VW XL1 production version

[Lebowski]

I never liked that quest. Previa all the way bitches.

[Submariner]

Not at you, but at sub.


Those cars were fine for their day.

Cars that were dramatically better:

- Lexus LS
- Mercedes S-class
- Mercedes E-class
- BMW 7-Series
- BMW 5-Series
- Infiniti Q45
- Jaguar XJ
- Audi A6
- Lincoln Continental

The Deville was a turd wrapped in a fancy foil wrapper.  Once you opened it up, you were in for a nasty surprise. 

[Vinsanity]

Cars that were dramatically better:

- Lexus LS
- Mercedes S-class
- Mercedes E-class
- BMW 7-Series
- BMW 5-Series
- Infiniti Q45
- Jaguar XJ
- Audi A6
- Lincoln Continental

The Deville was a turd wrapped in a fancy foil wrapper.  Once you opened it up, you were in for a nasty surprise. 

To be fair, the Olds that was pictured was like half the price of most of those cars.

[Submariner]

To be fair, the Olds that was pictured was like half the price of most of those cars.

I was speaking about the Cadillac. 

[NomisR]

The Insight came out like a year before Toyota started offering the Prius in the US (Prius was sold abroad a year or two before the Insight went on sale).  One did reasonably well, the other went on a 3 year hiatus and then returned completely redesigned to more closely resemble the Prius.

Actually, the 1st gen Prius didn't sell too well until they redesigned it to make it look like the Insight.  That along with the higher fuel prices drove the sales while the Insight failed due to it's 2 seater configuration despite it's superior mileage.  So in reality, the Insight was made bigger, but was not made to look like the Prius.  It was the Prius that copied the styling of the Insight.

[ifcar]

Actually, the 1st gen Prius didn't sell too well until they redesigned it to make it look like the Insight.  That along with the higher fuel prices drove the sales while the Insight failed due to it's 2 seater configuration despite it's superior mileage.  So in reality, the Insight was made bigger, but was not made to look like the Prius.  It was the Prius that copied the styling of the Insight.

That's just what an aerodynamic car looks like; no copying. The first-generation Prius also waaaaaaay outsold the Insight -- Honda made something like 2,500 a year globally, versus 15,000-30,000 first-generation Priuses, of which 20,000 or so were in the U.S. Sales really took off once its versatility and fuel economy increased in the second generation, but it was always much more of a mainstream car.   

[GoCougs]

Does it matter?  America probably won't get it anyway.  It's far to interesting and revolutionary for the ignorant masses over here.  Just be happy with our cheapend Jettas with hard plastic interiors and rear beam axles try not to think too much.  Why have a fun Scirocco or economical Polo when you can be put to sleep by the rolling mattress that is the US-Passat?

So you'd buy one then?

[GoCougs]

It's too... weird. And it's too contrived in its "look at me, I'm an electric car!" design language.

The problem with most of these electric cars is that the carmakers refuse to make them look like normal cars. They all have to look like weird spaceships or NASA Mars rovers or something. Who wants to drive around in that crap? It looks like the old Honda Insight, which looked positively horrible.

The front, I will say, looks pretty good. But the rear is a horror show, and what's with the rear wheels being covered up?

That's the dealio - a lot of the enjoyment and value in buying and driving electrics and hybrids is externalized self validation.

[NomisR]

That's just what an aerodynamic car looks like; no copying. The first-generation Prius also waaaaaaay outsold the Insight -- Honda made something like 2,500 a year globally, versus 15,000-30,000 first-generation Priuses, of which 20,000 or so were in the U.S. Sales really took off once its versatility and fuel economy increased in the second generation, but it was always much more of a mainstream car.   

Well, a compact 4 seater out selling a 2 seater doesn't really mean much. 

But as for copying.. just look at the rear end and name another car with a rear end like that before Toyota made it?  Oh yeah.. Insight, CRX.....

[2o6]

Well, a compact 4 seater out selling a 2 seater doesn't really mean much. 

But as for copying.. just look at the rear end and name another car with a rear end like that before Toyota made it?  Oh yeah.. Insight, CRX.....

You are dead wrong. There is only so much one can do with a shape and still keep it aerodynamic and seating for five people.

[NomisR]

You are dead wrong. There is only so much one can do with a shape and still keep it aerodynamic and seating for five people.

By making it look like a CRX with the see through panel in the back? 

Plus, my response was to the original claim that the Insight was made to resemble the Prius which was false since it was the Prius which was made to resemble the Insight which resembled the CRX.  Yet everyone is saying Insight copied the Prius which is definitely incorrect. 

[ifcar]

"Made to resemble" makes it sound like it was an intentional decision to emulate a competitor rather than one shaped by aerodynamics. It wasn't like Toyota was saying, "Hey, everyone likes the Insight! We should make our car look like that!"

