BMW i3 Electric U.S. Pricing Announced

[NomisR]

I do wonder if it is the right vehicle for you then. It has only been recently that BMW started referring to the gasser as a range extender. At least in Germany up until the release they kept saying that it is more of a emergency power generator for unexpected situations. I think they did not design the thing to be used on a daily basis. Basically I suspect that this modified scooter engine will not be very refined. Plus you are adding 300lbs to a 2600lbs vehicle.

Well, I can make it without an extender but my commute is about 78miles a day in the middle of traffic.  Having the EV would allow the use of a HOV lane which may help cut some commute time so it'll be welcomed.  And cut my fuel cost in half by charging up at home.  Just those 2 items would be nice to have.  Or I might simply end up with a diesel vehicle instead. 

[12,000 RPM]

Well, when you look at a 135 starting at $40k and then when you add a couple equipment it goes up into the mid $40k..   I guess it depends on your POV in the matter...

It's a bargain compared to the 3 series if all you want is a fast coupe.

I would say a more accurate description is that very few people exploit the BMWs capabilities, however they want to read in XYZ magazine that the thing can all sorts of neat tricks. And to do that the cars need to perform as expected. Granted the 1 Series switching to FWD is a bad sign, but perhaps BMW thinks that with the 1er the packaging problems that RWD brings with it are simply to large to avoid.

Like I wrote earlier I am curious about this. It is noteworthy, imo, that BMW is making an effort to point out the balance, and RWD. They even said that the if one is interested in dynamics one should avoid the range extender since it screws up the balance.  That indicates to me that they did pay attention to the dynamics. But we shall see.

I mean, the F10, F30 and F01 have all been panned for their dynamics in the press, and people still buy them. I think the era of the "ultimate driving machine" being true for every Bimmer ended years ago. That doesn't make them bad cars, but folks def have to stop touting BMW dynamic dominance as a given. Bimmers are good cars that are well made and luxurious... but when the M5 places third to a Benz and Audi in a comparo I think it's def fair to call their dynamic credibility into question.

I think the i3 will be a good car and is the start of something important, but I don't think it's realistic to look at it as the car that will bring dynamics to the EV realm. I mean... look at it lol.

[NomisR]

It's a bargain compared to the 3 series if all you want is a fast coupe.
I mean, the F10, F30 and F01 have all been panned for their dynamics in the press, and people still buy them. I think the era of the "ultimate driving machine" being true for every Bimmer ended years ago. That doesn't make them bad cars, but folks def have to stop touting BMW dynamic dominance as a given. Bimmers are good cars that are well made and luxurious... but when the M5 places third to a Benz and Audi in a comparo I think it's def fair to call their dynamic credibility into question.

I think the i3 will be a good car and is the start of something important, but I don't think it's realistic to look at it as the car that will bring dynamics to the EV realm. I mean... look at it lol.

It's really different POV on the matter then, i'm more thinking it's expensive since the 3 series is only a little more than the 1 series but you get more with the 3.  Glass half full or half empty..

[NomisR]

I do wonder if it is the right vehicle for you then. It has only been recently that BMW started referring to the gasser as a range extender. At least in Germany up until the release they kept saying that it is more of a emergency power generator for unexpected situations. I think they did not design the thing to be used on a daily basis. Basically I suspect that this modified scooter engine will not be very refined. Plus you are adding 300lbs to a 2600lbs vehicle.

Just read this and this seems like a valid point

http://jalopnik.com/what-bmws-i3-tells-us-about-batteries-and-how-they-sti-1068442336

The article points out that if you look at the i3's design, it was initally designed with the gas motor as a range extender in mind from the start, and the pure-electric version came afterwards.P

You can see that clearly here — at the rear of the car, the 660cc gas motor sits right next to the electric motor, and on the pure electric there's just an empty hole with a support brace. If the car was designed as a pure electric from the get-go, that space wouldn't have been wasted, it'd be used for batteries or cargo or whatever. P

[Laconian]

Maybe the i3 was built with moonshine runners in mind?

[Galaxy]

Just read this and this seems like a valid point

http://jalopnik.com/what-bmws-i3-tells-us-about-batteries-and-how-they-sti-1068442336

Touché that ICE engine does seem relatively compact.

[r0tor]

I would get one if I could trade it for an X5 whenever I wanted...

[S204STi]

This layout for the drivetrain makes more sense to me than the series-hybrid design.  Look at locomotives; they use an engine to power a generator which powers electric motors to motivate the train.  The proof of concept has always existed, it just seems that the tech to miniaturize it to work in a car took a while.  Now, if only this 600cc range extender were Diesel, now we'd be talking about some serious range.

[DavidDunn]

This is going to be such a great car when it comes out

[Raza]

This is going to be such a great car when it comes out

Welcome to the forums! 

