Opel Adam, bring it to America?

[Madman]

What is "soft serve vanilla" about the range of subcompacts we have here?

Some are vanilla, but the Ford Fiesta, MINI Cooper and Honda Fit are all standout cars.  But who's to say more choice is a bad thing?

I simply don't understand this attitude of "Well, there are enough good small cars out there already, so why do we need more?"  It's like saying "Rocky Road ice cream is good enough already so why do I want to have other choices?"  This attitude is utterly bewildering.  What ever happened to wanting more of a good thing?

And this last bit epitomizes why you should move to Europe. Instead of accepting that it's OK for that mom to not want a subcompact, you have to shame her and call her names, as if the added cargo room doesn't help with daily cargo like strollers and toys, or the higher hip height isn't a boon for loading kids into car seats and safety in general. Maybe you can move to Europe, run for public office and mandate that everybody drive subcompacts. That oughta prove how great they are

What does any of this have to do with Europe?  Have you ever travelled overseas?  I have and I can tell you there are more places around the world besides Europe where sensibly-sized cars are the norm.  Do you really think people overseas don't have strollers, luggage and groceries to carry?  I can assure you they most certainly do and it all fits just fine in a normally proportioned car.  Granted, there are some people who actually do need a very big vehicle, but they constitute a very small percentage of the people who flock to these oversized behemoths.

Naw, here in America we have these things called choice and free will.

Do we, really?  Okay, I want to buy a Renault Megane RS.  Oh, wait, I can't because some pencil pushers in Washington won't let me.  I can buy that three-wheeled Chinese deathtrap I posted in the Craiglist/Autotrader thread a couple of months back but I can't buy a proper car that is sold in developed countries throughout the world?  That's asinine!  So much for "Freedom of Choice!"

When Europeans move to the US, I tell you hwut, they damn sure don't buy subcompacts at the rates they do in Europe. Bigger roads and freedom from draconian taxes from control freaks like yourself enable that.

Funny you should mention that.  I know quite a few Europeans living here and yes, upon arrival, nearly all of them bought the biggest, most obnoxious and stereotypically "American" thing they could find.  And then, once the novelty wore off and they realised how silly and/or crap it was, they got rid of it and bought something altogether more sensible and appropriate to their real needs.

Not to mention, even if they brought the Adam over, what would it change for you? You would NOT buy one, not until it was 8-10 years old. So what exactly is your end goal?

Actually, I am seriously considering leasing my next car.  I'll still keep the Mazda for the times I need something bigger.  There are some seriously good lease deals out there right now.  The Adam would have certainly been a contender but, if I do pull the trigger on a lease, I will now have to look elsewhere.  Fiesta, Fit, MINI and Fiat 500 are all in the running.

[93JC]

So, you don't like having choices, right?

Okay, you win.  I'm off to buy a beige Camry and a ridiculous monster-sized SUV just so I can be like everyone else.

Isn't mindless conformity great?!?!?!?

This isn't about a lack of choice specifically, it's your whinging about "clueless housewives in their Monstermobile XXL Edition SUVs" and "beige Camrys". You want smaller cars to be popular here and you want SUVs and Toyota Camrys to be unpopular: fine, good, whatever. If you want that I can tell you right where to find it: go to Europe.

We get it: you're an Anglophile. You want to play cricket and drink tea and putter around some charming little English town in a Vauxhall Adam. So go, do it, none of us are going to stop you. Just spare us all the incessant whinging about it.

[Madman]

This isn't about a lack of choice specifically, it's your whinging about "clueless housewives in their Monstermobile XXL Edition SUVs" and "beige Camrys". You want smaller cars to be popular here and you want SUVs and Toyota Camrys to be unpopular: fine, good, whatever.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.  You can have your beige Toyotas and your Monstermobile XXL Edition SUVs, too.  Buy all of them you want.  But, by the same token, why can't I have the reasonably sized car OF MY CHOOSING without having to settle for something else?

Maybe I want a Japanese Kei car?  Or an Australian Ute like a Falcon or a Commodore?  Or let's say I do want a Monstermoile SUV and get one of the last Land Rover Defender Final Edition models?  If I have the money, I should be able to buy WHAT I WANT.  That's what FREEDOM OF CHOICE means!

And, with freedom of choice also comes freedom of speech.  Which means I can make fun of you if I think you bought a stupid car, just like how you have every right to make fun of me if you think I bought a stupid car. 

[Cookie Monster]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.  You can have your beige Toyotas and your Monstermobile XXL Edition SUVs, too.  Buy all of them you want.  But, by the same token, why can't I have the reasonably sized car OF MY CHOOSING without having to settle for something else?

Maybe I want a Japanese Kei car?  Or an Australian Ute like a Falcon or a Commodore?  Or let's say I do want a Monstermoile SUV and get one of the last Land Rover Defender Final Edition models?  If I have the money, I should be able to buy WHAT I WANT.  That's what FREEDOM OF CHOICE means!

And, with freedom of choice also comes freedom of speech.  Which means I can make fun of you if I think you bought a stupid car, just like how you have every right to make fun of me if you think I bought a stupid car. 

