Bye bye VQ on the Q50....

[280Z Turbo]

I know several people who have had multiple Saabs.  One guy I know even bought the same car over again in a stick.  Later model year, but the same generation.

I almost bought a Saab at the time I was looking for the Focus. It was a '99 9-3. 50,000 miles, 5 speed, turbo, 2 door, metallic blue with tan interior. Looked clean as a whistle.

I dodged a bullet. The Saab would have been a lot more interesting, but the Focus still runs. I'm not sure I could say the same for that particular car.

[afty]

That was my point. Most people couldn't articulate the intricacies of what makes a car "feel good" but you know the inherent, intangible differences between one car and another simply by driving it.

My wife is no car enthusiast, but she loves driving my G35 and gives me crap about how I get to drive the fun car while she has the family mobile (a
Sorento).  I doubt she could articulate why she likes it, aside from maybe the power, but she can certainly tell it's a more entertaining car than either her car or our old Altima.

[cawimmer430]

A stripper entry luxury car without luxury features...how is that more of a luxury car than a loaded mainstreamer with more luxury features?

Most entry-level luxury cars today, especially those sold in North America, are equipped with a bunch of features that the average owner will never ever use.

[cawimmer430]

In many cases, their feature content is no better than a mid-level mainstream vehicle.  I will give you the standard feature list for 2 vehicles.  One is an entry-level "luxury" car.  One is a mid-level trim of a mainstream car.  The price difference between these two is $5,000.  You tell me which is the luxury car and which is the mainstream car.

Car A:
Engine:  4-cylinder, 180 hp
Transmission:  Automatic w/ manual mode
Exterior features:
-Power adjustable mirrors, manual folding
-Halogen headlamps
-17" Alloy wheels
-Automatic windshield wipers
-Automatic headlights
Interior features:
-Manual adjustable seats
-Vinyl seating surfaces
-Trip computer
-Automatic, dual-zone climate control
-Power windows
-Power locks
-Tilt/telescope steering column
-Smart key w/ Driver memory settings
-Dynamic cruise control
-Bluetooth hands-free support
-Steering wheel mounted audio and cruise controls
-AM/FM/CD/MP3 stereo with aux input and HD radio

Car B
Engine:  4-cylinder, 200 hp
Transmission:  Automatic w/ manual mode
Exterior features:
-Power adjustable, heated mirrors, power folding
-17" alloy wheels
-Halogen headlamps
Interior features:
-Power front seats
-Heated and cooled front seats
-Heated rear seats
-Leather seating surfaces
-Driver's memory seat
-Heated steering wheel
-Trip computer
-Power windows
-Power locks
-Power sunroof
-Bluetooth hands-free phone support
-Steering wheel mounted audio and cruise controls
-Cooled glove box
-Cruise control
-Rearview camera
-AM/FM/CD/MP3 stereo with aux input and HD radio (w/ voice commands)

I would guess that Car B is the mainstream car and that Car A is the luxury car. You want to make a point that Car B is cheaper, has more power and has the same or more features as Car A, right?

[2o6]

Most entry-level luxury cars today, especially those sold in North America, are equipped with a bunch of features that the average owner will never ever use.

No.


I would actually agree if you argued things like build quality, and intangibles such as solidarity and other things that a mainstreamer can't match.

[TurboDan]

No.


I would actually agree if you argued things like build quality, and intangibles such as solidarity and other things that a mainstreamer can't match.

Yeah, the luxury brands can actually be pretty stingy with features. In the LR2, for example, satellite radio was an option with the premium stereo. Fortunately, the original owner of mine ordered it, but satrad is pretty much standard on most mainstream vehicles these days.

I don't think MB offered CD players standard until the early 2000s.

[Raza]

Yeah, the luxury brands can actually be pretty stingy with features. In the LR2, for example, satellite radio was an option with the premium stereo. Fortunately, the original owner of mine ordered it, but satrad is pretty much standard on most mainstream vehicles these days.

I don't think MB offered CD players standard until the early 2000s.

