What Should Wizard Drive?

[2o6]

I'm not sure how pricing is where you're at, but just from the dealer I work at (and we're overpriced)

http://www.marhofer.com/details.cfm?searchvkid=1464774&cftoken=c06cf1646933d2e8-0F309C92-91A9-0FCD-B3DFAAD50A681259&cfid=89631207

http://www.marhofer.com/details.cfm?searchvkid=1495105&cftoken=c06cf1646933d2e8-0F309C92-91A9-0FCD-B3DFAAD50A681259&cfid=89631207


Also, try the Saturn Aura. It's IMO the best out of the GM Epsilon I cars. Wayy nicer inside than the Malibu, and has a nicer heavier weight about the steering.

[thewizard16]

Jetta V, Passat.



I don't like the Lacrosse; it feels old-school. The tried-and-true 3.8L is good enough, I guess. The 3.6L likes stretching timing chains.


Nissans don't age well, and I hear the G has the potential to be a shitshow.


Anything that isn't a current generation Hyundai (and even then, IDK) IMO feels like trash. Especially used. I don't like the Azera. Feels really cheap inside and out.

Taurus is really nice, but do not expect it to be a good handler. The Five Hundred is also nice. (Stay away from the CVT)

Camry feels like trash inside.

MKZ is a laughable attempt at a luxury car. It's a Fusion, but only a little bit quieter, and with a hideous interior and like a few more soft touch plastics (that look like shit)



Shot in the Dark

Chrysler 300

VW Jetta V (IMO it feels as nice as the cars you're looking at - steering and handling are tight and the interior is well put together. 2.5L isn't great, but it'll get the job done)

That's too bad about the MKZ. The Fusion is an "okay" car all around. I didn't love it, didn't hate it. It was nice I suppose, but never really felt nice to me. The loaded out Impala rental felt nicer than the Fusion, and it really shouldn't have. I am so ambivalent towards the Fusion that it's almost a mark in its favor because I don't find it interesting enough to find anything about it objectionable.

I'd be surprised if 300s are in my range, but I don't really like them any way. Not a bad idea though, it'd definitely hit all the criteria. I hadn't thought of the Aura at all (mostly because I forgot it ever existed) but I'll see if there are any in the range/areas I'm looking.

I haven't looked at the Jetta because it's a bit smaller than I think I want, but I'm eager to go test drive a Passat when I get back. It's not quite as fancy as the GS or some of the other options listed, but I could get a bit newer car and at least from pictures, they appear to be built well enough that they're holding up better than a lot of the other options.

Passat - Like the Jetta but bigger and nicer. Looked long and hard at one.

I'll let that one slide this time. 

[thewizard16]

I'm not sure how pricing is where you're at, but just from the dealer I work at (and we're overpriced)

http://www.marhofer.com/details.cfm?searchvkid=1464774&cftoken=c06cf1646933d2e8-0F309C92-91A9-0FCD-B3DFAAD50A681259&cfid=89631207

http://www.marhofer.com/details.cfm?searchvkid=1495105&cftoken=c06cf1646933d2e8-0F309C92-91A9-0FCD-B3DFAAD50A681259&cfid=89631207


Also, try the Saturn Aura. It's IMO the best out of the GM Epsilon I cars. Wayy nicer inside than the Malibu, and has a nicer heavier weight about the steering.

Pricing in Little Rock is pretty bad. The used car market here is apparently quite active and things sell for way more than they should. Hopefully that will work in my favor on the ES, but I doubt I'll buy anything local. I flew to Dallas to buy the ES and I'll certainly consider traveling again to buy the next car. Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, and Orlando/Miami are pretty good places to center searches because they're large markets, get little to no snow (I'm not going to touch anything with any sort of even simple surface rust this time around), and if you check Carfax reports and look things over really well in Houston and Miami, you can mostly avoid hurricane/flood cars. California might not be a bad option either, but I haven't looked into any searches in the LA/west coast area.

[ifcar]

The Jetta is smaller but nearly as roomy as that generation of Passat, and it doesn't have a stereotypical small-car feel to drive. It's at least worth a test-sit.

[Colin]

I am somewhat surprised to learn that you preferred a loaded Impala to a Fusion/Milan/MKZ ...... with the 3 litre engine, these things go well, steer well, are nicely finished inside, and reasonably roomy.

I did quite like the 500/Taurus/Montego/Sable cars, too. They are extremely roomy, partly because they are BIG, but again, they drive well and are well enough finished.

[Cookie Monster]

I would also say G. I knew a guy who had 208000 miles on his auto G sedan and he said it was great. I do hear the VQ's can have oil problems, but I'm not sure how common those are.

[MrH]

Another ES?  Guess I still don't understand dropping it, but it sounds like it suits your needs the best.

