How much do you spend on Payments??

[AutobahnSHO]

I hear you. It's why I can't have a wife. That money is for me and my toys!!!!!

There are advantages. But man you really pay for it......

[2o6]

No, I think most Americans COULD pay cash on cheaper cars. That so many don't is part of our massive debt problem.

I'm part of it right now. My car spending wasn't totally reckless, but I don't have emergency savings and no retirement or house savings either.   BUT I can pick which car to take to work tomorrow morning.

Most cars that you can pay cash for, suck balls.

[AutobahnSHO]

Not to get personal, sounds like you and your wife need to get on the same page financially though.

Tell me about it. There are threads and threads about it. I should have known when I was giving her rent money before we got married.

First time I deployed (May2007) we were getting about $800 extra/month over regular payment. I took a $200/month allowance and she had the rest.  I went home for Leave in the middle and she had charged $6,000+ and had nothing to show for it. I lost it.

Before the 2011 deployment I told her if she charged anything she would be looking at divorce.  We got into a fight 2 days ago because she charged $60.
me: "NEVER AGAIN!"
her: But I'll pay it off this check.
me: then DON'T CHARGE. Wait a week for the next check.
her: ok
me: (knows she'll do it again)

She just doesn't understand saving. She can save when there's a vacation coming up or whatever, then when it's done, BAM! she spends every last penny every two weeks until the next check comes in. Speaking of, I need to go change some finances right now. I have a direct deposit that needs to get upped to the other (my) account...

[AutobahnSHO]

Most cars that you can pay cash for, suck balls.

NO.
They're just older and higher mileage. All of mine have been near pristine interior with a few bumps on the outside. People get scared of the mileage but all of mine have easily done a few years with minimal service.

Still wish I'd changed the rod bearings on the SHO as "regular maintenance".     And shouldn't have driven the Subaru with the CEL on for months.

[MrH]

Yikes.  Do you guys have a budget you've created together?

[2o6]

NO.
They're just older and higher mileage. All of mine have been near pristine interior with a few bumps on the outside. People get scared of the mileage but all of mine have easily done a few years with minimal service.

Still wish I'd changed the rod bearings on the SHO as "regular maintenance".     And shouldn't have driven the Subaru with the CEL on for months.

Have you shopped lately? Like within the past year? Anything that below 5K is usually crap. Higher mileage cars are coming upon unknown services, and arguably buyers today are more ignorant of how cars work so nothing has been done. Everything I looked at in the 3-4 range wasn't good.

[hotrodalex]

Have you shopped lately? Like within the past year? Anything that below 5K is usually crap. Higher mileage cars are coming upon unknown services, and arguably buyers today are more ignorant of how cars work so nothing has been done. Everything I looked at in the 3-4 range wasn't good.

This summer my brother's budget was originally like $5-6k but nothing in that range was as good as the Saturn, so it didn't make any sense to sell a decent car and get one in the same or worse shape. Had to bump the budget up to $9-10k to get to the decent cars.

[2o6]

This summer my brother's budget was originally like $5-6k but nothing in that range was as good as the Saturn, so it didn't make any sense to sell a decent car and get one in the same or worse shape. Had to bump the budget up to $9-10k to get to the decent cars.

It's gotten worse, although it seems like it's starting to settle to where it was. My car has appreciated in value since I bought it last March.

[AutobahnSHO]

Have you shopped lately? Like within the past year? Anything that below 5K is usually crap. Higher mileage cars are coming upon unknown services, and arguably buyers today are more ignorant of how cars work so nothing has been done. Everything I looked at in the 3-4 range wasn't good.

See Madman's shed of the week thread. But yes, the market changed drastically the last year or two. So I would concede you have to go up to $5k to get what I would have paid $3k for previously.

Obviously I was never shopping reputable dealers anyway. And I generally shopped around for months.

[2o6]

See Madman's shed of the week thread. But yes, the market changed drastically the last year or two. So I would concede you have to go up to $5k to get what I would have paid $3k for previously.

