Mk7 VW GTI

[Soup DeVille]

Has the new Range Rover taught us nothing?  I was hoping the idea of locking differentials and solid axles as a requirement for "off-road credentials" was dead.

Land Rovers, the old gnarly ones with "off road cred?"

They never had locking diffs.

[Raza]

It is, but "jumping on a bandwagon" and capitalizing on a good idea are not mutually exclusive

Yeah, there's nothing wrong here.  I mean, Volkswagen is making an effort in the US market, instead of just selling some things here.  And while they're leaving a lot of people behind, they're getting a lot, lot more new VW people.  My friends would never even have considered the old Passat, but bought the new one because they drove it and loved it.  They're not car people.  They're not the people who would ever have looked at Volkswagen.  They've only ever had Japanese cars.  Now, my friends are building loyalty to VW like they never would have before.  His wife now wants to buy a Tiguan.  Take my other friend for a different example.  He has a B6 Passat.  Loves it.  Can't stand the new one.  What's the top contender for his next car?  GTI.  That's right.  He's staying with Volkswagen, but wants the smaller, sportier GTI over the newer car. 

Point here is that as long as Volkswagen continues to make cars for enthusiasts, it's a good thing that they make cars for everyone else too.  It's how business is done.  This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.  As long as they don't completely abandon people who like to drive, there's nothing to really complain about. 

[Catman]

Yes it does!  Please tell me it's coming here?

Yes, in 2014 soon.  Alltrack too.

[MrH]

Land Rovers, the old gnarly ones with "off road cred?"

They never had locking diffs.

Well, this mindset that you have to have solid axles and locking differentials to off-road at all is pretty silly.  The new Range Rover sends torque around to the appropriate wheel, raises itself up with air suspension.  It's pretty damn capable without that stuff and is actually pleasant to drive on roads too.

[SVT32V]

Land Rovers, the old gnarly ones with "off road cred?"

They never had locking diffs.

Neither did a CJ or YJ, however, they all (defender, 190 what have you) had lockable low range center differential and I would argue that they were modded to really have off-road prowess.

[SVT32V]

Well, this mindset that you have to have solid axles and locking differentials to off-road at all is pretty silly.  The new Range Rover sends torque around to the appropriate wheel, raises itself up with air suspension.  It's pretty damn capable without that stuff and is actually pleasant to drive on roads too.

Strawman on the solid axles, and it really depends on the offroading and the price of the vehicles. Solid axles are certainly going to be better for rock crawling (among others) against all but the most expensive independent suspension systems.

Comparing a very expensive range rover with a sophisticated awd system against your avg awd SUV/CUV isn't really a reasonable comparison. Nonetheless it still retains a 2 spd transfer case that can be locked, so your range rover argument really doesn't hold water.

[Secret Chimp]

Wtf is everyone talking about? I thought this was a GTI thread.

[SVT666]

Strawman on the solid axles, and it really depends on the offroading and the price of the vehicles. Solid axles are certainly going to be better for rock crawling (among others) against all but the most expensive independent suspension systems.

Comparing a very expensive range rover with a sophisticated awd system against your avg awd SUV/CUV isn't really a reasonable comparison. Nonetheless it still retains a 2 spd transfer case that can be locked, so your range rover argument really doesn't hold water.

Independent suspension doesn't have the articulation either. 

[MexicoCityM3]

Wtf is everyone talking about? I thought this was a GTI thread.

CarSpin threads.

[MrH]

Strawman on the solid axles, and it really depends on the offroading and the price of the vehicles. Solid axles are certainly going to be better for rock crawling (among others) against all but the most expensive independent suspension systems.

Comparing a very expensive range rover with a sophisticated awd system against your avg awd SUV/CUV isn't really a reasonable comparison. Nonetheless it still retains a 2 spd transfer case that can be locked, so your range rover argument really doesn't hold water.

And the Cayenne has a 1st gear lower than most low speed differentials.

I'm just making the point that you don't need solid axles or a transfer case to have off-road credentials.  Just a bunch of non-sense.

[Soup DeVille]

Neither did a CJ or YJ, however, they all (defender, 190 what have you) had lockable low range center differential and I would argue that they were modded to really have off-road prowess.

No, they never had a center diff.

[SVT32V]

No, they never had a center diff.

Sorry, meant low speed transfer case that locked the front and back.

[SVT32V]

And the Cayenne has a 1st gear lower than most low speed differentials.

Not sure this helps your argument since you need to multiply the low-speed gear ratio by the 1st gear ratio to get the crawl ratio (obviously the true crawl ratio also includes X axle ratio). So your avg low speed transfer case gear is 2.72. Multiplying that by any 1st gear ratio found in a truck/SUV with a 2 spd tran case is usually going to be much higher (numerically) than 4.68 of the cayenne 1st gear.

I'm just making the point that you don't need solid axles or a transfer case to have off-road credentials.  Just a bunch of non-sense.

No you don't the H1 has an independent suspension with reasonable articulation, of course at a high price. Overall though these things (SA and transfer case) correlate with better creds, it is not nonsense no matter how many times you repeat it.

[GoCougs]

IMO live axles and lockable t-case have "creds" simply because the vast majority of 4WD vehicles used to any meaningful degree off road today; those from the '70s, '80s and '90s - Blazers, Broncos, 4Runners, pickups (and even then by the '80s a lot of those had IFS); were built that way (and those are the parts available in the aftermarket for custom rims) because it was dirt cheap. I can't think of any HD 4WD off road IRS + IFS vehicles built in that time period available to the regular guy (Hummer H1, Lambo LM002).

[AltinD]

The cayenne has 500+hp engines, when the toureg has that, I will be more of a fan.

But the 1st gen Touareg had a W12 engine with 450 Hp that was faster than the Cayenne Turbo of that era, the reason Porsche had to come with the Cayenne Turbo S