Next gen Titan to offer Cummins V8

[SVT666]

Cougs is one of those, "I see diesel trucks not pulling anything every single day on my commute" kind of guys.  Of all the people I know with big diesel trucks, almost all of them tow 5th wheels on holidays or use them for pulling big heavy trailers in construction.  Now, if we're talking about half tons, most of the people I know with them don't use them as intended...but so what?  It's not ego, it's that they prefer to be high up and they like having the utility available if they ever need it.  Personally, I use a utility trailer for hauling stuff, but the problem I almost always run into is I can never get parking at the lumber yard with a trailer.

[S204STi]

The Cummins is a bit of a brute but runs smooth at load, moves at a healthy pace, and rarely fails. As a workhorse it sets the standard imo. It will be interesting to see how/if the company follows that approach with a V8.

Totally.

[Soup DeVille]

Do you "look down on" the Yaris owner?

Only when I'm driving the duece and a half. Otherwise, I wouldn't see him at all.

[AutobahnSHO]

Not really interested in a Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy debate . 

As has been proven in many tests (and my anecdotal experience) diesel's towing performance advantage only surfaces when loads get really heavy, which most people do not tow.

Ha go drive for a while and compare fuel bills. There is a reason (OR SEVERAL) that semi trucks which run on gasoline are RARE.... ;-)

[AutobahnSHO]

Oh and it didn't just apply to heavy loads. VW tdi vs. Gasoline...

[Mustangfan2003]

Ha go drive for a while and compare fuel bills. There is a reason (OR SEVERAL) that semi trucks which run on gasoline are RARE.... ;-)

You can still get medium duty Ford with the V10, but now I bet most of those run on natural gas.  You can also get an RV with the V10.  Other than that there is no more gas options that I know of since GM quit making the 8.1.  Speaking of RVs I can see this Cummins taking the place of the V10 in some RVs. 

[GoCougs]

Ha go drive for a while and compare fuel bills. There is a reason (OR SEVERAL) that semi trucks which run on gasoline are RARE.... ;-)

Um, I stated "towing performance." And even when MPG is concerned, there has to be a whole lot of towing to make up for the ~$7k upcharge and additional maintenance for the diesel engine. Use it as a commercial rig and sure it pays off but it doesn't for most owners (i.e., most are not commercial and/or don't use it as a commercial owner would).

[S204STi]

Care to share which gasoline truck engines can tow as well as its diesel counterpart?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Care to share which gasoline truck engines can tow as well as its diesel counterpart?

Do you want REAL examples? or would imaginary ones do?

[GoCougs]

I see you guys haven't done a whole lot of towing with modern gas and diesel power trains. See which rig tows a ~4,000 lb speed boat quicker/easier - the GM 6.2L gasser half-ton or the GM 6.6L diesel 3/4-ton (did it with a friend 3 weeks ago, moving a boat around using his truck (gasser) and his dad's (diesel)). The gasser walked the diesel with a lighter load.

Check out this pulling test. This is an older test (2008) using the Ford 362 hp V10 gasser 3/4-ton and 350 hp 6.4L diesel 1-ton and the GM 353 hp 6.0L gasser 3/4-ton and 365 hp 6.6L diesel 1-ton. (They included Dodge but as I think most here know the Hemi power train struggles in trucks and true to form it did lousy in this test.) All towing is done with a 10,500 lb trailer. The 1-ton trucks are duallies so they carry a bit more weight than the 3/4-tons. All testing was acceleration up a grade (i.e., no holding speed on a grade).

7% grade with 10,500 lbs is moderately heavy towing (note that in general interstates have a limit of 6% grade). The diesel has an advantage but only but only by slim margin:






15% grade with 10,500 lbs is very heavy towing (15% grade is virtually non existent in the real world). Note the diesels have a big advantage at the start but the gassers actually catch up (the Ford V10 actually pulls ahead; given enough time the GM would pull ahead too based on that curve).






As I stated, not until it's heavy towing does the diesel advantage assert itself. However, the vast majority of people don't do heavy towing with these trucks. With the new crop of gassers (425 hp GM 6.2L, 411 hp Ford 6.2L, 410 hp Dodge 6.1L) IMO the gassers will be even stronger, relatively speaking.

[AutobahnSHO]

And which cars with diesel engines get worse gas mileage than their counterparts?...

[AutobahnSHO]

What was the gas mileage in those tests?

[S204STi]

There are other advantages to using the diesel version, such as superior engine braking, superior transmissions, and so on.  That, and you're not burning through a shitload of gas.

