Ram Pick-up Among Top 10 Interiors & Other 9 Winners for 2013-14

[LonghornTX]

Yep.  Why should this truck have won?  It's nothing drastically different than what was in it before.  The top pad is still poorly done, and there's nothing particularly impressive or new about it.

Because it is easily the best full size truck interior, both in execution and materials. I can't tell you how many of my friends, who are zealots for Ford trucks, have told me how much they the loved the interior of that truck after they sat in it at the local auto show. It also utilizes a shifter mechanism other than on the column (it has to be that way, of course, because of the transmission), which is a huge change for the segment.

I have the same opinion that you do of this truck for the Avalon, which goes to show how subjective interiors are (as someone else noted already)

[LonghornTX]

Longhorn works for Fiat/Chrysler, remember? I remember him giving us shit because we all thought the Cherokee is ugly.

Someone still smarting from being called a Chinese car design apologist?

[2o6]

Someone still smarting from being called a Chinese car design apologist?

Its not a pretty car.

[LonghornTX]

Its not a pretty car.

It is unique, and that is what matters in that segment, where most of the offerings have cues from the others (including the Cherokee in the rear). It was a calculated decision, so I guess we will see how it turns out 

[2o6]

It is unique, and that is what matters in that segment, where most of the offerings have cues from the others (including the Cherokee in the rear). It was a calculated decision, so I guess we will see how it turns out 

It isnt unique, either. That rear end is from the Sportage, except nowhere near as well executed.

[SVT666]

He said the rear wasn't unique.   The front may be unique, but it is one ugly ass motherfucker of a unique front end.

[MrH]

Because it is easily the best full size truck interior, both in execution and materials. I can't tell you how many of my friends, who are zealots for Ford trucks, have told me how much they the loved the interior of that truck after they sat in it at the local auto show. It also utilizes a shifter mechanism other than on the column (it has to be that way, of course, because of the transmission), which is a huge change for the segment.

I have the same opinion that you do of this truck for the Avalon, which goes to show how subjective interiors are (as someone else noted already)

Best of full truck interiors is like being tops in the slow class right now.  I'd argue the upcoming Silverado and Sierra is infinitely better too.

As for the shifter mechanism...you do realize other trucks have column shifters too, right?  Jaguar and Land Rover have been doing the transmission dial thing for years.  Nothing too wild in my opinion.


The Avalon brings all sorts of stuff in the interior game that's new and unique:  Full cut & sew instrument panel with a polyurethane skin.  That's pretty rare for it's price segment.  Pretty different trim finish around the radio too.  The valence panel is really unique too (new material used on it, lack of paint, molded in speaker grills).  Lots of relatively new stuff for the market segment, and REALLY well executed.

[LonghornTX]

Best of full truck interiors is like being tops in the slow class right now.  I'd argue the upcoming Silverado and Sierra is infinitely better too.

As for the shifter mechanism...you do realize other trucks have column shifters too, right?  Jaguar and Land Rover have been doing the transmission dial thing for years.  Nothing too wild in my opinion.


The Avalon brings all sorts of stuff in the interior game that's new and unique:  Full cut & sew instrument panel with a polyurethane skin.  That's pretty rare for it's price segment.  Pretty different trim finish around the radio too.  The valence panel is really unique too (new material used on it, lack of paint, molded in speaker grills).  Lots of relatively new stuff for the market segment, and REALLY well executed.

Again, show me another competitive full-size truck (not the Tundra/Titan) that has anything other than a column mounted shifter. In a full-size truck, that is a huge change considering the demographic segments that buy these trucks. I haven't seen the new Silverado/Sierra in person yet, but nothing about that interior (from pictures) looks more impressive than this one, especially the materials.

Sorry, I don't buy the Avalon argument. I sat in that car in the auto show, and while it had decent material quality, I was not bowled over by the design or overall execution of the interior. It may utilize innovative interior finishes from its suppliers, and for that it should lauded, but it didn't stand out to me. Then again, I don't really like the way Toyota does interiors in general, so there is that.

At the end of the day, this is just another subjective ranking.

[LonghornTX]

It isnt unique, either. That rear end is from the Sportage, except nowhere near as well executed.

Looks pretty unique to me

[SVT666]

Again, show me another competitive full-size truck (not the Tundra/Titan) that has anything other than a column mounted shifter. In a full-size truck, that is a huge change considering the demographic segments that buy these trucks. I haven't seen the new Silverado/Sierra in person yet, but nothing about that interior (from pictures) looks more impressive than this one, especially the materials.

