L.A. cops shoot two women delivering newspapers

[GoCougs]

Unbelievable. Read the end - LAPD mistakenly fired on yet another truck that same day.

lol at all the bullet holes.

[Soup DeVille]

Unbelievable. Read the end - LAPD mistakenly fired on yet another truck that same day.

lol at all the bullet holes.

Actually, that was the Torrance police that did that (this happened in Torrance, not in LA): and it was basically later at or around that same incident. The LAPD won't say exactly who's house this was (for obvious reasons), but the newspaper women had at least seven cops open fire on them- so it was somebody who thought he was quite valuable.

[Lebowski]

Maybe maybe not.  You have to look at it in the context of what they saw at the time.  Dorner had already slain a daughter and her fiance in cold blood- killed another officer and shot 2 others after sending out his "manifesto" naming more to be executed to make things "right".  They're dealing a absolute violent nutjob who drives a blue truck that's not a huge truck.  It's 5am (which I assume is still dark in California)- the house you're guarding against a straight up crazy murdering guy who drives a blue truck and has said he'll kill anyone who gets in his way- a blue somewhat similarly sized foreign truck pulls up to the house then pulls away possibly because he saw you.... I'm not defending it but put yourself in their shoes and throw in the adrenaline and fear and see what conclusions you come up with.  I'm not sure how they actually ended up firing at it but I can certainly imagine a number of different scenarios.  Glad they at least didn't kill the women.

I see how they could mistake/suspect the vehicle, but rule #4 still applies. You don't shoot at someone you haven't IDed as a target.

[MX793]

Yeah, I know what the force continuum is: so tell me: what level of force is required for a vehicle which is driving slowly away from you? I understand you want to know all the facts before making a judgement: but I seriously doubt any mitigating facts are going to come up that are enough to call this a good decision.

For that matter, since when do police have "shoot on sight" orders?  What happened to attempting to apprehend and only firing once a clear threat (i.e. a brandished firearm, aggressive movement towards an officer) has been identified?

Granted, we don't know every detail.  Perhaps officers did attempt to stop the vehicle (although I find it odd that a law abiding pair of women delivering newspapers wouldn't stop immediately if commanded to do so by multiple officers with guns drawn), the article doesn't say.

[rohan]

the article doesn't say.

Exactly.

There's been much case law to support that a person who's murdered police officers are an automatic threat and police are allowed to jump straight to deadly force in dealing with them.  The only way that doesn't apply is if a cop killer is attempting to surrender. 

Not going to post here again because you guys are arguing to simply argue- fact is we don't know what happened and I can image a few scenarios where this might have gone down- and I never called it a good shoot or said it would get cleared just that it's understandable how this might have happened. 

[Mustangfan2003]

So it seems that if you own a pick up in LA County, no matter the color or make, you may want to find a different mode of transportation for the time being. 

[VTEC_Inside]

[Eye of the Tiger]

 

[CALL_911]

hahahaha

[Mustangfan2003]

[Secret Chimp]

So it sounds like the guy shot himself and burned down the cabin he was holed up in. If that's how it went down (like I care) either way it sounds like the guy's dead.

[Madman]

In case anyone missed it, here is someone else who is clearly NOT Dorner being shot by police.


http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/09/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210

So, here's a skinny white guy being mistaken for a fat black guy.  There's those fantastic observational skills at work again!  Plus, he had already identified himself at a police roadblock  and, just seconds later, they shot at him, anyway!  Oh, and his truck was a different make and colour, too! 




Perdue's truck....


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Some more comedy gold!


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[Secret Chimp]

Rear wheel tore half off? Jesus.

[hotrodalex]

I see how they could mistake/suspect the vehicle, but rule #4 still applies. You don't shoot at someone you haven't IDed as a target.

Much less shoot at them 32 times (at least).

[Xer0]

In case anyone missed it, here is someone else who is clearly NOT Dorner being shot by police.


http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/09/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210

So, here's a skinny white guy being mistaken for a fat black guy.  There's those fantastic observational skills at work again!  Plus, he had already identified himself at a police roadblock  and, just seconds later, they shot at him, anyway!  Oh, and his truck was a different make and colour, too! 




Perdue's truck....


.

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Some more comedy gold!


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Shit, the LAPD is shooting civilians in accords now

[MX793]

Much less shoot at them 32 times (at least).

Rule #64b states that once you start firing, you keep firing until the magazine is empty.

[SVT666]

Rule #64b states that once you start firing, you keep firing until the magazine is empty.

And then reload and keep fjring until that one is empty.

[MX793]

And then reload and keep fjring until that one is empty.

Only if the target is still moving, or appears it still may have the capacity for moving, after the first magazine has been fully spent.

[Speed_Racer]

In case anyone missed it, here is someone else who is clearly NOT Dorner being shot by police.


http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/09/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210

So, here's a skinny white guy being mistaken for a fat black guy.  There's those fantastic observational skills at work again!  Plus, he had already identified himself at a police roadblock  and, just seconds later, they shot at him, anyway!  Oh, and his truck was a different make and colour, too! 

LAPD shot at Jason Statham? Bad move...he's gonna get his suit pressed then come for them too.

[S204STi]

Rule #64b states that once you start firing, you keep firing until the magazine is empty.

Well... Sort of an unspoken rule is that if you're going to shoot someone, you continue shooting until they hit the ground. I.e., clearly incapacitated.

Of course, that assumes that deadly force was warranted, such as defense from a gunman, etc.

[Lebowski]

Much less shoot at them 32 times (at least).