Whereas the second-generation Insight, while similarly shaped by aerodynamics, was pretty clearly trying to adopt a competing car's successful formula.

[NomisR]

"Made to resemble" makes it sound like it was an intentional decision to emulate a competitor rather than one shaped by aerodynamics. It wasn't like Toyota was saying, "Hey, everyone likes the Insight! We should make our car look like that!"

Whereas the second-generation Insight, while similarly shaped by aerodynamics, was pretty clearly trying to adopt a competing car's successful formula.

Uh... but I don't see what the Insight did that was so different from the first one other than adding a back seat.  So "made to resemble" the Prius is still false since 1st gen Insight came before 2nd gen Prius and the 2nd gen Insight was just an evolution of the 1st gen.  So I don't see what's wrong with what I said. 

How can you claim the Insight copied the Prius when the first one came out with that design language before the Prius?

So by your logic, the Prius didn't copy the Insight even though they look the same because the 1st gen Insight didn't sell well.  Yet, the 2nd generation copied the Prius even though it's an evolution of the 1st gen but since the 2nd gen Prius sells better than the 1st gen Insight, the 2nd gen Insight copied the Prius?  That makes ALOT OF SENSE!  SportySPIN!

[MX793]

Uh... but I don't see what the Insight did that was so different from the first one other than adding a back seat.  So "made to resemble" the Prius is still false since 1st gen Insight came before 2nd gen Prius and the 2nd gen Insight was just an evolution of the 1st gen.  So I don't see what's wrong with what I said. 

How can you claim the Insight copied the Prius when the first one came out with that design language before the Prius?

So by your logic, the Prius didn't copy the Insight even though they look the same because the 1st gen Insight didn't sell well.  Yet, the 2nd generation copied the Prius even though it's an evolution of the 1st gen but since the 2nd gen Prius sells better than the 1st gen Insight, the 2nd gen Insight copied the Prius?  That makes ALOT OF SENSE!  SportySPIN!

You misread the meaning of "resemble".  I wasn't talking purely aesthetics.  The mkI Insight was a 2-seat, 2-door fastback design.  The Prius was a compact, 4-door, 5-seat sedan/hatchback.  The Insight was discontinued for 3 years after the first generation and when it returns in its 2nd generation, it is a 4-door, 5 seat, compact hatchback.  It did not stick to its original formula, it changed into something more akin to the much more successful Prius.

And secondly, no generation of Prius aesthetically resembles the first generation Insight.  The closest resemblance is that the MkII Prius adopted a kamm-back shape, but with a very different side profile.  Nobody would ever confuse a MkI Insight with a MkII Prius.  The MkII Insight, on the other hand, is close enough in profile to the MkII Prius that I could see the uninitiated confusing the two at a glance.  I don't believe Honda was necessarily trying to ape the MkII Prius, though.  I think that was more driven by the fact that that is the shape you get when you try to optimize both interior space and aerodynamic efficiency.

[Submariner]

That's the dealio - a lot of the enjoyment and value in buying and driving electrics and hybrids is externalized self validation.

"People like to let others know about all the charity they're doing anonymously" - Jay Leno

Or something to that effect...

[NomisR]

You misread the meaning of "resemble".  I wasn't talking purely aesthetics.  The mkI Insight was a 2-seat, 2-door fastback design.  The Prius was a compact, 4-door, 5-seat sedan/hatchback.  The Insight was discontinued for 3 years after the first generation and when it returns in its 2nd generation, it is a 4-door, 5 seat, compact hatchback.  It did not stick to its original formula, it changed into something more akin to the much more successful Prius.

And secondly, no generation of Prius aesthetically resembles the first generation Insight.  The closest resemblance is that the MkII Prius adopted a kamm-back shape, but with a very different side profile.  Nobody would ever confuse a MkI Insight with a MkII Prius.  The MkII Insight, on the other hand, is close enough in profile to the MkII Prius that I could see the uninitiated confusing the two at a glance.  I don't believe Honda was necessarily trying to ape the MkII Prius, though.  I think that was more driven by the fact that that is the shape you get when you try to optimize both interior space and aerodynamic efficiency.

Well, it's hard to mistake a 2 door vehicle for a 4 door vehicle, but to say the 2nd generation Insight copied the Prius is still incorrect.  What Honda found out was that people prefer a fuel sipping utility vehicle vs a commuter vehicle even though a 2 door with better mileage would make a lot better sense for most people.  It's about the what ifs especially for Americans, that's why people would buy trucks even though they would never need to move anything big or tow anything.. if they use it once in the 4 years they own the vehicle, it's justified. 

[Char]

With features like cupholders™ Bench seating™ Column shiftier™ you could Illuminate your life with a Quest.

[pendyman]

I find it reminiscent of an updated EV1, GM's electric car from the 1990s.