2014 Toyota Highlander

[AutobahnSHO]

Because minivans are so vastly more usable .

I got into this discussion the other day- and have been thinking about it a LOT.

Minivans USED To have the advantage in MPG, seems the CX-9 and others are almost on par with the Sienna and Odyssey.
They also had more interior space- but as the manufacturers saw the cash cow that was SUV and the dropoff in minivan purchases, the "crossovers" are getting the same space tricks.

SUVs seem to have higher towing capacity and slightly higher clearance, Minivans still some extra interior space and better seating..

[ifcar]

The biggest minivan advantage is behind the third row. You can carry a lot of stuff in a minivan, plus seven passengers. In most of the crossovers, you're pretty much choosing between people and stuff unless you're carrying cargo outside the car.

[CALL_911]

Another advantage is now HondaVac. Don't forget about HondaVac.

[Catman]

Another advantage is now HondaVac. Don't forget about HondaVac.

This will certainly factor in toy next vehicle purchase.

[AutobahnSHO]

The biggest minivan advantage is behind the third row. You can carry a lot of stuff in a minivan, plus seven passengers. In most of the crossovers, you're pretty much choosing between people and stuff unless you're carrying cargo outside the car.

True- our minivan you could carry a weeks worth of groceries PLUS EIGHT people!!
The pilot my parents have though- if you want any sort of legroom in the 2nd/3rd rows you hvae no cargo space...

[TurboDan]

The biggest minivan advantage is behind the third row. You can carry a lot of stuff in a minivan, plus seven passengers. In most of the crossovers, you're pretty much choosing between people and stuff unless you're carrying cargo outside the car.

Minivans really don't have a lot of cargo space unless you take the third row bench out. But once that seat (or the middle bench) is gone, you have a shit ton of space on your hands. Minivans are very functional, but I wonder about the long term business model of selling these things – how many younger mothers actually want to drive around in one? And if the minivan is going to be the family's "big" vehicle, there might be some concerns about towing capacity, since the larger vehicle will be the one that will tow boats, campers or other "toys" people have.

There's also stats that show fewer people are having children and those who do are having less children, meaning there may not be as much demand for vehicles that can carry 7 passengers.

[Atomic]

I think all we have to do is rename minivans, and they will be considered more "cool". They're some of the most useful vehicles around. Make them all wheel drive and give them a new term.

If any company can do it, it'll be Chrysler, I think. They have made it clear that it will be offered with AWD. Doubtful the Caravan (Dodge Grand Caravan) name will disappear and it's still speculative as to how different the Chrysler Town & Country will be. Yes. We know one will be more of a crossover vs. Minivan but "both models" each are expected to carve out unique niches to haul families and their gear.

[ifcar]

Minivans really don't have a lot of cargo space unless you take the third row bench out.

More than twice what most three-row crossovers have.

[AutobahnSHO]

Minivans really don't have a lot of cargo space unless you take the third row bench out.

You're crazy. 
I think ALL now have 3rd rows that fold into the floor. When the seat is UP, you have that space the seat would have occupied, plus a ton above it. I could fit like 20kids standing up behind the Sienna's 3rd row...

BUT since ya'll like stats
"The 2013 Toyota Sienna has 39.1 cubic feet of cargo space behind the third row "
"87.1 cubic feet behind the second row. "

"With the third row stowed, the Explorer can hold 43.8 cubic feet of cargo, and with all three rows in use, it can hold 21 cubic feet of cargo. That's more than many of its competitors."

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Toyota_Sienna/Interior/
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Ford_Explorer/Interior/
(just using an easy source for comparison sake)

[AutobahnSHO]

Basically the Sienna has practically as much space behind the 3rd row as the Explorer does behind the 2nd row...

[280Z Turbo]

Basically the Sienna has practically as much space behind the 3rd row as the Explorer does behind the 2nd row...

If you stack your cargo to the roof, I suppose.

[Raza]

They take a little getting used to if you're coming from cars that have a button to unlock the shifter.  I actually kind of prefer the zig-zag gate.  It's easier for me to tell by feel where the shifter is.

Yeah, I prefer it too.  Going from my Mercedes with the zig-zag gate to my Passat was a big adjustment.

[veeman]

i've sat in my brother's newish uplevel awd sienna a fair amount and compared it with my buick enclave.  There's no comparison in 2nd row room, 3rd row room, and cargo space.  It is much more in a minivan.  In a minivan the floor is low and it's boxy shape makes cabin room in the second and third row feel much more.  The third row in an suv can be downright suffocating on a long trip. 

the issue is that the raised height and significantly beefier tires of an SUV make it more appealing to look at.  subconsciously it's more imposing on the road.  women like suvs better than minivans just like they like guys with broad shoulders.

what would be ideal is to design a minivan that looks like the A-team van but with the road manners of a car.

