TDI vs gas 6cyl in the Q5

[hotrodalex]

Depends on the area. When you get closer to cities they tend to not have diesel at every station. Most anything off a freeway will, though.

[hotrodalex]

It just seems like the diesel option doesn't provide many "pros" and while it might not provide a whole lot of "cons" either, the gas engine is what she's used to and I don't see a reason to switch to diesel other than novelty.

[Soup DeVille]

It just seems like the diesel option doesn't provide many "pros" and while it might not provide a whole lot of "cons" either, the gas engine is what she's used to and I don't see a reason to switch to diesel other than novelty.

That's fair.

[BENZ BOY15]

Circa 2000 or so I had the chance to drive a spanking new Lexus RX.  Underwhelming doesn't even begin to describe my impression of the thing.  Body roll was so immense it felt positively DANGEROUS!  I seriously couldn't believe how bad it was.  Judging by what I've read about the current model, not much has changed.  Between the RX and Q5, the Audi wins every time.  Glad to see somebody in your family has good taste! 

And where the hell do some of you guys live where you can't find diesel?  Every gas station I see has at least one diesel pump. 

Yeah most if not all gas stations had diesel. I just worry that somebody might put gas instead of diesel. Not me, but I can see my mom doing it.

[BENZ BOY15]

Now they're wondering about the reliability of the tdi since it is just coming out, but the Q5 overall has great ratings.

No problem right?

[CALL_911]

Circa 2000 or so I had the chance to drive a spanking new Lexus RX.  Underwhelming doesn't even begin to describe my impression of the thing.  Body roll was so immense it felt positively DANGEROUS!  I seriously couldn't believe how bad it was.  Judging by what I've read about the current model, not much has changed.  Between the RX and Q5, the Audi wins every time.  Glad to see somebody in your family has good taste! 

And where the hell do some of you guys live where you can't find diesel?  Every gas station I see has at least one diesel pump. 

I feel the same way about my mom's A4.

It's funny, my mom's Audi embodies everything Lexus gets accused of in enthusiast circles. It's not very interesting, it's incredibly soft, it's been quite reliable, gets decent gas mileage, and is well built. Wonderful car for my mom, and I doubt she'll ever drive anything that isn't an A4 or an A6. I wouldn't want one.

[Laconian]

New to the US in that particular car, maybe, but not new...

[2o6]

Possibly, but methinks he looks at Audi through the rose-colored glasses that are the S/RS models that he has driven or owned. Basic Audis are boring as hell. Hell, I wasn't even that impressed with my friend's old B5 S4.

Truth be told, I think I'd strongly consider the RX solely due to the fact that I would prefer a V6 to a turbo-4 in a car like that.

FWIW, I don't doubt that the S/RS Audis are great and do not drive like boats. But who gives a shit? Like I said, they are irrelevant to this discussion.

Apples to apples, most steering feel and suspension roll generally is tighter in Audi products than Lexus; although they compete Lexus clientele is different - Lexus is more for comfort, Audi is more sport.

[2o6]

I feel the same way about my mom's A4.

It's funny, my mom's Audi embodies everything Lexus gets accused of in enthusiast circles. It's not very interesting, it's incredibly soft, it's been quite reliable, gets decent gas mileage, and is well built. Wonderful car for my mom, and I doubt she'll ever drive anything that isn't an A4 or an A6. I wouldn't want one.

I've driven a couple B7 A4's.....it is nowhere near as soft as a comparable Lexus ES (maybe not an IS, I haven't driven one) and it drives wayy sharper than the ES, and IMO beats the brakes off the CTS and Regal. MKZ doesn't even fucking compare - that's clearly a Ford Fusion.


The RX isn't a corner carver (it's not supposed to be), but I'm pretty sure the Audi and BMW competitors will feel more in tune with the road.



If the A4 corners "dangerously" then my Yaris must feel like a fucking pendulum in the curves, and it is nowhere near "dangerous".

Nah, forget the diesel - it's for fanboys. Costs a lot more, it's a bit stinky, it clatters, the fuel is basically a light oil so get it on your shoes/hands/carpet and it is brutal to clean off, and performance will be a lot less. Just go for the 3.0T.

I feel like that you believe if you keep saying this, you think we'll believe it.

[BENZ BOY15]

I'm curious to see how the diesel drives. She's also going to try out the 4cyl, but over that.

How is the towing with the diesel? Not like a horse trailer, but the biggest thing that will be hauled would be her skis or a small wake boarding boat. So not that heavy.

