TDI fades into regulatory oblivion; Enter Miata

[Tave]

Looks like they overcorrected on the brakes. Wifey's brakes are soggy to the point that they might need a bleed. They work fine once you get through that first 2-3" of travel.

Can't remember what VW I drove with a stickshift, but yea they have a pretty good shift action. It's those details that separate VWs from stuff like Corollas

No I think the feel is probably similar. Mine can be a little spongy up-top, not 2" worth but there's definitely a small amount of play on initial application. Still grabby right at the top but it gets better every time I brake.

Brand new, is it?

14 miles on the clock before I test drove it, 18 when I took delivery, and just shy of 300 as of this afternoon.

[CALL_911]

Maybe you should trade "German" for Volkswagen. VW cars generally have shit in the same place, for better or worse

Yeah, and there are still some differences between, say, my Golf and my mom's A4. I have no idea what Raza's on about with his ergonomic point

[Raza]

It's only fairly recently they've began to diverge, and that goes for the entire industry.


Maybe you should trade "German" for Volkswagen. VW cars generally have shit in the same place, for better or worse


BMW and Mercedes share little in common with VW ergonomically.

The--ugh--infortainment systems are all different now, but for the most part, German cars are all just the same.  Remember, I drive BMW, Audi, and Mercedes on a regular basis, and I used to also often drive a Lexus often.  Now it's not as if the turn signals are in the back seat in all Japanese cars, but the placement usually feels a little off in Japanese cars.  A little further away from the rim of the steering wheel than it should be, a little further down, et al. 

[Raza]

Yea... I dont know about these new cars with touchscreen everything, but I have had Toyota, Nissan and Honda... takes about a minute to find all the controls, if that

Meanwhile, there were functions in wifeys car that took me weeks or months to figure out, thanks to VW's extensive use of heiroglyphics. For example her A/C was blowing weak... apparently, at least from what the sign says, she has ventilated seats and there is a dial to switch between the vents and the seats. The wiper stalk is still a mystery to me- especially for the rear wiper. There's no indication of what is on or off, just pictograms. That's one thing I find to be pretty stupid... I get minimalist design but come on.

But as far as the interior quality, again, wifey's Rabbit is much higher quality than my Z both in design and durability. So far, pretty much just as reliable too.

Don't know about the rear wiper, but are you really having trouble with the symbols?  They do that so they can be understood by people in all language markets.  Imagine if you had to find the button that said "Heckwischersteuerung" or "Fernlicht" to operate stuff. 

[2o6]

The--ugh--infortainment systems are all different now, but for the most part, German cars are all just the same.  Remember, I drive BMW, Audi, and Mercedes on a regular basis, and I used to also often drive a Lexus often.  Now it's not as if the turn signals are in the back seat in all Japanese cars, but the placement usually feels a little off in Japanese cars.  A little further away from the rim of the steering wheel than it should be, a little further down, et al.

Your point?


You drive a model or two of these makes, but I'm in and out of cars all day, and I'm confident I've driven more cars than you.

BMW has been altering their ergonomics for years, even across the current model line things aren't entirely consistent - X1 switches shifters among model grades; iDrive isn't always the same in every model, cruise control flips from a stalk to buttons on the wheel (and they aren't consistently on the same side).


Most Asian cars have stalks on the left for blinkers and headlights (including Hyundai) as well as a cruise stalk (although many are migrating to buttons lately)

[Raza]

Your point?


You drive a model or two of these makes, but I'm in and out of cars all day, and I'm confident I've driven more cars than you.

I'm sorry, but I've been doing this a lot longer than you have. I've driven dozens and dozens of cars, many German, from model years from the early 80s to today. Be confident in your opinions, but don't presume to know that you know everything I've done.

[2o6]

I'm sorry, but I've been doing this a lot longer than you have. I've driven dozens and dozens of cars, many German, from model years from the early 80s to today. Be confident in your opinions, but don't presume to know that you know everything I've done.

I'm in and out of all sorts of makes and models every day, from ALL makes, models, countries. I've driven and been inside probably 75% of pretty much all vehicles on the market....




What you're saying doesn't make sense....

[2o6]

Anyways, I don't think it's that big of a deal unless something is glaringly bad; usually within 30 seconds I can get comfortable with whatever I'm driving. I've driven so many cars that things sort of run together now

[Raza]

Anyways, I don't think it's that big of a deal unless something is glaringly bad; usually within 30 seconds I can get comfortable with whatever I'm driving. I've driven so many cars that things sort of run together now

The Mazda3 I had a couple years back was glaringly bad, for example.

[2o6]

The Mazda3 I had a couple years back was glaringly bad, for example.

It is. That tune/file knob that is masquerading as a volume knob is frustrating. And the faux iDrive in the new one isn't much better

[ifcar]

It is. That tune/file knob that is masquerading as a volume knob is frustrating. And the faux iDrive in the new one isn't much better

I agree that the previous generation ergonomics were a mess -- the jumbo knob and the cruise controls that were spread out across the entire steering wheel on most models.

On the new one, though, the audio controls are unconventional but they actually work pretty decently when you get used to them. Not quite great, but better. And of course you can use the touchscreen instead of the buttons and knob for most things, too.

[12,000 RPM]

Don't know about the rear wiper, but are you really having trouble with the symbols?  They do that so they can be understood by people in all language markets.  Imagine if you had to find the button that said "Heckwischersteuerung" or "Fernlicht" to operate stuff.

It's not do much the symbols, as much as is the symbols being vague and controls bucking convention. For example the wiper stalk operates in the opposite direction of literally every other car I've driven, and there is no indication of how to operate the washers or rear wiper. some extra symbols explaining how to operate the stalk would help.