Obviously I was never shopping reputable dealers anyway. And I generally shopped around for months.

Most of the cars in Madman's SOTW aren't very good.

[J86]

$0.

[AutobahnSHO]

My car has appreciated in value since I bought it last March.

Weird, my Subaru has gone from $2500 about a year or two ago up to $3000. Miata is about the same as 6months ago ($2k). Sienna has dropped from $9k in 2009 now to $6k. But we also went from 122k miles to 162k miles in that time on the van.

And, the last time I checked bluebook values I lived in Georgia. So maybe the Subaru went up because of the difference in weather??
((When I do ebay or cars.com searches for Subarus within a 500mile radius, there are always a TON for sale in the Knoxville, TN area, a couple hours from here.))

[AutobahnSHO]

Most of the cars in Madman's SOTW aren't very good.

Most would be fairly reliable transportation. Of course they're not fabulous!

[2o6]

Most would be fairly reliable transportation. Of course they're not fabulous!

Most of them are problematic prone European cars, a handful of Daewoos in drag (even worse) or the occasional Focus (hit or miss).




They generally aren't great.

[AutobahnSHO]

Most of them are problematic prone European cars, a handful of Daewoos in drag (even worse) or the occasional Focus (hit or miss).

They generally aren't great.

His taste is off sometimes, but they are quite often cars that could last 2-3yrs with minimal work.  And at $5k.

[Payman]

Haven't had a car payment in 10 years... won't for foreseeable future.

[Rupert]

Nada.

[Colin]

I would be fascinated to get some detailed statistics on this across the market as a whole.

My guess is that the average family is paying an absolute fortune, as back in the days when the 1.6L repmobile dominated the roads of the UK, an awful lot of these were acquired on HP. Now that Mr Snob-Average insists on a "premium" car, and has a second car on the driveway as well, even though average salaries and standards of living have risen a bit, they are nothing like enough to compensate for all those BMWs, Audis, Mercedes and SUVs that people who once would have had a Cortina or Cavalier now drive.  I would guess that he/she is paying a lot more in percentage terms for the cars than Cortina-man ever did....... Thanks to relatively available and perceived cheap credit, people have been living way beyond their means for years now and a lot of them are in for one hell of a shock when they retire and find that they have negligible income and vast debt. 

Oh, and to answer the original question, I bought the Abarth for cash. I looked at the low interest finance deals that were on offer at the time, and then looked at the low interest my money would attract if I spread the payments and it was a no brainer not to borrow. The Audi is a company leased vehicle. 

[Rich]

I would be fascinated to get some detailed statistics on this across the market as a whole.

My guess is that the average family is paying an absolute fortune, as back in the days when the 1.6L repmobile dominated the roads of the UK, an awful lot of these were acquired on HP. Now that Mr Snob-Average insists on a "premium" car, and has a second car on the driveway as well, even though average salaries and standards of living have risen a bit, they are nothing like enough to compensate for all those BMWs, Audis, Mercedes and SUVs that people who once would have had a Cortina or Cavalier now drive.  I would guess that he/she is paying a lot more in percentage terms for the cars than Cortina-man ever did....... Thanks to relatively available and perceived cheap credit, people have been living way beyond their means for years now and a lot of them are in for one hell of a shock when they retire and find that they have negligible income and vast debt. 

Oh, and to answer the original question, I bought the Abarth for cash. I looked at the low interest finance deals that were on offer at the time, and then looked at the low interest my money would attract if I spread the payments and it was a no brainer not to borrow. The Audi is a company leased vehicle. 

I have no idea how all of these really nice cars are being driven here.  You'd think 80% of the country was a CEO or doctor with the costs of these cars to include taxes

[Madman]

I was lusting over BRZ and was shocked at the payment calculators. With 10% down if you want to 5yr finance it's close to $400/month!!  Do people really pay that much for cars???

Unfortunately, yes.  Some people pay much, much more.

