Alfa Romeo 4C supercar

[LonghornTX]

Love this car, even the headlights. It will have a great niche in the US market since the Elise is no longer sold here (nor the the new Exige, for street use anyway). Should be pretty stonking quick too. I have always loved driving the Elises, especially the supercharged ones, but I think this car will likely deliver substantially higher performance. That chassis wasn't super stiff and the build quality on those cars generally verged on kit car like. As bad as some say Alfa reliability is, it can't be anywhere near as bad as Lotus. Overall, I think this car will be more on level with the old Exige 240/260, performance wise.

Can't wait to see this powertrain thrown into the upcoming spider.

[Madman]

This is nice but a supercar it ain't.

So true.  Sports car?  Yes.  SUPER car?  No.

As much as I welcome a mid-engine Alfa sports car, I was also hoping to see something a little more mainstream to give the Alfa Romeo brand the exposure it so desperately needs over here.  I really wish they would make a splash with a three-model range (at introduction) and build from there.  As it is, the 4C is little more than a toe in the huge ocean that is the US car market.

[LonghornTX]

So true.  Sports car?  Yes.  SUPER car?  No.

As much as I welcome a mid-engine Alfa sports car, I was also hoping to see something a little more mainstream to give the Alfa Romeo brand the exposure it so desperately needs over here.  I really wish they would make a splash with a three-model range (at introduction) and build from there.  As it is, the 4C is little more than a toe in the huge ocean that is the US car market.

The more mainstream car you are referring to will be the new Spider that will be co-developed with Mazda on the next Miata chassis. Unfortunately, it will be a few years before it launches.

[Galaxy]

Okay, so in Germany the "Launch Edition" of this - limited to 1000 world wide, loaded with all options - will cost € 61.000. Allegedly the regular cars will start with a 4 at the front.

[Raza]

If it was <$30K, I'd be writing a check right now.

I wouldn't trade the Z4 for one.

[2o6]

Seriously, why couldn't this be more accessable? Would make a dramatic entry against the pony cars and Toyota twins.

[Cookie Monster]

Seriously, why couldn't this be more accessable? Would make a dramatic entry against the pony cars and Toyota twins.

Alfa's already partnered with Mazda to make a cheap sports car based off the ND (next gen Miata) platform.

Though people speculate it will probably be more expensive than the Miata to set the two apart.

[Onslaught]

Alfa's already partnered with Mazda to make a cheap sports car based off the ND (next gen Miata) platform.

Though people speculate it will probably be more expensive than the Miata to set the two apart.

It also won't have the Miata engine so I see no need to get one. Unless you've got a Miata at home to drive when the Alfa's in the shop.

[MrH]

Seriously, why couldn't this be more accessable? Would make a dramatic entry against the pony cars and Toyota twins.

Mid engine, low volume sports cars won't be cheap.  Not enough volume to spread the fixed costs.

[2o6]

Mid engine, low volume sports cars won't be cheap.  Not enough volume to spread the fixed costs.

Coulda done like a backwards Punto or similar....

[MrH]

Coulda done like a backwards Punto or similar....

...can't tell if serious.

But yeah, not possible (or at least, not possible and have it work halfway decent), and wouldn't really save you from a lot of those fixed costs.

[Cookie Monster]

...can't tell if serious.

But yeah, not possible (or at least, not possible and have it work halfway decent), and wouldn't really save you from a lot of those fixed costs.

Couldn't they do what Toyota did with the MR-2?

[MrH]

Couldn't they do what Toyota did with the MR-2?

Pretty sure Toyota lost money on every MR-2.  There's a reason it doesn't exist any more.

The MR-2 probably sold in decent volume too compared to what this would.  Toyota has bigger purchasing power, more parts in the bin to use too.  Not saying it's impossible, but offering something like this at bargain basement prices isn't all that realistic.  The cheaper they go, the more certain they need to be about the volume they can sell to justify it.

[Cookie Monster]

Oh I see, makes sense. A $30k 4C still probably wouldn't sell that well.

[Madman]

Coulda done like a backwards Punto or similar....

...can't tell if serious.

But yeah, not possible (or at least, not possible and have it work halfway decent), and wouldn't really save you from a lot of those fixed costs.

The Fiat Group does have prior experience with this.  The Fiat X-1/9 was essentially a backwards Fiat 128 underneath it's Bertone designed body.

[LonghornTX]

Seriously, why couldn't this be more accessable? Would make a dramatic entry against the pony cars and Toyota twins.