Rule #64b states that once you start firing, you keep firing until the magazine is empty.

No, the number of shots fired is pretty much irrelevant.

[Madman]

One year later and a civilian panel has determined the cops who pumped 103 rounds of ammo into a truck containing two women delivering newspapers had "Violated policy".

No shit, Sherlock!

http://jezebel.com/officers-who-shot-innocent-women-in-dorner-chase-viola-1516414704/@pgeorge

[Raza]

One year later and a civilian panel has determined the cops who pumped 103 rounds of ammo into a truck containing two women delivering newspapers had "Violated policy".

No shit, Sherlock!

http://jezebel.com/officers-who-shot-innocent-women-in-dorner-chase-viola-1516414704/@pgeorge

"According to the L.A. Times' sources, this ruling almost didn't happen at all. A 'panel of high-ranking police officials that reviewed the shooting urged Beck to clear the officers of wrongdoing.'"

And cops wonder why people hate cops.  Open fire on unarmed women, mistake "the sound of the paper hitting the ground with a gunshot", and then the chief is urged by high ranking officials to clear them of wrongdoing.  I mean, here's this.  I've heard the sound of a newspaper hitting the ground.  I've heard hundreds of gunshots.  I can tell the difference.  And I haven't even been trained.  Cops always seem to believe that they can do no wrong. A cop can pin a man down and shoot him in the back, killing him, and only get two years in jail because he claimed he was going for his taser, which uses a thumb trigger, presumably has a holster in a different place on his belt, and does not feel like a gun, and only serve 7 months of that sentence.  In the eyes of the police, the police can do no wrong.

And no amount of "I'm not saying this is a good shoot, I'm not saying this is justified, but...." can make anything you say seem like anything less than justification.  Or, as teachers would say to students, an excuse. 

[Madman]

"According to the L.A. Times' sources, this ruling almost didn't happen at all. A 'panel of high-ranking police officials that reviewed the shooting urged Beck to clear the officers of wrongdoing.'"

Yep, reading that line made me recoil in horror.  No disrespect to the LEOs here but the level of cronyism and corruption in America's police departments (and their unwillingness to never hold themselves responsible for mistakes like this) is undermining the public's trust in the police.  When people no longer trust their public institutions, society falls apart.

How much you want to bet the punishment for "violating policy" (by nearly murdering two innocent women) will amount to little more then a slap on the wrist?

[bing_oh]

A cop can pin a man down and shoot him in the back, killing him, and only get two years in jail because he claimed he was going for his taser, which uses a thumb trigger, presumably has a holster in a different place on his belt, and does not feel like a gun, and only serve 7 months of that sentence.

Geeze, you're uninformed. I assume that you're talking about the BART subway platform shooting...even though you seem to have a thing for making up facts.

Tasers are set up exactly like a pistol...they don't have a "thumb trigger."



Like some pistols, they have a thumb safety, but the trigger is just like that of any pistol. They also feel like a pistol...lighter, yes, but that's not something that an officer notices during a critical incident.

Departments have varying policies and procedures about holster location for tasers. Some require cross-draw, others not. It's not unusual for a department to issue a taser holster with the same security features as the officer's primary weapon holster, as it helps to prevent fumbling because of muscle memory.

So, before you start talking out of your ass about stuff you don't know, perhaps you should get your facts straight.

[NomisR]

"According to the L.A. Times' sources, this ruling almost didn't happen at all. A 'panel of high-ranking police officials that reviewed the shooting urged Beck to clear the officers of wrongdoing.'"

And cops wonder why people hate cops.  Open fire on unarmed women, mistake "the sound of the paper hitting the ground with a gunshot", and then the chief is urged by high ranking officials to clear them of wrongdoing.  I mean, here's this.  I've heard the sound of a newspaper hitting the ground.  I've heard hundreds of gunshots.  I can tell the difference.  And I haven't even been trained.  Cops always seem to believe that they can do no wrong. A cop can pin a man down and shoot him in the back, killing him, and only get two years in jail because he claimed he was going for his taser, which uses a thumb trigger, presumably has a holster in a different place on his belt, and does not feel like a gun, and only serve 7 months of that sentence.  In the eyes of the police, the police can do no wrong.

And no amount of "I'm not saying this is a good shoot, I'm not saying this is justified, but...." can make anything you say seem like anything less than justification.  Or, as teachers would say to students, an excuse. 

With regards to BART shooting, I think it's an honest mistake.

But for the newspaper delivery though, first, how do you mistake a Blue Toyota Tacoma for a Gray Nissan Titan?  I think these guys are lucky that they didn't actually kill these 2 women. 

[Raza]

Geeze, you're uninformed. I assume that you're talking about the BART subway platform shooting...even though you seem to have a thing for making up facts.

Tasers are set up exactly like a pistol...they don't have a "thumb trigger."



Like some pistols, they have a thumb safety, but the trigger is just like that of any pistol. They also feel like a pistol...lighter, yes, but that's not something that an officer notices during a critical incident.

Departments have varying policies and procedures about holster location for tasers. Some require cross-draw, others not. It's not unusual for a department to issue a taser holster with the same security features as the officer's primary weapon holster, as it helps to prevent fumbling because of muscle memory.

So, before you start talking out of your ass about stuff you don't know, perhaps you should get your facts straight.

I concede, apparently I was incorrect about that minor detail.  Sorry.  There is still the little inconvenience of physics, that being although they might have the same holster, both the gun and the taser cannot occupy the same space at the same time.