As for me, I haven't had to make a car payment since 1995 and that's just fine by me.

Have you shopped lately? Like within the past year? Anything that below 5K is usually crap. Higher mileage cars are coming upon unknown services, and arguably buyers today are more ignorant of how cars work so nothing has been done. Everything I looked at in the 3-4 range wasn't good.

See Madman's shed of the week thread. But yes, the market changed drastically the last year or two. So I would concede you have to go up to $5k to get what I would have paid $3k for previously.

Obviously I was never shopping reputable dealers anyway. And I generally shopped around for months.

Most of the cars in Madman's SOTW aren't very good.

Most would be fairly reliable transportation. Of course they're not fabulous!

Most of them are problematic prone European cars, a handful of Daewoos in drag (even worse) or the occasional Focus (hit or miss).




They generally aren't great.

His taste is off sometimes, but they are quite often cars that could last 2-3yrs with minimal work.  And at $5k.

Good or not, SOTW shows what can be bought in the sub-$5,000 bargain basement.  Not every car is going to be an undiscovered future classic in waiting.  Some will be decent, others less so.  But I think it provides a snapshot of where the used (very used, in this case!) car market is right now.  The fact that in five years I've had to raise the Shed budget from $3,000 to $5,000 speaks volumes about where the market is going.

As for the cars themselves, I'll admit personal taste does play a role, but not as much as you might think.  For example, anything Japanese usually goes for silly money and is typically above the Shed budget.  Same goes for the premium German triplets of Audi, BMW and Mercedes.  So what does that leave?  Second-tier Europeans like Jaguar, Volvo and Saab plus most run-of-the-mill domestics and a smattering of Korean Krud from the days before they discovered quality.  Sure, ex-rental Ford Tauruses may be plentiful in this price bracket but I wouldn't consider paying good money for one, even at gunpoint!

[AutobahnSHO]

As for the cars themselves, I'll admit personal taste does play a role, but not as much as you might think.  ...  Sure, ex-rental Ford Tauruses may be plentiful in this price bracket but I wouldn't consider paying good money for one, even at gunpoint!

See, your personal preference excludes what the majority of Americans buy/"need".
My second and third cars were 7-8 year old Tauruses. $2k in 1998. Wifey just wanted an automatic sedan. First one got totalled 4months after we bought it so we got another.. Sure they're boring but they're cars. Domestics are NOT as un-dependable compared to a Japanese car as they would have you believe.

I'm not saying I would be looking for a boring domestic sedan, but they're out there reasonably priced. It's hard to find what you like in the lower-priced markets.  Try finding a Miata- bluebook says mine is $2100 but good luck finding one in good condition at that price. And mine had the clutch replaced and a used transmission installed in Jan2012...

[Madman]

See, your personal preference excludes what the majority of Americans buy/"need".
My second and third cars were 7-8 year old Tauruses. $2k in 1998. Wifey just wanted an automatic sedan. First one got totalled 4months after we bought it so we got another.. Sure they're boring but they're cars. Domestics are NOT as un-dependable compared to a Japanese car as they would have you believe.

I'm not saying I would be looking for a boring domestic sedan, but they're out there reasonably priced. It's hard to find what you like in the lower-priced markets.  Try finding a Miata- bluebook says mine is $2100 but good luck finding one in good condition at that price. And mine had the clutch replaced and a used transmission installed in Jan2012...

Reliability-wise, the Taurus is a decent enough car.  My mother had a 1997 Taurus prior to her Mercury Mystique and my sister currently has one of the last 2007 fleet-only old-shape models (and had a 1999 Taurus before that), so I'm pretty familiar with them.  But, if ever there were a car explicitly designed to be a rented appliance, this was it!  Yeah, it does the job, but that's all.

[Lebowski]

That's unrealistic for 90% of the population.

Driving a basic, utilitarian car is unrealistic?

[Lebowski]

$0, same monthly payment I always have had and always will have.

