't mean it's a race car or can otherwise be used at the whim and fancy by 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob deciding to do whatever it is he feels like (like 1 minute burnouts with essentially 0 miles on the clock).

You're right.  GM is changing the high performance game with the Z06.  Never before has a high performance car been able to do a single highway acceleration run and then lose a shit ton of power and not be able to replicate the feat.

[565]

This has nothing to do with aftermarket anything though.  These are completely stock cars.  GM thought they could get away with this, which tells me GM is being run by morons.  No car mag is going to do a comparison test with a GT3 and not state, "The GT3 ran consistently lap after lap, while the Z06 sat in the pits after every lap so it could cool down and the ECU could reset the iginition timing".  GM is so incompetent they deserve this.

You are assuming the GT3 won't catch fire first.

[MX793]

Oh, I think the bean counters definitely get involved. Enter Ford's TSB stating so much as an aftermarket exhaust will void the power train warranty on 2011+ 5.0 Mustangs. Bean counters I'm sure got tired of having to deal $$$ with fighting warranty abusers/violators.

GM is changing the high performance game with the Z06 (and other cars) but that doesn't mean it's a race car or can otherwise be used at the whim and fancy by 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob deciding to do whatever it is he feels like (like 1 minute burnouts with essentially 0 miles on the clock).

It doesn't say said modifications will void your warranty, it says they "could".  Pretty much any automaker will have similar policies regarding modifications and voiding the warranty.  I'd be willing to bet that if you went looking, you'd find that GM has issued a similar TSB for any or all of their performance cars.

[GoCougs]

It doesn't say said modifications will void your warranty, it says they "could".  Pretty much any automaker will have similar policies regarding modifications and voiding the warranty.  I'd be willing to bet that if you went looking, you'd find that GM has issued a similar TSB for any or all of their performance cars.

Of course all automakers do - they'd be irresponsible if they didn't - making and selling cars is a business just like any other and to compete takes spending money on the right things. The Mustang case was hilarious in its uproar in illustrating the entitlement of owners. Ford isn't going to spend money on an engine design to hedge against how an owner might modify it, and as design and engineering methods get more precise with each passing year, the less room there will be for owners to muck about with what they think is a good thing to do.

[Soup DeVille]

I can pretty much guarantee the bean counters have absolutely nothing to do with the tuning maps of cars

"Hmmm, my spreadsheets are saying you should retard the timing an extra 3 degrees during the following conditions for maximum profitability"


More likely:  The engineers couldn't pass an internal durability spec or emissions under certain conditions and did this to pass. 

Or, they predicted a higher probability of failure than was asked for, and then made a quick and dirty low cost solution.

In other words, the engineers were probably told that the new super high performance engine had to meet the same internal durability tests as the Impala; so they did what they could.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

 
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/to-overcome-the-z06s-power-robbing-ecu-just-break-it-in-says-chevy-follow-up/

[MrH]

Lol. God, I hope that's the case. That's awesome.

[GoCougs]

That's unfair - 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob wants his race car NOW.

[GoCougs]

Or, they predicted a higher probability of failure than was asked for, and then made a quick and dirty low cost solution.

In other words, the engineers were probably told that the new super high performance engine had to meet the same internal durability tests as the Impala; so they did what they could.

Nah. Robust engine design is relatively easy to do, and even if it weren't, a big team of engine and power train engineers isn't going to not discover a flaw only to "fix" it with a band aid right before release.

[GoCougs]

Lol. God, I hope that's the case. That's awesome.

I call shins. The Internets plainly know more about this - the Z06 has 'rods that must be protected.

[SVT666]

I call shins.

Shens

[SVT666]

 
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/to-overcome-the-z06s-power-robbing-ecu-just-break-it-in-says-chevy-follow-up/

If that's all it takes, then why did GM state owners had to get an after market tune to change this?  Either GM's management has no idea what their engineering team did (poor management), they didn't even ask the GM engineers what the solution was before making a public statement (poor management), or GM's engineering team sucks (poor management). Honestly, it could be all three in that company.

[SVT666]

In any case, I have never heard of a car doing anything like this before, even cars with much more power. It's inexcusable no matter the reason.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Shens

Shims

[Soup DeVille]

Nah. Robust engine design is relatively easy to do, and even if it weren't, a big team of engine and power train engineers isn't going to not discover a flaw only to "fix" it with a band aid right before release.

Hey, Cougs; this is GM. Have you guys met before?

[12,000 RPM]

That's unfair - 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob wants his race car NOW.

In any case, I have never heard of a car doing anything like this before, even cars with much more power. It's inexcusable no matter the reason.

Not hearing about it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. Vette buyers just happen to be a very dyno happy bunch. I dont think there is ANY car that can be run 100% out of the box- most of em have suggested user-enforced redlines. If anything this is smart- GM knows its market. Let em do douchebag burnouts out of the dealership and take it to redline but keep the engine safe. 500 miles is like 2 tanks of gas.... its not that serious.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Not hearing about it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. Vette buyers just happen to be a very dyno happy bunch. I dont think there is ANY car that can be run 100% out of the box- most of em have suggested user-enforced redlines. If anything this is smart- GM knows its market. Let em do douchebag burnouts out of the dealership and take it to redline but keep the engine safe. 500 miles is like 2 tanks of gas.... its not that serious.

I saw an article somewhere on a Challenger Hellcat that needed 3 fans just to make conststant Dyno pulls. Apparently The Hellcat can be ordered WITHOUT a front grill to help keep it cool...

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Make that 5 fans...
http://blogs.motortrend.com/1408_dyno_mighty_challenger_srt_hellcat_camaro_zl1_hit_the_rollers.html

[Soup DeVille]

I saw an article somewhere on a Challenger Hellcat that needed 3 fans just to make conststant Dyno pulls. Apparently The Hellcat can be ordered WITHOUT a front grill to help keep it cool...

Not surprised. The certification dynos at Chelsea had fans on them that outweighed most of the vehicles.

It must be noted though, that none of these cars were ever designed to go flat out while sitting still.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

True..