You really have no idea how supply and demand works, do you?

[93JC]

And if you lived in Europe would you be bitching about "a lack of choice"? No, no you wouldn't. So it's not about the so-called lack of choice (and European consumers' choices are very much limited), it's about a lack of little cars that you want.

Boo-fuckity-hoo, move to Europe, fuckity-bye.

[Madman]

You really have no idea how supply and demand works, do you?

Rest assured, I do.

Likewise, I'm not at all certain you know how non-tariff barriers work, because that's the real issue here.

[Laconian]

+1

I think we'd be driving more mini trucks and fewer monster trucks if the chicken tax didn't exist...

[2o6]

Mini trucks don't really make that much econonimc sense, aside from a B segment coupe utility.



Full size trucks are remarkably efficient for their size.

[CJ]

I have the SRX and the bf has his Genesis. We're everything Madman hates. I love it.

[FoMoJo]

I have the SRX and the bf has his Genesis. We're everything Madman hates. I love it.

Just to enhance my mental image of the various posters here...you really are a 55 year old woman?

[CJ]

Just to enhance my mental image of the various posters here...you really are a 55 year old woman?

I'm a 23 year old male.



Edit: Here I am the last time I broke my hand...

[12,000 RPM]

Rest assured, I do.

Likewise, I'm not at all certain you know how non-tariff barriers work, because that's the real issue here.

You have no idea how supply and demand works.

America is easily the least restricted auto market in the developed world. If cars don't sell here, it's because people don't want them, period. Nobody wants kei cars. Even the Japanese. If there were no kei car laws, nobody would buy them. Holdens are so awesome they are going out of production in 2017. Honda CR-Vs sell because they are good cars that people want. The Opel Adam, kei cars, Holdens etc are not. Not to say what's popular is always BEST, but it's generally pretty good, "beige Camry" included. More choice is of no value if the added choices are no better or different than what's already available.

Bottom line I don't think you really care about the Opel Adam; it's just an avenue for you to try to pretend to have taste and be different. It's not working

[93JC]

+1

I think we'd be driving more mini trucks and fewer monster trucks if the chicken tax didn't exist...

No we wouldn't.

Regarding why Ford doesn't sell the new global Ranger here:

Ford's official answer is there isn't enough profit to make Rangers.

And right they are. "Mid-size" trucks cost almost as much to build as a full-size truck and to make any money on them they need to be priced as such. Most people would just buy the full-size truck anyway.

I bet Ford would lose money on every single Ranger it would sell here, and I'm also bearish on the future success of the Colorado/Canyon.

Then make them without four doors, leather wrapped dashboards and wifi hootspoots?

Why? You get rid of four-doors, nice interiors and some tech options you've screwed yourself because those were your high margin products. Now your profit margin per unit is zero—or worse—and you're only going to sell 20% of the number of them you would have in the first place because you've alienated 80% of your potential customer base by offering to sell them a bare-bones POS for 70% of the cost of a well-equipped full-size. Despite getting rid of the four-door option and nice interiors and techy crap your mid-size truck is still almost as much to build as your full-size truck.

20% of 0 is what?

Not negative. Not a loss. It costs a car company nothing to not build a compact pickup truck.

If you spend half a billion dollars designing and building a compact pickup truck, sell 20,000 of them every year and make no profit whatsoever on the sale of those trucks you're out half a billion dollars. If you build them a little fancier, sell 100,000 of them per year and make $1000 profit per pickup truck sold you start making some money after five years.

Or you can build a full-size pickup truck, sell 400,000 of them every year and make $1500 per unit sold. You're in the black before the end of your first model year's production run.

And I have a hard time buying that a basic compact (what's this midsize stuff?) pickup is going to be nearly as expensive as an all-aluminum turbo F150.

How much do you think a compact pickup truck should cost to buy? How cheap would it have to be to get you to buy one?

It would have to undercut the Tacoma. And you have a point; I likely wouldn't buy one at any price.

Big trucks sell well precisely because they're not small. The Chicken Tax is almost moot at this point. Would you buy something like a Fiat Strada?



No, fuck no you wouldn't. It would be laughed off the market, derided as a gutless little "leisure" vehicle turd.

[12,000 RPM]

But I want one! I'm not going to buy it, but I want it!!!!!

[CALL_911]

No we wouldn't.

Regarding why Ford doesn't sell the new global Ranger here:

Big trucks sell well precisely because they're not small. The Chicken Tax is almost moot at this point. Would you buy something like a Fiat Strada?



No, fuck no you wouldn't. It would be laughed off the market, derided as a gutless little "leisure" vehicle turd.

[2o6]

I think the Fiat Strada would have a niche, but it won't be "in droves".

[ifcar]

I think the Fiat Strada would have a niche, but it won't be "in droves".

I agree. I believe it's also a pretty niche model in the rest of the world, too. I see it being the handiest for commercial uses in which they want to be able to just quickly throw something in the back and quickly grab it back out, without needing a true truck's capability and perhaps being turned off by its high bed height. For instance, you see them buzzing around European airports.