[Soup DeVille]

I see you guys haven't done a whole lot of towing with modern gas and diesel power trains. See which rig tows a ~4,000 lb speed boat quicker/easier - the GM 6.2L gasser half-ton or the GM 6.6L diesel 3/4-ton (did it with a friend 3 weeks ago, moving a boat around using his truck (gasser) and his dad's (diesel)). The gasser walked the diesel with a lighter load.

Check out this pulling test. This is an older test (2008) using the Ford 362 hp V10 gasser 3/4-ton and 350 hp 6.4L diesel 1-ton and the GM 353 hp 6.0L gasser 3/4-ton and 365 hp 6.6L diesel 1-ton. (They included Dodge but as I think most here know the Hemi power train struggles in trucks and true to form it did lousy in this test.) All towing is done with a 10,500 lb trailer. The 1-ton trucks are duallies so they carry a bit more weight than the 3/4-tons. All testing was acceleration up a grade (i.e., no holding speed on a grade).

7% grade with 10,500 lbs is moderately heavy towing (note that in general interstates have a limit of 6% grade). The diesel has an advantage but only but only by slim margin:






15% grade with 10,500 lbs is very heavy towing (15% grade is virtually non existent in the real world). Note the diesels have a big advantage at the start but the gassers actually catch up (the Ford V10 actually pulls ahead; given enough time the GM would pull ahead too based on that curve).






As I stated, not until it's heavy towing does the diesel advantage assert itself. However, the vast majority of people don't do heavy towing with these trucks. With the new crop of gassers (425 hp GM 6.2L, 411 hp Ford 6.2L, 410 hp Dodge 6.1L) IMO the gassers will be even stronger, relatively speaking.

Yeah, I've got to bow to your superior experience here. You helped a friend haul a boat in his dad's truck,

[SVT666]

I have been hauling and towing heavy loads my entire life and I've only used a diesel once.  Where it matters (low end grunt and fuel economy), the diesel is best.  I just hate the sound and smell of diesels and that's why I will likely never own one.

[GoCougs]

Yeah, I've got to bow to your superior experience here. You helped a friend haul a boat in his dad's truck,

You're welcome. Next time, it is hoped it will be easier.

[GoCougs]

There are other advantages to using the diesel version, such as superior engine braking, superior transmissions, and so on.  That, and you're not burning through a shitload of gas.

True, but I wasn't talking about any of that, and with lighter loads those advantages don't mean much of anything, and you gotta tow a heckuva lot of miles to offset a ~$7k price premium.

[Mustangfan2003]

Some of the rednecks seem outraged on the Cummins facebook page.  How dare they put an engine in a foreign truck.  I guess they should stop doing business with Freightliner since they are owned by Daimler. 

[Secret Chimp]

Dis is the only kin' a truck that should get a Cummins

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3993283572.html

[Rupert]

In my (considerable) western experience, people buy 3/4 ton and larger trucks for commercial and work use, for recreational use, and for little dick use (I mean, obviously, right?). Of those three, only commercial and work use doesn't correlate with idiots, particularly with new or late model trucks. Little dick use is pretty obviously idiotic.

Some recreational "valid" (i.e. can't do it with a Camry) uses for these huge trucks would be offroading, towing a camp trailer, towing a boat, dragging ATVs, and towing a horse trailer. Of those, only towing a horse trailer doesn't correlate with idiots. Offroading is better done with a much smaller vehicle, so people who use huge trucks are idiots. Towing a camp trailer is probably about 50/50 idiots to non-idiots, but if the thing is really big enough to require a 3/4 ton truck, most of the time they're going 45 on a flat straight 65 two-lane highway, and are therefore mega-idiots. Boat towing is about the same as camp trailer towing. No one needs a 3/4 ton truck to transport ATVs, but even if they did, most ATVers are idiots already, so the huge unnecessary truck is just icing on the cake.

My argument is that trucks are utilitarian, so it's dumb to have a truck with vastly greater utility than you ever need, and no one needs 30' camp trailers. To address the comparison to unnecessary sports cars, I have two arguments. One, they aren't supposed to be utilitarian, and for many of them, their potential can be more or less realized while driving around a city, and two, in my experience, most sports car drivers are idiots, anyway (present company excluded, of course).

Which is not to say that huge trucks cause idiocy, just that the two often occur together. All IMO, of course.

[TBR]

In my (considerable) western experience, people buy 3/4 ton and larger trucks for commercial and work use, for recreational use, and for little dick use (I mean, obviously, right?). Of those three, only commercial and work use doesn't correlate with idiots, particularly with new or late model trucks. Little dick use is pretty obviously idiotic.