Plus I'm pretty suremost car companies use English on all their controls. And the climate controls are in Fahrenheit. It's just bad design.

[Raza]

It's not do much the symbols, as much as is the symbols being vague and controls bucking convention. For example the wiper stalk operates in the opposite direction of literally every other car I've driven, and there is no indication of how to operate the washers or rear wiper. some extra symbols explaining how to operate the stalk would help.

Plus I'm pretty suremost car companies use English on all their controls. And the climate controls are in Fahrenheit. It's just bad design.

Might be a familiarity thing. I've never had a problem. I'd imagine all the buttons (minus the rear wiper) were the same between the Rabbit and my Jetta.

[12,000 RPM]

Might be a familiarity thing. I've never had a problem. I'd imagine all the buttons (minus the rear wiper) were the same between the Rabbit and my Jetta.

It's not a problem, just an annoyingly steeper than necessary learning curve. One shouldn't need to read an owner's manual  to figure out the functions of a basic car.

[MexicoCityM3]

It's not a problem, just an annoyingly steeper than necessary learning curve. One shouldn't need to read an owner's manual  to figure out the functions of a basic car.

What is a "basic car" though these days? Most cars today have a load of functions.

[12,000 RPM]

What is a "basic car" though these days? Most cars today have a load of functions.

Something under 25K I would say. I mean I guess for stuff like navigation and radar cruise control, cool. But those are new technologies. A wiper stalk should be intuitive for someone who has been driving for a decade

[MexicoCityM3]

Something under 25K I would say. I mean I guess for stuff like navigation and radar cruise control, cool. But those are new technologies. A wiper stalk should be intuitive for someone who has been driving for a decade

I don't know. For example, BMW has been criticized a lot for some of the ergonomic changes they've done in the past few years. But once you get used to them, getting into other cars feels simply old.

For example, newer BMWs have the turn signal stalk where a little push will get you either a single blink or 3 blinks (configurable in iDrive) and a full push will get you regular turn signal behaviour. Or push button start for that matter (with keyless entry). This changes I find to be a better way of doing things and I miss them a bit when I get in the E46 which is starting to feel "classic".

[MrH]

I don't know. For example, BMW has been criticized a lot for some of the ergonomic changes they've done in the past few years. But once you get used to them, getting into other cars feels simply old.

For example, newer BMWs have the turn signal stalk where a little push will get you either a single blink or 3 blinks (configurable in iDrive) and a full push will get you regular turn signal behaviour. Or push button start for that matter (with keyless entry). This changes I find to be a better way of doing things and I miss them a bit when I get in the E46 which is starting to feel "classic".

I do love BMW turn signals. It makes a lot of sense to me.

[2o6]

How is that a BMW thing? Those same signal stalks are used on the Saturn (Opel) Astra.



I hate them.

[Tave]

The Jetta has that same turn signal function.

Most of the controls are pretty intuitive, I don't have any trouble with the symbols. The dealer showed me cruise control before I even looked at it but, seriously? Hard to mistake "on" and "set."

The only real oddball is the mileage/weather/range/etc... toggle on the wiper stalk.

However, that's more industrial design than it is ergos. Ergos are great on the Jetta, especially for a taller guy: plenty of legroom, great seating position (low with ample visibility over the dash and the controls beneath you), open space to access the cabin but good bolstering, quality articulation and touch to most of the interior bits, good peripheral and ancillary viewpoints.

It's a very conservative layout but executed well.

Ergo mixed bag:
- some of the switchgear isn't quite as nice as the rest
- the trunk is large but deeply-set
- ingress/egress takes some getting used to as a trade-off to the seating position.

That last one is only an issue because I'm pretty tall, but I'll happily trade that for the legroom in this car. Holy cow, the only other ride that was truly comfortable for me was a 996 Carrera. I can't even work the pedals with the seats all the way back. That's unheard of, 99% of the time it's a question of how much, and not if, I will be cramped.

[Tave]

I filled up today, 36.5 mpg on the first tank, almost an exact 50/50 split b/w city and highway.

[CALL_911]

That's disappointing, I tend to pull around 30 mixed 50/50

[68_427]

That's spot on for the TDI

[mzziaz]

Diesels tend to increase the mileage and liven up a bit after they are finished breaking in.

This was a new car, right?

[AutobahnSHO]

Diesels tend to increase the mileage and liven up a bit after they are finished breaking in.

yes

[FoMoJo]

Diesels tend to increase the mileage and liven up a bit after they are finished breaking in.

This was a new car, right?

Tends to be true for most engines...then after a while, they wear out and start to die.

[Char]

That's disappointing, I tend to pull around 30 mixed 50/50

I can do 32 or so in  my car with more power than a TDI and the fuel cost less. Just saying.

[veeman]

I can do 32 or so in  my car with more power than a TDI and the fuel cost less. Just saying.

You can do 32 or so in a minivan?

[Payman]

Check out these mileages (kilometerages?) VW TDi's are indestructible.

http://www.autotrader.ca/cars/volkswagen/jetta/on/carrying%20place/?prx=500&prv=Ontario&loc=k0k1l0&fuel=Diesel&sts=Used&pRng=2000%2c4000&hprc=True

[CJ]

Check out these mileages (kilometerages?) VW TDi's are indestructible.

http://www.autotrader.ca/cars/volkswagen/jetta/on/carrying%20place/?prx=500&prv=Ontario&loc=k0k1l0&fuel=Diesel&sts=Used&pRng=2000%2c4000&hprc=True

Unreliable garbage.