Question for Engineers - Why do some cars suck?

[ifcar]

Was the Aveo really that bad of a car, considering it's price?

Let's compare a base 2009 Aveo5 to what is arguably the best B-segment hatch you can buy, the 2009 Honda Fit.

2009 Chevrolet Aveo5 LS: $11,965.

2009 Honda Fit base:   $14,750.

A $2,785 difference on what are already fairly inexpensive cars is a considerably large difference.  But the difference on what you actually pay will be more than that.  The Chevy buyer would almost have certainly received a manufacturer rebate plus a discount from the dealer.  Would the Honda Fit buyer get either of these?  For an exceedingly popular car which was, and continues to be, in short supply?  Fat chance!

By the time it's all said and done, the new Aveo buyer would have paid well over three grand less than the Fit buyer.  For someone on a tight budget, this could make all the difference in the world.

Sure, it's no contest which is the better car.  All things being equal, I'd pick the Fit every time.  And so would all of you, too.  But a $3K (possibly close to $4K) difference in price means you really can't judge these cars by the same set of standards.  Considering the Aveo was marketed as an inexpensive, bare bones transportation appliance, was it really that bad?

An $11,995 Aveo had no a/c, crank windows and no ABS. It actually carried little to no sticker price advantage over a comparably equipped Fit, and discounts weren't nearly as big as they should have been.

[Laconian]

It's stating the obvious, but some manufacturers have an easier time of getting more for the money - better processes, less expensive labor, modern manufacturing tech, better engineers, blahblahblah

[SVT666]

It's stating the obvious, but some manufacturers have an easier time of getting more for the money - better processes, less expensive labor, modern manufacturing tech, better engineers, blahblahblah

Better management making better decisions.

[MrH]

Manipulated currency too

[Laconian]

Manipulated currency too

How can Dacia do it, then, seeing that they also use the Euro?

[MrH]

Dacia has almost zero tooling costs.  They're just old platforms and vehicles, slightly changed.  Makes things a whole lot cheaper when you can build everything in Eastern Europe with free tooling.

[Madman]

How can Dacia do it, then, seeing that they also use the Euro?

I'm sure cheap Romanian labour has a lot to do with it.

[Laconian]

Dacia has almost zero tooling costs.  They're just old platforms and vehicles, slightly changed.  Makes things a whole lot cheaper when you can build everything in Eastern Europe with free tooling.

And GM made J-body cars for how long?

[Colin]

How can Dacia do it, then, seeing that they also use the Euro?

No they don't.

Roumania is in the EU but still has its own currency. 

[MX793]

It's not a engineering question but a product management question. The question wasn't, How do we build a great subcompact?, the question was, We can't afford to design an all-new subcompact for the USDM so how do we sell succompacts in the USDM?

+1.  A design will only be as good as it is funded to be.  Give me unlimited funds and resources, and I'll produce the greatest car ever seen.  Give me $5000 and a roll of duct tape, and you're going to get a POS.

[MX793]

I would also make the distinction between poorly designed/engineered and poorly made.  A well engineered design can still be a POS if it is poorly made, and a poorly designed item can be very well made.

[Raza]

No they don't.

Roumania is in the EU but still has its own currency.

That's right.  They use chickens.  It's their main food source and their currency. 

(inside joke with my Romanian friends)

They use the Leu.  Swift code is RON.  Roughly 3.5 RON to 1 USD. 

I'm going to Romania next year.   

[Raza]

+1.  A design will only be as good as it is funded to be.  Give me unlimited funds and resources, and I'll produce the greatest car ever seen.  Give me $5000 and a roll of duct tape, and you're going to get a POS.

This is the exact pitch the designer of the Aveo made to the GM bosses. 

[Laconian]

That's right.  They use chickens.  It's their main food source and their currency. 

(inside joke with my Romanian friends)

They use the Leu.  Swift code is RON.  Roughly 3.5 RON to 1 USD. 

I'm going to Romania next year.   

You are? What for?

My Romanian teammate keeps talking shit about his country. Over lunch I ask him open ended questions like "what types of food are good in Romania?" and he says in his usual understated way, "Jack shit. Romanian food is fucking terrible. I guess the only thing that is even remotely edible is pickled vegetables, because it seems that we're good at pickling shit, but everything else? Nuh-uh."

[Raza]

You are? What for?

My Romanian teammate keeps talking shit about his country. Over lunch I ask him open ended questions like "what types of food are good in Romania?" and he says in his usual understated way, "Jack shit. Romanian food is fucking terrible. I guess the only thing that is even remotely edible is pickled vegetables, because it seems that we're good at pickling shit, but everything else? Nuh-uh."

I'm going to be the best man in my Romanian friend's wedding.  Assuming his girl says yes when he proposes next week. 

[MexicoCityM3]

I'm going to be the best man in my Romanian friend's wedding.  Assuming his girl says yes when he proposes next week. 

Romanian chicks are hot. You should get married over there too. Nail a friend of the bride.

[Raza]

Romanian chicks are hot. You should get married over there too. Nail a friend of the bride.

That is the plan.