My E class was a 2002 and did not have a standard CD player. 

[Laconian]

:monoclepopsoff:

[TurboDan]

My E class was a 2002 and did not have a standard CD player. 

Yeah. Can't speak for the E, but I know the SL didn't get it standard until the R230 came out in '03.

[SVT666]

That's because old people are usually the last people to adopt new technology and are usually the only ones who can afford an E class.  I will not be one of those people.  I have promised myself that I will be an early adopter or at least aadopt new technology at the same time as everyone else so as not to be left behind and become a grumpy codger.

[Raza]

That's because old people are usually the last people to adopt new technology and are usually the only ones who can afford an E class.  I will not be one of those people.  I have promised myself that I will be an early adopter or at least aadopt new technology at the same time as everyone else so as not to be left behind and become a grumpy codger.

CDs weren't new in 2002!

Plus, I'm not talking about an optional changer over a single disc standard.  Single disc wasn't even available.  It was a $600 CD changer or the radio. 

My 2004 Passat had single disc in-dash standard and was less than half the price of my E class.

[Laconian]

Heh, my aunt and uncle would always buy luxury cars optioned to the gills but would never know how to operate any of the toys. I imagine the CD changer was lost on most MB buyers at the time.

[MX793]

That's because old people are usually the last people to adopt new technology and are usually the only ones who can afford an E class.  I will not be one of those people.  I have promised myself that I will be an early adopter or at least aadopt new technology at the same time as everyone else so as not to be left behind and become a grumpy codger.

I'm pretty sure my grandparents' 2000 Lincoln had a standard CD player.  My parents' 2000 300M had a standard CD player (theirs had the optional in-dash changer).

[cawimmer430]

No.


I would actually agree if you argued things like build quality, and intangibles such as solidarity and other things that a mainstreamer can't match.

Compared to Europe, an entry-level luxury car sold in the US has more standard features. And I'd argue that part of the appeal of a luxury car are also intangible features such as presumed better build quality, safety, badge appeal etc.

These days buying a premium car is becoming more and more an emotional decision. Mainstream cars have caught up/on in terms of features and are themselves already "near luxury" in terms of features.

[CJ]

Safety?  Did you see how poorly the 3-Series, A4, Lexus IS, and Mercedes C-Class did in the small overlap test?  The Honda Accord, Acura TL, and Volvo S60 did exceptionally well, as did many other regular cars.

IIHS crash test results for midsize family cars

[MexicoCityM3]

The F30 series is a 5 star Euro-NCAP car, so unsafe it isn't. I don't know about the rest.

[CJ]

2012 BMW 3 series small overlap test


Marginal.

[cawimmer430]

Safety?  Did you see how poorly the 3-Series, A4, Lexus IS, and Mercedes C-Class did in the small overlap test?  The Honda Accord, Acura TL, and Volvo S60 did exceptionally well, as did many other regular cars.

IIHS crash test results for midsize family cars

I'm so going to buy an Acura TL now!


NOT. Not available here. 

[SJ_GTI]

I considered buying a Saab 9-3 once. It drove very well and I loved the style, but I just couldn't bring myslf to spend that much on a FWD car (and the dealer didn't have at manual transmission cars in stock).

[Raza]

I considered buying a Saab 9-3 once. It drove very well and I loved the style, but I just couldn't bring myslf to spend that much on a FWD car (and the dealer didn't have at manual transmission cars in stock).

My one friend has a second to last generation 9-3 2.0T with a stick.  He loves it so much.  Can't even bear the thought to part with it. 

[veeman]

Saab failed because they were priced as high as bmws without the cache or quality of one.  Thats what swedish labor costs get you.

[GoCougs]

Interesting development/discovery. The Q50 hybrid will have a DSG-type transmission - Direct Response Hybrid System™ with Intelligent Dual Clutch Control. We'll see if the DSG is offered in non-hybrid Q50s. The car really really needs it IMO.

[68_427]

Fastest to 60 in the test (also last place).

(The 328i and A4 were only .1" behind)

The car in the test was a T5.