[CALL_911]

I've driven a couple B7 A4's.....it is nowhere near as soft as a comparable Lexus ES (maybe not an IS, I haven't driven one) and it drives wayy sharper than the ES, and IMO beats the brakes off the CTS and Regal. MKZ doesn't even fucking compare - that's clearly a Ford Fusion.


The RX isn't a corner carver (it's not supposed to be), but I'm pretty sure the Audi and BMW competitors will feel more in tune with the road.



If the A4 corners "dangerously" then my Yaris must feel like a fucking pendulum in the curves, and it is nowhere near "dangerous".
I feel like that you believe if you keep saying this, you think we'll believe it.

a. Who said anything about "dangerous?"
b. I've driven an IS250 AWD, while it wasn't really much better than the A4, it wasn't noticeably worse. I can't say anything about the ES. The A4 has a solid deal of body roll, the steering is numb, and the throttle response is also relatively languid. The ES can sell on the merit of its buttery smooth ride, while the A4 does not have that. I'm not bothered by the A4's ride, but the two ES350s I've ridden in were decidedly smoother.
c. He's dead right about diesels. They're more expensive than their gasoline counterparts, diesel is more expensive than gasoline and the fuel economy benefits aren't huge. It does smell pretty bad, and diesels are almost always slower than their gasoline counterparts. Financially speaking, they don't make sense, and they aren't any better.

[2o6]

a. Who said anything about "dangerous?"

b. I've driven an IS250 AWD, while it wasn't really much better than the A4, it wasn't noticeably worse. I can't say anything about the ES. The A4 has a solid deal of body roll, the steering is numb, and the throttle response is also relatively languid.

ES is roomier and faster, but handles hopelessly and the steering is one of the vaugest things out there. Why the hell is there no mods, praise, support or anything for the Lexus ES (or really any aftermarket or tuning support for any other Lexus model save for maybe the IS and possibly the GS a little) The steering ratio itself is tigher, and has more road feel than the Lexus. And I'm pretty sure the A4 is far less roly-poly than the ES...or most midsizers.

The ES can sell on the merit of its buttery smooth ride, while the A4 does not have that. I'm not bothered by the A4's ride, but the two ES350s I've ridden in were decidedly smoother.


c. He's dead right about diesels. They're more expensive than their gasoline counterparts, diesel is more expensive than gasoline and the fuel economy benefits aren't huge. It does smell pretty bad, and diesels are almost always slower than their gasoline counterparts. Financially speaking, they don't make sense, and they aren't any better.

Have you driven a modern Diesel, or are you just parroting Cougs? I'm not a super huge fan of Diesel fuel either (it's overrated) however, you just are on his dick all the time.

[Soup DeVille]

The fuel efficiency advantage is significant. If only the fuel costs and the initial purchase cost difference is clculated, it adds up to a considerable advantage over an average 5 year ownership cycle. The traditional problem with that is that the maintenance on some diesel models has eliminated that advantage- its fair to say that it works out for some vehicles and not so much for others.


As for the smell issue. Seriously guys: I don't know of anybody who likes the smell of regular gasoline so much: and I don't think many people have a problem getting it all over their shoes and hands when they fill up, so I don't know why that's a concern for diesel. Maybe some of you guys have a problem getting the nozzle in the hole? Really: take a pan full of gasoline and a pan full of diesel and tell me which one smells worse.

Even if it does: explain to me why that's so much of a problem. Hopefully nobody is planning on using either for cologne?

[BENZ BOY15]

My dad was kinda suspect of it at first but I think he now realizes the diesels of today are different than before. Still, the main thing is that it's the first model year. Getting across that it actually isn't that new might take a little while.

But everything else says its good so they'll probably get over it.

[CALL_911]

Driving a modern diesel powered car doesn't change the math behind it. A higher purchase price, a higher cost of diesel fuel, and the urea injections (in the case of the Q5) make diesel not a financially wise decision. If the thing is not as quick or powerful as the gas counterpart (3.0T), and it doesn't present a sizable cost savings, why the fuck would anyone in their right mind buy one?

I'll admit, the smell isn't a factor, but it's one more feather in the "diesels suck" hat.

I don't dislike diesels, but they're more often than not pretty impractical in the US.

Also, how many ES's and IS's have you driven?

[AltinD]

If the A4 corners "dangerously" then my Yaris must feel like a fucking pendulum in the curves, and it is nowhere near "dangerous".

Your Yaris feels like a pendulum even in a straight line with a bit of lateral wind, or simply when changing lanes .... well, so it seamed to me when I rented one once

[cawimmer430]

What America needs is an Audi SQ5 TDI with 313-horsepower. Faster and more economical than a Ford Excursion!!!