Some recreational "valid" (i.e. can't do it with a Camry) uses for these huge trucks would be offroading, towing a camp trailer, towing a boat, dragging ATVs, and towing a horse trailer. Of those, only towing a horse trailer doesn't correlate with idiots. Offroading is better done with a much smaller vehicle, so people who use huge trucks are idiots. Towing a camp trailer is probably about 50/50 idiots to non-idiots, but if the thing is really big enough to require a 3/4 ton truck, most of the time they're going 45 on a flat straight 65 two-lane highway, and are therefore mega-idiots. Boat towing is about the same as camp trailer towing. No one needs a 3/4 ton truck to transport ATVs, but even if they did, most ATVers are idiots already, so the huge unnecessary truck is just icing on the cake.

My argument is that trucks are utilitarian, so it's dumb to have a truck with vastly greater utility than you ever need, and no one needs 30' camp trailers. To address the comparison to unnecessary sports cars, I have two arguments. One, they aren't supposed to be utilitarian, and for many of them, their potential can be more or less realized while driving around a city, and two, in my experience, most sports car drivers are idiots, anyway (present company excluded, of course).

Which is not to say that huge trucks cause idiocy, just that the two often occur together. All IMO, of course.

You sure about that?

[GoCougs]

I lol till the cows come home with the prototypical lifted + big tire'd 3/4-ton diesel battle wagon. Not only is it a horrible off road/trail rig (far too big and heavy - they're only good for open mud pits or deep snow, which doesn't exist around here), it's probably not properly upgraded in other ways (lower gears, stronger axles, beefier AT cooling, upgraded AT bands and clutch packs, etc.) and the off road spots around here were long closed down.

I did just build me a pretty sweet 2014 Sierra extended cab though. With the 425 hp 6.2L coming this fall, that's a pretty sweet and capable ride. For its towing limit (8,000 lbs?) and under it's gonna be a better two rig than a 3/4-ton diesel - it'll be quicker, it'll be smaller/easier to maneuver, it'll be cheaper to buy, and probably cheaper to fuel (vs. ROI of the diesel $$$ premium).

[Soup DeVille]

Although I'm still disagreeing here with a lot of what Cougs is saying: I do have to admit that some people do buy the biggest, most powerful truck they can just because they're douchenozzles.

Such as the guy who's selling this:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/power_wagon/1568534.html

[GoCougs]

Although I'm still disagreeing here with a lot of what Cougs is saying: I do have to admit that some people do buy the biggest, most powerful truck they can just because they're douchenozzles.

Such as the guy who's selling this:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/power_wagon/1568534.html

I don't think that really qualifies. That's basically somebody's project. There's no off roading in that, no hauling around ATVs, motorbikes, or snowmobiles, or terrorizing lesser vehicles during the commute. It's basically for Sunday drives and car shows.

THIS is what I'm talking about. Countless of these sociopath machines on the road today:

[Laconian]

I hate those trucks so much. They're often seen teasing the limits of body roll as they go 50% faster than the traffic around them, independent of congestion levels.

[GoCougs]

Notice how it's almost always the trucks with the big tires and UPS-truck sounding exhaust? Plays into the bully/egocentric/insecurity archetype that tends to buy such a machine. The stock trucks are almost never the offenders.

[CJ]

The people who use the trucks stock typically drive them fairly respectfully.

[Rupert]

You sure about that?

Eh, it's a weaker correlation. Horse people tend to be pretty reasonable and level-headed.

[Rupert]

I lol till the cows come home with the prototypical lifted + big tire'd 3/4-ton diesel battle wagon. Not only is it a horrible off road/trail rig (far too big and heavy - they're only good for open mud pits or deep snow, which doesn't exist around here), it's probably not properly upgraded in other ways (lower gears, stronger axles, beefier AT cooling, upgraded AT bands and clutch packs, etc.) and the off road spots around here were long closed down.

I did just build me a pretty sweet 2014 Sierra extended cab though. With the 425 hp 6.2L coming this fall, that's a pretty sweet and capable ride. For its towing limit (8,000 lbs?) and under it's gonna be a better two rig than a 3/4-ton diesel - it'll be quicker, it'll be smaller/easier to maneuver, it'll be cheaper to buy, and probably cheaper to fuel (vs. ROI of the diesel $$$ premium).

Yup. I hate it when I have to drive one of our 3/4 ton crew cab monsters (or-- geesh-- the 1 ton crew cab long bed!) out into the woods. Just a pain in the ass. Give me the Grand Cherokee any day!

[Soup DeVille]

Eh, it's a weaker correlation. Horse people tend to be pretty reasonable and level-headed.

As opposed to RVers who tend to be sociopaths?