Sorry, I don't buy the Avalon argument. I sat in that car in the auto show, and while it had decent material quality, I was not bowled over by the design or overall execution of the interior. It may utilize innovative interior finishes from its suppliers, and for that it should lauded, but it didn't stand out to me. Then again, I don't really like the way Toyota does interiors in general, so there is that.

At the end of the day, this is just another subjective ranking.

What do you mean by "column mounted shifter"?  AFAIK, every full size truck has console mounted shifters.

[LonghornTX]

What do you mean by "column mounted shifter"?  AFAIK, every full size truck has console mounted shifters.

The ones you pull down that are attached to the column?

Yea, I was thinking of the 3/4 and full ton segments. They are optional on the F-150s. My bad  . Still, the rotary shifter in a truck is a pretty big change. Ram has gotten a bit of blow back by going with it because it is so different

[MrH]

Again, show me another competitive full-size truck (not the Tundra/Titan) that has anything other than a column mounted shifter. In a full-size truck, that is a huge change considering the demographic segments that buy these trucks. I haven't seen the new Silverado/Sierra in person yet, but nothing about that interior (from pictures) looks more impressive than this one, especially the materials.

Sorry, I don't buy the Avalon argument. I sat in that car in the auto show, and while it had decent material quality, I was not bowled over by the design or overall execution of the interior. It may utilize innovative interior finishes from its suppliers, and for that it should lauded, but it didn't stand out to me. Then again, I don't really like the way Toyota does interiors in general, so there is that.

At the end of the day, this is just another subjective ranking.

Subjective, but they should still be based in reality.  A non-column shifter is nothing revolutionary.  Other vehicles have rotary knobs.  F150's have a console shifter.  I pointed out a ton of reasons why the Avalon deserved it.  I'm still waiting on why the Ram deserves it.

Saying you can judge the quality of the materials of a vehicle that isn't even in production, based on press release photos at that, is beyond ridiculous.  I get it, you work for Chrysler.  If you're going to bother trying to come across as objective, you're going to need to do a better job than that.

[LonghornTX]

Subjective, but they should still be based in reality.  A non-column shifter is nothing revolutionary.  Other vehicles have rotary knobs.  F150's have a console shifter.  I pointed out a ton of reasons why the Avalon deserved it.  I'm still waiting on why the Ram deserves it.

A rotary shifter in a truck IS pretty revolutionary, considering the usage scenarios a truck like that would endure. That is not the same as a Jaguar, or even a Land Rover. Ask anybody who has ever worked on a truck program (Ford/Chevy/etc.) in the past year (when the transmissions became available that require a e-shifter) and they will tell you the same.

BTW, I wouldn't say you pointed out a ton of reasons why the Avalon deserved it. You pointed out that it has a stitched dash (like some models of the LaCrosse and 300 have) and it has some unique trim pieces. 

The Laramie Longhorn uses what feels like the quality of leather that the King Ranch models used to have (best in the segment, not sure the specific supplier). The Laramie is now what the King Ranch use to be in terms of quality of materials and fit and finish. Considering the volumes that the segment does, having the best interior available is kind of a big deal.

Saying you can judge the quality of the materials of a vehicle that isn't even in production, based on press release photos at that, is beyond ridiculous.  I get it, you work for Chrysler.  If you're going to bother trying to come across as objective, you're going to need to do a better job than that.

But you can "argue the upcoming Silverado and Sierra is infinitely better too" from the same photos? SMH. BTW, there are plenty of photos out there, the truck has been on the circuit.

Dude, I am not trying to say I am not biased. I work for a car company, clearly I have my biases. But I also call em' like I see em'.

[SVT666]

Wait a minute.  MrH is claiming this:



is better than this:



or this:

[MrH]

A rotary shifter in a truck IS pretty revolutionary, considering the usage scenarios a truck like that would endure. That is not the same as a Jaguar, or even a Land Rover. Ask anybody who has ever worked on a truck program (Ford/Chevy/etc.) in the past year (when the transmissions became available that require a e-shifter) and they will tell you the same.

Like you said, everything now is e-shifters, so making a stick into a knob...sorry, not impressed.  And yes, I've worked on a truck program.  Not sure what you're getting at there...