[veeman]

a couple of years ago, i test drove back to back an odyssey and a pilot.  In 2009.  Everything about the pilot aesthetically was so much better.  The tires are huge, you're high off the ground, and you have this big square engine bay sticking out in front of you like a clenched fist.  Comparatively, the odyssey looked feeble and felt feeble.  Logic goes out the window.  But if we were logical, we'd all be driving used corollas.

[Catman]

i've sat in my brother's newish uplevel awd sienna a fair amount and compared it with my buick enclave.  There's no comparison in 2nd row room, 3rd row room, and cargo space.  It is much more in a minivan.  In a minivan the floor is low and it's boxy shape makes cabin room in the second and third row feel much more.  The third row in an suv can be downright suffocating on a long trip. 

the issue is that the raised height and significantly beefier tires of an SUV make it more appealing to look at.  subconsciously it's more imposing on the road.  women like suvs better than minivans just like they like guys with broad shoulders.

what would be ideal is to design a minivan that looks like the A-team van but with the road manners of a car.

[AutobahnSHO]

If you stack your cargo to the roof, I suppose.

Umm, look at the numbers. If you just stack up to the window line in both the SUV and minivan, you still have close to twice as much space in the minivan.

What kills me is that the engineering that goes into cramming everything into the flat-floor minivan must be pretty intense- and I understand that SUVs were designed more with offroading in mind, so putting delicate parts right in the middle under the vehicle would be a no-no on the SUV. (seriously look under a minivan- scary vulnerable!)

But to the majority of US drivers who never go offroad (as evidenced by low-profile tires and other silliness) the minivan is the "logical" yet "uncool" choice...

[veeman]

ask yourself this -your buddy and you are going on a week long hiking, fishing, camping trip.  Just the two of you.  You'll be driving long distances, all on paved roads, and you have a lot of gear.  You'll be the passenger the whole time because its your buddy's car.  You'll split the gas.  Your buddy has three cars allof the same year.  A corolla, a 4runner,  and a sienna.  Which car do you hope yourbuddy shows up at your house with?  If you say corolla because youll pay less gas money or sienna because you'll be more comfortable, you're lying to yourself. 

[ifcar]

ask yourself this -your buddy and you are going on a week long hiking, fishing, camping trip.  Just the two of you.  You'll be driving long distances, all on paved roads, and you have a lot of gear.  You'll be the passenger the whole time because its your buddy's car.  You'll split the gas.  Your buddy has three cars allof the same year.  A corolla, a 4runner,  and a sienna.  Which car do you hope yourbuddy shows up at your house with?  If you say corolla because youll pay less gas money or sienna because you'll be more comfortable, you're lying to yourself. 

Would it be so much better if it were a Highlander?

[veeman]

I'd rather he show up in a highlander rather than the sienna.  I'm not a big fan of it but better than a minivan.

[hotrodalex]

I drove/rode in a new Sienna for a week and actually liked it a lot. It was great to drive on the freeway for hours, was almost quick enough to be considered fast, and had lots of cargo space behind the 3rd row. Never felt embarrassed while driving it, either. It's not a cool car like an SUV can potentially be, but as a roadtrip vehicle it's tough to beat.

[Cookie Monster]

ask yourself this -your buddy and you are going on a week long hiking, fishing, camping trip.  Just the two of you.  You'll be driving long distances, all on paved roads, and you have a lot of gear.  You'll be the passenger the whole time because its your buddy's car.  You'll split the gas.  Your buddy has three cars allof the same year.  A corolla, a 4runner,  and a sienna.  Which car do you hope yourbuddy shows up at your house with?  If you say corolla because youll pay less gas money or sienna because you'll be more comfortable, you're lying to yourself. 

No, I would say Corolla, and I'm not lying to myself.

[veeman]

For me, as i would imagine most middle aged adults with small kids, a trip like that is special.  And part of what makes a road trip special, albeit a small part, is the vehicle.  In the movie Hangover, the guys went to Vegas in a classic convertible merc.  Not a minivan.  Some suvs, not all mind u, are way cooler looking than any minivan can hope to be.   If you can tolerate the compromise in cabin space, its worth it for many folk.  Drive a cooler car, feel cooler about yourself.  Its just like clothing. 

If my buddy showed up in his corolla and i knew his 4runner was sitting in his garage collecting dust, i'd bitch slap him for being a cheap ass,  excoriate him that i took a week off of work and had to be extra nice to my wife for the preceding month because she has to take care of the kids alone for a week, and grill him as to why he got the suv in the first place?  Realize this is a good buddy so you're supposed to talk shit to each other.

[J86]

^

[ifcar]

For me, as i would imagine most middle aged adults with small kids, a trip like that is special.  And part of what makes a road trip special, albeit a small part, is the vehicle.  In the movie Hangover, the guys went to Vegas in a classic convertible merc.  Not a minivan.  Some suvs, not all mind u, are way cooler looking than any minivan can hope to be.   If you can tolerate the compromise in cabin space, its worth it for many folk.  Drive a cooler car, feel cooler about yourself.  Its just like clothing. 