[Raza]

I haven't looked at the Jetta because it's a bit smaller than I think I want, but I'm eager to go test drive a Passat when I get back.

The Jetta V is surprisingly roomy for its size.  It does compare favorably to a lot of its smaller contemporary midsizers. 

[CJ]

My ES? Too boring. I need another car.

[MrH]

My ES? Too boring. I need another car.

Like a Volvo? #FeelTheExcitement!

[FlatBlackCaddy]

ES-F

oh my, a chill just ran down my back thinking of that.

[12,000 RPM]

ES-F

oh my, a chill just ran down my back thinking of that.

You might be on to something

The Bonneville SSEi of Lexuses

[2o6]

You might be on to something

The Bonneville SSEi of Lexuses

Twin Turbo V6....AWD.....

[Madman]

Okay Wiz, I've found your new car and it's this week's featured shed! 

http://www.carspin.net/index.php?topic=11546.1890

[12,000 RPM]

Twin Turbo V6....AWD.....

Naw just the Toyota 4.6 V8 absolutely torturing the front wheels

[r0tor]

Lexus IS?

[Raza]

Oh, since I was looking, Acura TSX.  Although I don't know how roomy they are.

[cawimmer430]

Okay Wiz, I've found your new car and it's this week's featured shed! 

http://www.carspin.net/index.php?topic=11546.1890

MEH! UNRELIABLE! 

[thewizard16]

Another ES?  Guess I still don't understand dropping it, but it sounds like it suits your needs the best.

Dicey electrical issues with the alternators that we can't fully diagnose, rust seized bolts on the bottom of the car, etc. I'm tired of the headache and hassle associated with chasing ghosts in this car that may or may not exist. It's a nice car and I like it overall, but my desire to keep it around has pretty much evaporated.

Oh, since I was looking, Acura TSX.  Although I don't know how roomy they are.

They're smallish, but also hard to find in the price range unless they have a ridiculous number of miles.

Lexus IS?

Small and expensive to insure for some reason, but I still considered them. I like them a lot, but think I'd prefer something a little roomier and a little less overdone on the styling inside.

[thewizard16]

Went to a few lots to explore some options this weekend.

Looked at: Maxima, G35, I35. Even the newer generation Maxima than the one I looked at last year still feel kinda cheap inside and don't seem to hold up terribly well. I don't care for it much. I35 I ruled out last year for general unlikability (didn't drive as well as the Maxima, only slightly nicer inside) and that still held. G35 is interesting, but the interiors seem pretty hit and miss on how they've held up and aren't quite as refined as some of the other options. I will likely test drive one soon, but I'm not sure I like the rest of it enough to consider it.

Drove:
GS300 (02): I liked it quite a bit. The interior is nice, slightly nicer than the ES, and I like the almost minimalist style of the dash. The instrument cluster isn't my favorite ever, but I don't dislike it. It's nice and roomy, it feels wider inside than the ES without feeling like a lot larger car overall. It certainly handles better than the ES and still rides very comfortably. The straight 6 has a few more horses than the ES V6 does, but more importantly I like how it sounds. It has a little more growl to it. Probably not faster overall, but it's at least as fast. I know it won't be super easy to find one I like in the price range, but there are options available and I definitely liked it enough to pursue it.

Avalon (04): Not quite as nice as the ES but damn close. Cushy and big, but I hate the Buick-esque dash and it is none too interested in going around corners quickly. It's a handsome car, but pretty geriatric looking. I won't be considering them.

Prius (05): This was a random test drive because it happened to be on the same lot as another car. The tech behind the drivetrain is cool but I dislike pretty much everything else about the car. Not surprisingly, I won't be considering it.

Passat (09): Turns out it's hard to find an 06-10 Passat to test drive in Little Rock. Three listings were phantoms that had already been shipped off to auction by the dealers, the fourth I found, and liked the look of and might have even considered, but instead got to watch a family buy it while I was waiting to test drive it if they didn't get it. Managed to find one that was a bit out of my price range nearby though and took a drive. It was a 2.0T Komfort model and I actually liked it quite a bit. The 4 cylinder is a lot peppier than I'd expected and although it's a few less ponies than the ES I don't think I'd notice it. It certainly handles better than the ES and feels like it could actually be almost fun in the curves. The interior is built well and although not quite as plush as the Lexus, I liked it and it looks like it holds up pretty well. Only concern with the interior is the finish on the buttons, it seems to peel off on some of them but not others and I'm not sure what's behind that. I will definitely be pursuing it.

So the ES listing will be going up shortly and as soon as it is gone I will be actively searching for GSes and Passats, most likely in Texas. If I can get a good group together in either Dallas or Houston I'll zip down on a weekend and get something. I'm not opposed to looking into other options, but I think I could be very happy with either the GS or the Passat and either option would certainly be more interesting than anything I've been driving the last 9 years.