BTW, I wouldn't say you pointed out a ton of reasons why the Avalon deserved it. You pointed out that it has a stitched dash (like some models of the LaCrosse and 300 have) and it has some unique trim pieces. 

The Laramie Longhorn uses what feels like the quality of leather that the King Ranch models used to have (best in the segment, not sure the specific supplier). The Laramie is now what the King Ranch use to be in terms of quality of materials and fit and finish. Considering the volumes that the segment does, having the best interior available is kind of a big deal.
But you can "argue the upcoming Silverado and Sierra is infinitely better too" from the same photos? SMH. BTW, there are plenty of photos out there, the truck has been on the circuit.

Dude, I am not trying to say I am not biased. I work for a car company, clearly I have my biases. But I also call em' like I see em'.

The Lacrosse is just decorative seams sewn onto a formed skin.  The 300 has real leather, and won the award last year (and deservingly so).  I can't think of another vehicle in that price point offering the same kind of instrument panel, so it's pretty different.  The acetal windshield close out is something really unique from a cost stand point.  These are much more quantifiable than simply "I like it better", which is what you're going with.

I'm not arguing about it over the same photos.  I've seen it in person multiple times.  It was at Detroit this year, along with a few other local autoshows I went to.  To say you can judge "material quality" through press release photos is nuts.  Most of those are renderings anyways.  You want to tell me how the haptics vary between two renderings?

Wait a minute.  MrH is claiming this:

You're posting a base level Silverado against a top level Ram.



That, especially in other color variants...yes, I'd say it's better.

[SVT666]

You're posting a base level Silverado against a top level Ram.



That, especially in other color variants...yes, I'd say it's better.

Disagree.

[GoCougs]

Wait a minute.  MrH is claiming this:



is better than this:



or this:

I would agree with MrH. The bottom two look like caricatures - the Ford looks ridiculous to me. The Chevy is just being a functional yet appropriate furnished truck interior.

[GoCougs]

Rotary shifter is "revolutionary" how exactly? It's just different and IMO the market won't see value in it as the ergonomics of it are a mess. When it comes to mucking about with the shifter as in parking a trailer or off-roading nothing beats the ergonomics of a column shifter owing to its proximity to the steering wheel.

[SVT666]

I would agree with MrH. The bottom two look like caricatures - the Ford looks ridiculous to me. The Chevy is just being a functional yet appropriate furnished truck interior.

How exactly do they look like caricatures?  The Chevy has a huge oversized center stack and harkens back to the really high and "in your face" billboard style dash my 1991 GMC had.

[LonghornTX]

Like you said, everything now is e-shifters, so making a stick into a knob...sorry, not impressed.  And yes, I've worked on a truck program.  Not sure what you're getting at there...

You work at a supplier, no? If I am mistaken, please correct me, but that is not the same as working (particularly planning) on a vehicle at the OEM level. I don't care if you aren't impressed, I am not here to try to convince you. I can only tell you that it is a pretty big change (for better or worse is subjective, I agree) for a number of reasons confirmed by ethnographic research, ranging from how men feel about a knob like that instead of some type of physical shifter to how workers would operate something like that in thick gloves. REMEMBER, this is on all Rams now w/ the six, and probably in the near future be standard on the eights, so even the workaday 1500 has a rotary. That is quite a big change for the segment. If somebody thought positively of it, like many have so far, I don't see why it is so hard to acknowledge its relevance.

The Lacrosse is just decorative seams sewn onto a formed skin.  The 300 has real leather, and won the award last year (and deservingly so).  I can't think of another vehicle in that price point offering the same kind of instrument panel, so it's pretty different.  The acetal windshield close out is something really unique from a cost stand point.  These are much more quantifiable than simply "I like it better", which is what you're going with.

"To determine the winners, editors drive the vehicles during their routine commutes and submit score sheets ranking each auto interior based on several criteria, including materials, ergonomics, comfort, safety, value, fit-and-finish and overall design. Scores also are applied based on the user-friendliness of the human-machine interface and the ability to link mobile phones and access vehicle information. Video reviews and photo galleries of evaluated vehicles may be found at http://wardsauto.com, and full write-ups on each winner will post on April 29"

That is how these vehicles were chosen for the list...doesn't sound like anyone is going to place much emphasis on your windshield surround in that kind of scenario. In fact, it made me realize that they probably considered all aspects of the interior, not just materials and placement (I am not a Ward's interior winner list fanboy, so I never really cared to learn how they chose winners). That makes it pretty easy to pick the Laramie considering how much better the new uConnect system is (it debuted on the 13'), not to mention the gauge cluster. It is also a WiFi hot spot. Add on top of that the vastly superior materials compared to its class, and it seems pretty clear why the truck won.