You realize this car has a) a carbon fiber chassis and b) a more expensive brand attached to it than Toyota or the domestics, right? From what I have heard, the car will be priced similarly to a base Boxster, yet be a half a ton lighter, offer more torque, and slightly less HP.

As I described already, the more accessible Alfa will be the twin to the next Miata, with a more powerful engine.

[Colin]

Let me repeat again....... this is not intended to be an affordable high volume car.

It is a low volume specialist car. A halo model, if you like. They are only going to make 2000 a year. As Longhorn says, it has some expensive stuff in there, like the carbon fibre chassis.

I am sure that they will have little problem selling the cars that they do make.

Of course what this does mean is that it is not the car to "save" Alfa. They need a volume model for that. Next year's Giulia, if it is as good as I hope it turns out to be, could be the one that people buy in quantity, a bit like they did with the 156 when it first launched and waiting lists quickly exceeded a year. 

[MrH]

Oh wow, I didn't realize it had a carbon fiber chassis.  Yeah, that's pretty nutty.

2000 units/year is unbelievably low volume though.  That's probably the lowest volume planned for a production car I've heard of.  I guarantee they're losing money on it if that's all they're making.

[Raza]

Oh wow, I didn't realize it had a carbon fiber chassis.  Yeah, that's pretty nutty.

2000 units/year is unbelievably low volume though.  That's probably the lowest volume planned for a production car I've heard of.  I guarantee they're losing money on it if that's all they're making.

Enzo doesn't count as production?

[MrH]

Enzo doesn't count as production?

Guess I should preface that with <$100k.

[LonghornTX]

Oh wow, I didn't realize it had a carbon fiber chassis.  Yeah, that's pretty nutty.

2000 units/year is unbelievably low volume though.  That's probably the lowest volume planned for a production car I've heard of.  I guarantee they're losing money on it if that's all they're making.

That is the stated volume right now. Keeping it low like that is probably a safe bet to gauge demand; I guarantee they will expand production should there be high levels of demand and a favorable response...Note that Alfa is sending more of the premo launch editions to the US than even Europe. This model is a feeler for U.S. demand/response for the Alfa brand on a broader scale. Yes, it is still expensive, but no where near 8C territory. I think it is smart to start on the higher end, especially given the distribution network in the U.S. Sergio is very serious about turning Alfa around, and having seen Gulia 1:1 clay models in the studio, I am very excited about the future of the brand.

[Char]

Will probably be too costly and have a peaky powerband. We'll see.

[LonghornTX]

Will probably be too costly and have a peaky powerband. We'll see.

Read Colin's post, or mine for that matter. It is not meant to be affordable, it is meant to test the brand in the U.S. on a wilder scale than the 8C.

As far as the powerband, it is a turbo, so I don't imagine it being very peaky. We will see I guess.

[Yawn]

http://95octane.com/2014/04/16/2015-alfa-romeo-4c-us-release-date/

June's here... have they been spotted in any ports???

[12,000 RPM]

Read Colin's post, or mine for that matter. It is not meant to be affordable, it is meant to test the brand in the U.S. on a wilder scale than the 8C.

As far as the powerband, it is a turbo, so I don't imagine it being very peaky. We will see I guess.

Turbo engines generally have peakier powerbands- a turbo can only hit max efficiency within a small range of airflow or RPMs. Reviews say it's pretty midrange heavy with a disappointing top end. I think it's the same motor that was in the 500 Abarth, pumped to the max.

[cawimmer430]

But has Alfa made a genuinely good driving car in awhile?

This was the last one.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_75

[MX793]

Turbo engines generally have peakier powerbands- a turbo can only hit max efficiency within a small range of airflow or RPMs. Reviews say it's pretty midrange heavy with a disappointing top end. I think it's the same motor that was in the 500 Abarth, pumped to the max.

It's probably more accurate to say that turbos offer a peakier torque curve (and generally a flatter power curve).

[12,000 RPM]

It's probably more accurate to say that turbos offer a peakier torque curve (and generally a flatter power curve).

Yes this is more accurate. Turbo motors will make peak power for like 3000 RPMs, over which time torque is falling off precipitously.

[Rich]

supercar?

[FoMoJo]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140619/AUTO03/306190036/0/auto01/Alfa-Romeo-4C-one-spicy-meatball



Consider me smitten. Alfa is back in the U.S. after nearly three decades away and it's well worth the wait. The 4C is a rolling video game console. Thank the wedding of Chrysler and Fiat for this child prodigy. You'll find it at 86 Fiat-Alfa dealerships this fall.