TDI fades into regulatory oblivion; Enter Miata

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think I might buy a Fiat.

God help me.

God help us all.

Oh, dear.

[MrH]

Miata for sure. The fiata has a lump of an engine. Runs a turbo with some ungodly amount of boost, no DI, no variable valve lift, all to be slower than the NA miata. Not worth the headache

[ifcar]

Why on Google Earfh would you buy a Fiat.... resale is going to be abysmal once they cease US operations (you know it's coming)

Plus can you fit in the Fiata?

Does it have to be new? There are so many awesome used cars in that price range.

On the plus side, an overstocked dealer might be eager to discount.

[Payman]

The biggest negative against the 124 is that the Miata exists, so that's it's benchmark. On its own, it's still a great little car.

[Payman]

On the plus side, an overstocked dealer might be eager to discount.

They're still charging $5-8k over MSRP up here, and I still haven't seen one on the road.

[CALL_911]

S2000

[CALL_911]

Miata

[Tave]

Why on Google Earfh would you buy a Fiat.... resale is going to be abysmal once they cease US operations (you know it's coming)

Plus can you fit in the Fiata?

Does it have to be new? There are so many awesome used cars in that price range.

New is preferred.

After this disaster with VW I'm past the point of caring about dealer support. It's made on a Mazda line I'm sure they can fix it anyway.

No idea if I can put myself in it, that's the only deal breaker. It looks like an easier fit that the Miata but I understand interior dimensions are unchanged.

[12,000 RPM]

If you absolutely must.... get a used Abarth

I would definitely get the Miata though. Everything that's different about it is better

I was gonna suggest the GTI but It's still the best in class though and I'm certain VW dealers will play hardball

[MrH]

It's using 22 psi of boost to be slower than the Miata.  That engine is a turd.

[Tave]

I've watched some reviews of taller guys who say the Fiat's seats are slightly flatter and give you a little extra headroom and legroom over the Mazda.

[2o6]

It's using 22 psi of boost to be slower than the Miata.  That engine is a turd.

Wait what???? That thing runs 22psi?????


My Sonic runs about 12PSI, and gets 138HP a more forgiving torque curve.

[Tave]

It's using 22 psi of boost to be slower than the Miata.  That engine is a turd.

Meh--slower off the line but just as fast at speed and around tight roads. Big whoop. No one buys either for the acceleration. They're both faster than my TDI which is plenty fast for me.

I'm not going to be able to daily drive a Miata, both because it's a Miata, but also because this new one is a little frenetic and aggressive on the back end. The Fiat seems like something I could actually live with and drive around for work.

[MrH]

Wait what???? That thing runs 22psi?????


My Sonic runs about 12PSI, and gets 138HP a more forgiving torque curve.

Lol yeah. No direct injection, multi air is a turd of a setup. People talk about this being a flash away from huge power. I wouldn't trust an FCA engine flashed to 30 psi. Who knows if that little turbo can even flow that much at higher revs.

[Tave]

Lol I'm not going to flash the engine.

Emailed the local dealer. I might see what they can do on getting an base Abarth--right now they're selling a Lusso in manual for under 28K but if I could get the Abarth for right about there, that's a really tempting.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Wait what???? That thing runs 22psi?????


My Sonic runs about 12PSI, and gets 138HP a more forgiving torque curve.

109 HP on 0 PSI. Guess who has the least shitty engine ... 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Irregardless of shittyness ...
https://youtu.be/6iVSlKtezx8

[MX793]

Wait what???? That thing runs 22psi?????


My Sonic runs about 12PSI, and gets 138HP a more forgiving torque curve.

Yes.  The 500 Abarth runs only slightly less than that.

[Tave]

I have a feeling the complaints about the engine have been overstated given the fact that the same plant has received mostly great reviews in its other applications. Not to mention most of the reviewers have been very favorable overall.

People expected it to sound like the Abarth and I get that it would be great to hear some more burble, but they also have an option for that.

[MX793]

I have a feeling the complaints about the engine have been overstated given the fact that the same plant has received mostly great reviews in its other applications. Not to mention most of the reviewers have been very favorable overall.

People expected it to sound like the Abarth and I get that it would be great to hear some more burble, but they also have an option for that.

Outside of the 500 Abarth, what other applications is that engine praised in?

[Payman]

Good comparo by MT's Jason Cammisa...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wFuuAfYdnw

[Tave]

Outside of the 500 Abarth, what other applications is that engine praised in?

Mito

Didn't it and the Twinair derivative win a couple awards recently?

[MX793]

Mito

Didn't it and the Twinair derivative win a couple awards recently?

Like 5-6 years ago, they won "Best New Engine" awards.  Granted, they may have been nearly the only "new engines" for their respective years.

[Tave]

Like 5-6 years ago, they won "Best New Engine" awards.  Granted, they may have been nearly the only "new engines" for their respective years.

True, I guess people have been gushing so much over the 500 Abarth it's just hard to imagine it being THAT bad in a lightweight RWD roadster just because they muted the exhaust note. Undoubtably Mazda's engine feels more integrated, but I keep coming back to the fact that most reviews seem to love the thing even when they complain about the turbo lag. And some reviews don't say anything about the lag and praise the Fiat for feeling more powerful.

[Payman]

True, I guess people have been gushing so much over the 500 Abarth it's just hard to imagine it being THAT bad in a lightweight RWD roadster just because they muted the exhaust note. Undoubtably Mazda's engine feels more integrated, but I keep coming back to the fact that most reviews seem to love the thing even when they complain about the turbo lag. And some reviews don't say anything about the lag and praise the Fiat for feeling more powerful.

All the reviews say the same thing... lag off the line, lots of mid-range punch, power falls off above 5500 rpm. So basically, the power is there 95% of the time. Sure, it's fun to redline the Miata, but you really don't do that often. The consensus is also that the 124 has the better suspension tune, and the interior is more upscale. In the video I posted above, the 124 and Miata had identical autocross times... the Miata was faster on the straight, the 124 tighter in the corners.

[MrH]

Keep in mind, that wasn't a Club Miata. Different damping, spring rates, and an LSD in the club. It'll likely be quicker than both.

[12,000 RPM]

This is happening whether we like it or not. Mite as well enjoy the ride

[Payman]

Keep in mind, that wasn't a Club Miata. Different damping, spring rates, and an LSD in the club. It'll likely be quicker than both.

... and it wasn't an Abarth. 

[Payman]

This is happening whether we like it or not. Mite as well enjoy the ride

I'd love a Miata, but I think I still want a 124 Spider even more.

[Rupert]

The MT guy's comments about the Miata being a pain to drive on back roads really bums me out. That was the whole heart and soul of the older cars, you know?