I'm not arguing about it over the same photos.  I've seen it in person multiple times.  It was at Detroit this year, along with a few other local autoshows I went to.  To say you can judge "material quality" through press release photos is nuts.  Most of those are renderings anyways.  You want to tell me how the haptics vary between two renderings?

You can tell a lot from photos, especially about trim pieces. And I will repeat again, there are a TON of photos out there of these vehicles that are IRL, not just renderings. True, leather/material quality for the seats is hard to judge, but that is not everything.

[LonghornTX]

Rotary shifter is "revolutionary" how exactly? It's just different and IMO the market won't see value in it as the ergonomics of it are a mess. When it comes to mucking about with the shifter as in parking a trailer or off-roading nothing beats the ergonomics of a column shifter owing to its proximity to the steering wheel.

It actually makes operating the truck much easier once you get use to it, especially for situations with trailers, owning to its ability to quickly shift between gears (like drive and reverse) when compared with a column. You can do it without looking with the rotary much easier than a column

[LonghornTX]

You're posting a base level Silverado against a top level Ram.



That, especially in other color variants...yes, I'd say it's better.

Don't back down now, you said it was "infinitely better"...

[SVT666]

It actually makes operating the truck much easier once you get use to it, especially for situations with trailers, owning to its ability to quickly shift between gears (like drive and reverse) when compared with a column. You can do it without looking with the rotary much easier than a column

I would argue that.  I never look at the gate in any auto I've ever owned because I know what gear it's in just by where the shifter is.

[LonghornTX]

I would argue that.  I never look at the gate in any auto I've ever owned because I know what gear it's in just by where the shifter is.

Agreed, there is an argument to be made there. It is by no means an absolute for everyone, but it tends to be the case more often than not when compared with a column shifter. Console shifters work a bit easier with muscle memory. It will be interesting to see what the others eventually adopt, as I would imagine they will end up using a similar variant of the ZF 8 speed that requires an e-shifter...My bet is they also go with a rotary vs. an electronic column (which are generally terrible in my experience) or an electric console.

[SVT666]

Agreed, there is an argument to be made there. It is by no means an absolute for everyone, but it tends to be the case more often than not when compared with a column shifter. Console shifters work a bit easier with muscle memory. It will be interesting to see what the others eventually adopt, as I would imagine they will end up using a similar variant of the ZF 8 speed that requires an e-shifter...My bet is they also go with a rotary vs. an electronic column (which are generally terrible in my experience) or an electric console.

Just the location of the rotary shifter in the Ram makes me think it wouldn't be easy to use.  Especially since it's round and there is no point on it or anything that would suggest you could do it by feel rather than having to look at it.

[CJ]

The Silverado Craig posted is hardly base model.  It has heated and cooled seats, navigation, and leather.  Hardly base.  The Ram and the F150 CURRENTLY have the best interiors.  Nobody's been in the new GM trucks, so nobody can comment on any aspect of their interiors that's not styling.

[MrH]

The Silverado Craig posted is hardly base model.  It has heated and cooled seats, navigation, and leather.  Hardly base.  The Ram and the F150 CURRENTLY have the best interiors.  Nobody's been in the new GM trucks, so nobody can comment on any aspect of their interiors that's not styling.

No, it is the base model.  Hard, painted plastic instrument panel, not the optional soft one with stitch lines.  And yes, I have seen it in person multiple times.


I'll answer Longhorn when I get a chance later today.

[CJ]

It's still not the base model.  It still has heated seats.  It still has dual-zone automatic climate control, it still has an upgraded radio, navigation, 4WD, etc.  It's NOT the base model. 

[SVT666]

It's still not the base model.  It still has heated seats.  It still has dual-zone automatic climate control, it still has an upgraded radio, navigation, 4WD, etc.  It's NOT the base model.

It's mid level at worst.

[CJ]

Simply because you may be the supplier for the Silverado's interior doesn't automatically make it OMFG GOOD SO GOOD BETTER THAN THE REST OMFG RAM SUCKS.