What Should Wizard Drive?

[Madman]

True, yet it never kept legions of Toyota loyalists from being up their ratings for years, did it?

It cuts both ways.  I've always noticed when owners of Japanese cars have a problem, they excuse it.  But when owners of American (and some European) cars have a problem, they say "Oh, how typical!"  The truth is the differences in today's cars from ALL manufacturers are so small, they fall within the statistical margin of error.  Reliability has become so ubiquitous that you really can't buy a "bad" car, anymore.  Even the cheapest modern shitbox with start every morning and not leave you stranded,  That's something you couldn't say thirty years ago.

[Soup DeVille]

It cuts both ways.  I've always noticed when owners of Japanese cars have a problem, they excuse it.  But when owners of American (and some European) cars have a problem, they say "Oh, how typical!"  The truth is the differences in today's cars from ALL manufacturers are so small, they fall within the statistical margin of error.  Reliability has become so ubiquitous that you really can't buy a "bad" car, anymore.  Even the cheapest modern shitbox with start every morning and not leave you stranded,  That's something you couldn't say thirty years ago.

All true, for the most part. Excepting Fiskers setting themselves alight.

[12,000 RPM]

That doesn't look great. But it also has no real context. I don't understand how the engine minor and major categories go from the worst to the best rating in the 06-10 span when the engine itself didn't change in those years and there's no reason to assume the exact same engine somehow got magically more reliable. The inconsistencies in the ratings considering the car itself didn't significantly change between 2006-2010 don't make any sense to me, so I'm not sure what to take from that chart other than it might be bad... or it might not. I'm a little concerned about the Passat's reputation for reliability, but without an idea of what kinds of problems they frequently have I'm not sure what to make of that reputation.

I was looking at B6 Passat 2.0T wagons for wifey's first car. The 06-08s only have direct injection and have carbon buildup problems. The TFSIs in the 09 and ups, if I recall correctly, have port and direct injection, cleaning off the valves and eliminating the carbon build up problem. I still want one, but if I get one I will either have to get an 07-08 with an extra cylinder head to clean and swap out every ~100K miles (along with a modified PCV/EGR system to minimize oil recirculation), or just pony up and get an '09+ and hope it doesn't have any deep design flaws. Seriously, google "FSI carbon buildup".... you will see shit like this:



Here's what intake valves are supposed to look like:



The cars are beautiful and drive great when everything is in order... but VWAG dropped the ball on their jump to direct injection. I wonder why diesel engines don't have these problems.... the difference is probably what they missed.

[12,000 RPM]

It cuts both ways.  I've always noticed when owners of Japanese cars have a problem, they excuse it.  But when owners of American (and some European) cars have a problem, they say "Oh, how typical!"  The truth is the differences in today's cars from ALL manufacturers are so small, they fall within the statistical margin of error.  Reliability has become so ubiquitous that you really can't buy a "bad" car, anymore.  Even the cheapest modern shitbox with start every morning and not leave you stranded,  That's something you couldn't say thirty years ago.

I wouldn't go that far. There's a reason luxury car residuals drop off a cliff once the warranties run out. And as I just showed some companies have serious design flaws to this day.

[hotrodalex]

Just need to do a lot of Italian tune ups to clean off the ports.

[CJ]

My buddy's S63 isn't the best example, but hear me out...

Every time he takes it to the dealership, it's essentially $2,000 to fix something. It still is under the CPO warranty, and he will be extending that. This is why luxury cars lose their value so fast.

[GoCougs]

The flaws in CR's methodology are well documented.

A self-selected survey in which there have been known instances of people classifying a burnt out light bulb or a squeaking door hinge as a "major failure" will always produce inconsistent results.

Garbage in = garbage out.

No.

First, per ifcar's post, there is no "major failure" category.

Second, survey respondents don't get to classify the nature of the error. They report a supposed problem and CR decides how it is classified.

Third, most people would not report a burned out bulb as a "problem" unless it happens repeatedly as in the GM GMT800 trucks' notorious DRLs.

Fourth, CR employs statisticians such there is a fairly high degree of certainty that their methods reflect reality.

[Raza]

No.

First, per ifcar's post, there is no "major failure" category.

Second, survey respondents don't get to classify the nature of the error. They report a supposed problem and CR decides how it is classified.

Third, most people would not report a burned out bulb as a "problem" unless it happens repeatedly as in the GM GMT800 trucks' notorious DRLs.

Fourth, CR employs statisticians such there is a fairly high degree of certainty that their methods reflect reality.

The reality of their sample, at least. 

[GoCougs]

The reality of their sample, at least. 

As all statistics are - it is logically impossible to have the reality of a (statistical) population.

[Raza]

As all statistics are - it is logically impossible to have the reality of a (statistical) population.

Well, some samples are more valid than others.  I'm not saying CR is worthless, just that it's not gospel, as many people take it.

[12,000 RPM]

Well, some samples are more valid than others.  I'm not saying CR is worthless, just that it's not gospel, as many people take it.

I would take CR's word over the anecdotes of anyone here but our resident mechanics. If CR is so bad, what is a more reliable source for a car's long term reliability? Only thing I can think of is True Delta, IIRC, and their more nuanced findings (i.e. actual descriptions of issues prompting dealer trips) don't differ much at all from CR. I.e. VWs are still flaky and Toyotas are still problem free.

[Raza]

I would take CR's word over the anecdotes of anyone here but our resident mechanics. If CR is so bad, what is a more reliable source for a car's long term reliability? Only thing I can think of is True Delta, IIRC, and their more nuanced findings (i.e. actual descriptions of issues prompting dealer trips) don't differ much at all from CR. I.e. VWs are still flaky and Toyotas are still problem free.

I just said it wasn't bad. 

[thewizard16]

The ES sold today.    The replacement search begins with intensity tonight. Depending on what I find and where I find it, I may be going car shopping this weekend.

[hotrodalex]

Rockin' a rental until then?

[thewizard16]

Rockin' a rental until then?

I live practically across the street from the med center and there's a Walgreens, Kroger, liquor store, and lots of fast food/casual dining within a 10 minute walk of my house so I'm going to hold off on a rental for now. It's rather convenient to be able to go without a car if necessary, but it does make running major errands or going to the gym a pain in the ass.

[thewizard16]

This time the car search will be more of a sprint than a marathon... I'm heading to Dallas Friday morning, got my rental car lined up, have a hotel booked for Friday night and am nearly ready to attack the city looking for a car. I've got listings for GSes and Passats as well as a smattering of Acura TLs and TSXes, Mazda 6s, and even despite my dislike for the interior in pictures, a couple G35s. Other things may very well be added in the next 24 hours before I leave, so it should be an interesting, and likely very hectic, trip. Hopefully I find something I like and come home with a new (to me) toy.