And some people would buy it just because it's fairly affordable transportation that they like. When Ford discontinued the Ranger, it said that many of its buyers would likely just switch to the Fiesta or Focus because they were at similar price points. Some of those buyers might shift back away from small cars to something more pickup-like, especially to a fuel-efficient alternative.

But presumably the niche would be too small to justify U.S. production, which is where the Chicken Tax issue does come in.

[AutobahnSHO]

Subaru Baja.

Sold a small number, to a customer base already looking for something goofy. Didn't keep selling them.

[ifcar]

Subaru Baja.

Sold a small number, to a customer base already looking for something goofy. Didn't keep selling them.

It was too expensive and the bed was too small.

[12,000 RPM]

Some are vanilla, but the Ford Fiesta, MINI Cooper and Honda Fit are all standout cars.  But who's to say more choice is a bad thing?

I simply don't understand this attitude of "Well, there are enough good small cars out there already, so why do we need more?"  It's like saying "Rocky Road ice cream is good enough already so why do I want to have other choices?"  This attitude is utterly bewildering.  What ever happened to wanting more of a good thing?

The USDM has spoken.... there is not enough demand to justify the cost of bringing the Adam here. As a consumer, sure, hey, car companies should bring all their cars here and let me have them for free. As a member of the global economy though, bad business = harbingers for more recessions and bailouts. So if GM doesn't want to bring the Adam I support them.

What does any of this have to do with Europe?  Have you ever travelled overseas?  I have and I can tell you there are more places around the world besides Europe where sensibly-sized cars are the norm.  Do you really think people overseas don't have strollers, luggage and groceries to carry?  I can assure you they most certainly do and it all fits just fine in a normally proportioned car.  Granted, there are some people who actually do need a very big vehicle, but they constitute a very small percentage of the people who flock to these oversized behemoths.

Actually, I have traveled A LOT, and I even rented a Panda in Europe:

http://www.carspin.net/index.php?topic=28124.msg1780620#msg1780620

But I don't have to go to Europe to know that a subcompact makes for a shitty family car in the context of what's currently available. My mom drove 88-91 Corollas when my brother and I were in elementary school. Once my little sister came in the picture we pretty much had to get a minivan for the 5 of us to travel anywhere. And even with just my sister, her kid seat and stroller took up space that was needed for shit like groceries. CUVs just work better. Europeans are loving them too bro.

Do we, really?  Okay, I want to buy a Renault Megane RS.  Oh, wait, I can't because some pencil pushers in Washington won't let me.  I can buy that three-wheeled Chinese deathtrap I posted in the Craiglist/Autotrader thread a couple of months back but I can't buy a proper car that is sold in developed countries throughout the world?  That's asinine!  So much for "Freedom of Choice!"

But you have no problem with those Washington pencil pushers punishing the rich as you please. Give me a break.

Funny you should mention that.  I know quite a few Europeans living here and yes, upon arrival, nearly all of them bought the biggest, most obnoxious and stereotypically "American" thing they could find.  And then, once the novelty wore off and they realised how silly and/or crap it was, they got rid of it and bought something altogether more sensible and appropriate to their real needs.

Did any of them get CUVs? Did you yell at them and call them names as you did the "stereotypical housewife"? Did any of them complain about not being able to buy Opel Adams?

Actually, I am seriously considering leasing my next car.  I'll still keep the Mazda for the times I need something bigger.  There are some seriously good lease deals out there right now.  The Adam would have certainly been a contender but, if I do pull the trigger on a lease, I will now have to look elsewhere.  Fiesta, Fit, MINI and Fiat 500 are all in the running.

Imagine that. FOUR contenders. And again I have to ask, what does the Adam offer that the others don't, besides not being the others?

[12,000 RPM]

It was too expensive and the bed was too small.

Hard to justify against something like a Transit

[Madman]

If CarSpin held a fashion show, it would look something like this.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ


Because choice is BAD! 

[12,000 RPM]

Choice is good. Choice nobody wants that will cost a company money isn't. What you are crying for is basically like someone going to a restaurant and demanding them revive an unpopular, unprofitable menu item "just cause". Opel Adam is barely treading water in its home turf.... it will fail here

[2o6]

Jeep should totally make this concept they showed a few weeks ago.

Well, with a fixed roof at least

[AutobahnSHO]

It was too expensive and the bed was too small.

Bigger bed than that Fiat above.

[AutobahnSHO]

Jeep should totally make this concept they showed a few weeks ago.
Well, with a fixed roof at least

Would sell well, I'd guess.

[ifcar]

Bigger bed than that Fiat above.

The more popular of the Fiats isn't an extended cab. I've never seen that one in person, as best as I can recall, but plenty of these:

[12,000 RPM]

Would sell well, I'd guess.

I dont know if even Jeep could bring back the single cab truck en masse.

[2o6]

I dont know if even Jeep could bring back the single cab truck en masse.

They could easily make a double/extended cab with that design.

[93JC]

I'm calling it right now: if they build a Jeep pickup it'll be a four-door Wrangler with a wee little bed.