If my buddy showed up in his corolla and i knew his 4runner was sitting in his garage collecting dust, i'd bitch slap him for being a cheap ass,  excoriate him that i took a week off of work and had to be extra nice to my wife for the preceding month because she has to take care of the kids alone for a week, and grill him as to why he got the suv in the first place?  Realize this is a good buddy so you're supposed to talk shit to each other.

Bah, you're back to it being a 4Runner instead of a Highlander.

[Cookie Monster]

For me, as i would imagine most middle aged adults with small kids, a trip like that is special.  And part of what makes a road trip special, albeit a small part, is the vehicle.  In the movie Hangover, the guys went to Vegas in a classic convertible merc.  Not a minivan.  Some suvs, not all mind u, are way cooler looking than any minivan can hope to be.   If you can tolerate the compromise in cabin space, its worth it for many folk.  Drive a cooler car, feel cooler about yourself.  Its just like clothing. 

If my buddy showed up in his corolla and i knew his 4runner was sitting in his garage collecting dust, i'd bitch slap him for being a cheap ass,  excoriate him that i took a week off of work and had to be extra nice to my wife for the preceding month because she has to take care of the kids alone for a week, and grill him as to why he got the suv in the first place?  Realize this is a good buddy so you're supposed to talk shit to each other.

A 4Runner is still boring. Two of my friends and I went for a 3 day ski trip in one friend's old Civic. I didn't care that it wasn't cool. I was going to ski.

I also went on a week long backpacking/camping trip in the desert. We took a friend's Sienna. Yet again no fucks were given as to what vehicle we used. We didn't even see the car for most of the time we were there since we were camping and backpacking and exploring. Hell I drove the Sienna most of the way there and back and didn't care that it was "just" a minivan.

If it was a roadtrip for the sake of taking a roadtrip (hitting up fun roads to drive, cruising around all day, etc) then yes, I can see why you'd want a cool car. However, if it's just a means to an end, like in your example, I honestly don't care at all.

BTW, I would take a minivan over a 3 row FWD "SUV". Then again, I'm not hugely concerned with what people think of what I drive.

[Soup DeVille]

For me, as i would imagine most middle aged adults with small kids, a trip like that is special.  And part of what makes a road trip special, albeit a small part, is the vehicle.  In the movie Hangover, the guys went to Vegas in a classic convertible merc.  Not a minivan.  Some suvs, not all mind u, are way cooler looking than any minivan can hope to be.   If you can tolerate the compromise in cabin space, its worth it for many folk.  Drive a cooler car, feel cooler about yourself.  Its just like clothing. 

If my buddy showed up in his corolla and i knew his 4runner was sitting in his garage collecting dust, i'd bitch slap him for being a cheap ass,  excoriate him that i took a week off of work and had to be extra nice to my wife for the preceding month because she has to take care of the kids alone for a week, and grill him as to why he got the suv in the first place?  Realize this is a good buddy so you're supposed to talk shit to each other.

I just don't see myself getting all excited over a 4Runner (or a Highlander for that matter).

[veeman]

the reason ifcar i keep saying 4runner is that i'm not a huge fan of the highlander so i picked another suv from the same company which is cooler looking to me around the same price.

i agree thecarnut that the trip itself is more important than the mode of transportation. 

many people hate suvs for paved road travel.  it smacks of waste.  i dislike minivans because they look feeble.  Yes, i freely admit, i choose form over function in this case.  It's all shades of grey.  Depends what the cost of gas is, how large my family is, etc. etc.  I'll take the compromise in cabin space to get a cooler looking 3 row suv over a minivan any day.  Not something equally ugly like a veracruz or something.  But one of the gm lambda clones, mazda cx9, honda pilot... sure.  The highlander is just o.k.  I'd take it over a sienna.

i don't live in europe where wages are smaller, taxes are higher, gas is way costlier, the roads are way narrower, and the speeds people drive are way higher; all of which make suvs much less appealing. this isn't a knock on europe.  it's just the way it is.

[Raza]

I'm not hugely concerned with what people think of what I drive.

Clearly.   

[SVT32V]

Iffy's point that there isn't much difference between a highlander or other xover vs a minivan is well taken, if I surmise his line of thought correctly.

I would think a fishing trip/camping trip would provide some opportunity for off-road travel that would be suited to a 4runner over the other mentions.

[TurboDan]

the issue is that the raised height and significantly beefier tires of an SUV make it more appealing to look at. 

Unless you live in a flood prone area and need some extra ground clearance and fording ability. Then it becomes functional the first time you don't have to park 10 blocks from your house and walk.   

(And yes, this is from experience.  )