[12,000 RPM]

Why is everyone suggesting... no... PROJECTING the 3.0T on BENZMOM? If $$$ is really the issue the 2.0T will more than hold its own and costs less than either.

The urea injections are not that big a deal either. Seven gallons every 10,000 miles at $7.50 a gallon. If BENZMOM has this thing for 5 years at 15,000 that's a whopping $80/yr. TDI gets slightly better mileage than the 2.0T (24/31 vs 20/28), the hybrid (24/31 vs 24/30), and significantly better than the 3.0T (18/26). BENZMOM would save $500/yr with the diesel over the 3.0T... and I'm betting the diesel's base price includes more equiment as they want to load them up to help the profitability offset the lower volume. I dont see the problem with the diesel. Our next mainstreamer will be a pre-urea diesel VW.

[hotrodalex]

Again, going off of my mom here - I'd get the 2.0T and be done with it.

And Soup - I love the smell of gas.

[MX793]

What America needs is an Audi SQ5 TDI with 313-horsepower. Faster and more economical than a Ford Excursion!!!

They stopped making the Excursion like 8 or 9 years ago.

[CALL_911]

Why is everyone suggesting... no... PROJECTING the 3.0T on BENZMOM? If $$$ is really the issue the 2.0T will more than hold its own and costs less than either.

The urea injections are not that big a deal either. Seven gallons every 10,000 miles at $7.50 a gallon. If BENZMOM has this thing for 5 years at 15,000 that's a whopping $80/yr. TDI gets slightly better mileage than the 2.0T (24/31 vs 20/28), the hybrid (24/31 vs 24/30), and significantly better than the 3.0T (18/26). BENZMOM would save $500/yr with the diesel over the 3.0T... and I'm betting the diesel's base price includes more equiment as they want to load them up to help the profitability offset the lower volume. I dont see the problem with the diesel. Our next mainstreamer will be a pre-urea diesel VW.

Fair point, but the thread explicitly asked "TDI vs. 3.0T."

Regardless, you're right. The 2.0T would do just fine. But again, if she likes the 3.0T, she likes the 3.0T. Coming from a Suburban, maybe she appreciates the V6's extra grunt.

[BENZ BOY15]

Again, going off of my mom here - I'd get the 2.0T and be done with it.

And Soup - I love the smell of gas.

Probably but why not lobby for the larger engine?  I just don't know about a 4cyl in a car like that.

The 6cyl is a great engine....nice acceleration. When my dad gets back from work they're going to go check it out again. And I will go to guide them.

[BENZ BOY15]

Here's my other question: what engine/option combinations are the best for resale?

[hotrodalex]

Gas

[Cookie Monster]

Here's my other question: what engine/option combinations are the best for resale?

Does it matter? Don't your parents keep their vehicles for a while?

[MX793]

Gas

Depends on where you live.  In NY, where state emissions effectively banned the sale (and even registration) of diesel passenger cars through much of the early '00s, used diesel cars hold their value very well.  California had a similar ban.

[Laconian]

Why is everyone suggesting... no... PROJECTING the 3.0T on BENZMOM? If $$$ is really the issue the 2.0T will more than hold its own and costs less than either.

The urea injections are not that big a deal either. Seven gallons every 10,000 miles at $7.50 a gallon. If BENZMOM has this thing for 5 years at 15,000 that's a whopping $80/yr. TDI gets slightly better mileage than the 2.0T (24/31 vs 20/28), the hybrid (24/31 vs 24/30), and significantly better than the 3.0T (18/26). BENZMOM would save $500/yr with the diesel over the 3.0T... and I'm betting the diesel's base price includes more equiment as they want to load them up to help the profitability offset the lower volume. I dont see the problem with the diesel. Our next mainstreamer will be a pre-urea diesel VW.

Who's the one projecting the 3.0T onto his mom? I think it's Benz that's doing that. Parents get fancy car, vicariously bask in the social status boost, etc...

[BENZ BOY15]

It's not my car but a 4cyl seems kinda slow but she's going to check it out. 6cyl is just faster. The only difference is a 3.0 badge. Not many people care let alone know what that means.

It's her choice and she'll drive the 4cyl, don't worry. It's not that much of a bit difference anyway.

[Laconian]

It's not my car but a 4cyl seems kinda slow but she's going to check it out. 6cyl is just faster.

That turbocharger is good for something, y'know...

[CALL_911]

Who's the one projecting the 3.0T onto his mom? I think it's Benz that's doing that. Parents get fancy car, vicariously bask in the social status boost, etc...

That was why my dad had to buy the 535i instead of the 528i. He once showed up to work in a loaner 328i and they asked him not to park in the doctor's lot.