[2o6]

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/ctd/3976431367.html

[2o6]

I also keep hearing that the 2.0 FSI has some carbon build up issues, and electrical issues abound on VW's generally. It's a nice car, but I feel like it could be much worse than the ES.

[thewizard16]

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/ctd/3976431367.html

Too much money, but interesting.

I also keep hearing that the 2.0 FSI has some carbon build up issues, and electrical issues abound on VW's generally. It's a nice car, but I feel like it could be much worse than the ES.

Hmm. Well, the ES has a history of oil sludge issues potentially and this one apparently has it's own electrical issues. You're right that it could be problematic, but so far the 06-10 generation seems to be pretty reliable overall from what I've read. The 05 and earlier had their share of issues so it's a concern, but not so much so that I don't want to consider it. The GS would probably be the safer choice reliability wise, but I could get a considerably newer Passat for the same price so I'm not sure how that balances out in the long run. I figure I'm rolling some dice either way.

[ifcar]

Obligatory reminder of why used Passats aren't too expensive:

[thewizard16]

Obligatory reminder of why used Passats aren't too expensive:

That doesn't look great. But it also has no real context. I don't understand how the engine minor and major categories go from the worst to the best rating in the 06-10 span when the engine itself didn't change in those years and there's no reason to assume the exact same engine somehow got magically more reliable. The inconsistencies in the ratings considering the car itself didn't significantly change between 2006-2010 don't make any sense to me, so I'm not sure what to take from that chart other than it might be bad... or it might not. I'm a little concerned about the Passat's reputation for reliability, but without an idea of what kinds of problems they frequently have I'm not sure what to make of that reputation.

[ifcar]

That doesn't look great. But it also has no real context. I don't understand how the engine minor and major categories go from the worst to the best rating in the 06-10 span when the engine itself didn't change in those years and there's no reason to assume the exact same engine somehow got magically more reliable. The inconsistencies in the ratings considering the car itself didn't significantly change between 2006-2010 don't make any sense to me, so I'm not sure what to take from that chart other than it might be bad... or it might not. I'm a little concerned about the Passat's reputation for reliability, but without an idea of what kinds of problems they frequently have I'm not sure what to make of that reputation.

It could be problems being ironed out after the first year or two of production, or it could be aging more poorly than other cars, or statistical anomalies, or a mix of the three. The CR data are never a certainty, but they're not pointing to a great place.

[Raza]

My friend has an 08 Passat and it's been really great to him.  And it's so comfortable without driving like a boat. 

[thewizard16]

It could be problems being ironed out after the first year or two of production, or it could be aging more poorly than other cars, or statistical anomalies, or a mix of the three. The CR data are never a certainty, but they're not pointing to a great place.

Indeed. The reliability ratings from Identifix are very good (I like their ratings because they outline specific problems reported by the service shops) except for the 06, which they say has occasional fuel pump and intake manifold issues which are $$$. The peeling finishes on buttons that people are complaining about is a legitimate problem, I've seen a number of used listings with that problem, but it's hit and miss so I don't know if it's just a sign of poor quality control and a lot of them are poorly done or if it's a matter of time before they all do that. The mechanical and electrical issues are the biggest things I want to look out for. Mechanical because of the cost of repair and electrical because those problems will drive you crazy... At any rate, it's a concern so I'll have to pick carefully if I end up going that route.

My friend has an 08 Passat and it's been really great to him.  And it's so comfortable without driving like a boat. 

The Passat isn't as comfortable as the ES, or the GS, but it's a bit cheaper car than either (well, especially the GS) and they definitely spent more of their design dollars on the suspension and engine than on making the interior plush. It's nice enough I could be happy with it though and I did enjoy how it drove. I certainly plan on looking at both GSes and Passats if I can find them in the same place, a decision will probably be based off what the nicest option available in the used market then is because I don't have a strong preference either way right now. Or there's an outside chance I'll find something else intriguing and get neither, but I think these are good options based off what I'm looking for. (After I get rid of the ES anyway.)

[Madman]

The flaws in CR's methodology are well documented.

A self-selected survey in which there have been known instances of people classifying a burnt out light bulb or a squeaking door hinge as a "major failure" will always produce inconsistent results.

Garbage in = garbage out.

[Soup DeVille]

The flaws in CR's methodology are well documented.

A self-selected survey in which there have been known instances of people classifying a burnt out light bulb or a squeaking door hinge as a "major failure" will always produce inconsistent results.

Garbage in = garbage out.

True, yet it never kept legions of Toyota loyalists from being up their ratings for years, did it?