[Raza]

The Jetta was like $250 (when I was financing it) and the Z4 is like $380.  Hopefully with this bonus I will pay a big chunk of that down though.  I want to pay it off early. 

[SJ_GTI]

No payment for me, paid cash for my car. Only car I didn't pay cash for was when I bought an A4 while living in Montreal, but that was a matter of me not wanting to move my USD funds to Canada.

FWIW, no one in my immediate family has a car payment. My older brother drives a Prious that he bought used, my younger brothers drive a GTI (which he bought from me when I bought my S4) and a Tiburon (bought used about 5-6 years ago, and he is still driving it with 200k on the clock). My dad drives a used 1990's Camry, my mom drives a 2005 TSX. She did finance part of her purchase, but paid it off a few years ago and will probably drive it in to the ground.

I think the idea of leasing/financing cars is a learned behavior and if people wanted to they could, in many cases, not have a car payment (or only have them occasionally). Growing up my parents always bought their cars (rather than financing them) so, for me, I have only ever really considered cars I could afford to "buy." FWIW my first 4 car purchases were all used cars, although they were increasingly "newer" as my purchasing ability increased.

First car: Used 1984 Buick Skyhawk (paid ~1000 bucks after graduating HS)
Second Car: 1989 Oldsmobile Toronado (paid ~3000 bucks, purchased while still in college after the buick was no longer drivable...I really liked this car!)
Third car: 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix (paid ~8000 bucks, was my first car purchase after having a full time job)
Fourth car: 2001 BMW Z3 (paid ~20,000 bucks, was my first foray in to luxury cars)
Fifth car: 2005 Audi A4 (financed, believe the sale price was ~55k CAD, of which I put ~20k CAD down and financed the rest so I could leave the bulk of my money in the US)
Sixth car: 2008 VW GTI (paid ~27k, wanted to try a non-luxury make that was fun to drive)
Current car: 2010 Audi S4 (paid ~52k, wanted to go back to a luxury vehicle, but still be fun to drive)

Looking back, my biggest "mistake" was definitely the Audi while living in Montreal. I didn't know the rules around importing/exporting cars between coutries so I thought I had to buy a car in Canada. What I should have done was buy a car in the US and take it with me to Canada (FWIW when I moved to Toronto a few years later I took my GTI, which was purchased in the US, with me). Live and learn!

[SVT666]

The car has to be have been bought over a year prior to the move to avoid taxes at the border

[sportyaccordy]

Bought the bike and all the goodies cash. Paid all the repairs cash too. Altogether I am in about $7000 on the bike over the last year and a half.

Never ever ever wanna have a car payment. No new cars appeal to me enough to sign myself into slavery, and I am more than comfortable with maintaining an old heap. Plus with bikes I can keep the miles down, which opens things up and saves on gas and consumables. I don't even know what I'm gonna get once me and wifey are settled... there's a lot of options and I have a lot of ideas.

[Lebowski]

I think the idea of leasing/financing cars is a learned behavior and if people wanted to they could, in many cases, not have a car payment (or only have them occasionally). Growing up my parents always bought their cars (rather than financing them) so, for me, I have only ever really considered cars I could afford to "buy." FWIW my first 4 car purchases were all used cars, although they were increasingly "newer" as my purchasing ability increased.

I agree it is a learned behavior. Your family sounds a lot like mine in this regard, my parents always paid cash when I was growing up and always drove mundane cars relative their peers of comparable income, and kept them for a longer time too.  I was just brought up under the idea, if you can't comfortably pay for something outright then don't buy it (a house being the obvious exception). I realize this isn't possible for everyone, but those people who must finance would be better off driving something pedestrian and save to pay cash for the next one ... But that's not the American way.

[Xer0]

If you can get good financing I see no problem with a car loan.  My civic is at 1.9 which is pretty low.  My friend has a car loan in the teens which I think is stupid in comparison.  He also put no money down so he is swamped by car payments.  Personally, I never want to go over like 300 a month in car payments and definitely not at a high interest rate.