[NomisR]

This layout for the drivetrain makes more sense to me than the series-hybrid design.  Look at locomotives; they use an engine to power a generator which powers electric motors to motivate the train.  The proof of concept has always existed, it just seems that the tech to miniaturize it to work in a car took a while.  Now, if only this 600cc range extender were Diesel, now we'd be talking about some serious range.

I think the main consideration with the range extender was weight vs range.  They're probably looking to add another 100 mile of range w/o adding significant weight.  Based on the article, doubling the range with batteries would add another 230kg in weight whereas the gas range extender would add about 120kg in weight. 

So I think with the same line of thinking, diesel engine while providing better fuel economy would likely add a greater weight to this.

I think if they can do it properly, I wonder how well a rotary engine would do as a generator.

[ChrisV]

This layout for the drivetrain makes more sense to me than the series-hybrid design.  Look at locomotives; they use an engine to power a generator which powers electric motors to motivate the train.  The proof of concept has always existed, it just seems that the tech to miniaturize it to work in a car took a while.  Now, if only this 600cc range extender were Diesel, now we'd be talking about some serious range.

The locomotives tend to run the diesel generator all the time, at a single rpm. The range extender in the cars with them (Volt, i3) tends to run the generator only when needed and thus there's a lot of start/stop action, in order to reduce how much fuel is used and be more efficient, and often the engine doesn't run at all, as the car has enough battery reserve to run on. A diesel adds cost, and doesn't like start/stop action (especially if there's a significant time period between starting and stopping) and actually pollutes more every time it starts back up, so it's more costly to control. Running the diesel all the time is less efficient than just using the diesel to power the car directly, which is why there are few diesel electric hybrid cars.

[MexicoCityM3]

The locomotives tend to run the diesel generator all the time, at a single rpm. The range extender in the cars with them (Volt, i3) tends to run the generator only when needed and thus there's a lot of start/stop action, in order to reduce how much fuel is used and be more efficient, and often the engine doesn't run at all, as the car has enough battery reserve to run on. A diesel adds cost, and doesn't like start/stop action (especially if there's a significant time period between starting and stopping) and actually pollutes more every time it starts back up, so it's more costly to control. Running the diesel all the time is less efficient than just using the diesel to power the car directly, which is why there are few diesel electric hybrid cars.

Great explanation. I had wondered about this and had no idea.

[S204STi]

The locomotives tend to run the diesel generator all the time, at a single rpm. The range extender in the cars with them (Volt, i3) tends to run the generator only when needed and thus there's a lot of start/stop action, in order to reduce how much fuel is used and be more efficient, and often the engine doesn't run at all, as the car has enough battery reserve to run on. A diesel adds cost, and doesn't like start/stop action (especially if there's a significant time period between starting and stopping) and actually pollutes more every time it starts back up, so it's more costly to control. Running the diesel all the time is less efficient than just using the diesel to power the car directly, which is why there are few diesel electric hybrid cars.

Makes sense.

[12,000 RPM]

The locomotives tend to run the diesel generator all the time, at a single rpm. The range extender in the cars with them (Volt, i3) tends to run the generator only when needed and thus there's a lot of start/stop action, in order to reduce how much fuel is used and be more efficient, and often the engine doesn't run at all, as the car has enough battery reserve to run on. A diesel adds cost, and doesn't like start/stop action (especially if there's a significant time period between starting and stopping) and actually pollutes more every time it starts back up, so it's more costly to control. Running the diesel all the time is less efficient than just using the diesel to power the car directly, which is why there are few diesel electric hybrid cars.

Interesting stuff.

[Galaxy]

Just read this and this seems like a valid point

http://jalopnik.com/what-bmws-i3-tells-us-about-batteries-and-how-they-sti-1068442336

However, as I just found out, the ICE takes up the place where the heat pump would normally go. Granted if you have the Rex you would probably not care that the heat pump will give you a few extra km of range. However without the heat pump you will not be able to pre heat the cabin, and the battery pack. That could make a huge difference in battery range, and also battery longetivity. I guess in California it is less of an issue.

[Galaxy]

Road&Track ripped the i3 apart.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/road-tests/performance-tests-road-tests-bmw-i3-65-3-roa1013

[cawimmer430]

Spotted one today on my street. Extremely nasty car...

[NomisR]

So is it smaller than the 1 series? 

[MexicoCityM3]

So is it smaller than the 1 series? 

I don't know about exterior dimensions, but it is definitely roomier inside.

[NomisR]

I don't know about exterior dimensions, but it is definitely roomier inside.

Do you know how it would compare with a Mini Cooper Countryman?

[Galaxy]

One thing they got right, there is almost no e-engine whine from the i3. only when you really floor it I guess.

IAA 2013: Svezli jsme se BMW i3

[Galaxy]

Drag race M3 vs. i3. 

http://www.businesscarmanager.co.uk/bmw-i3-v-bmw-m3-drag-race/

Hmmm the i3 is not to shabby 0-~30mph or so.  All that low end torque I guess.