2014 Honda Civic Si Coupe & Civic Brethren Debut

[12,000 RPM]

They hyped the shit out of the last 2 too. Like I have been saying, call me when it's at dealerships. And in any case, 1 sports car doesn't mean shit in the context of a boring lineup. The existence of the GT-R doesn't make me want a Sentra, same with this NSX and the rest of the Hondas.

[MrH]

The last 2?  Sporty, that's the same car this entire time... There's a color configurator on their Facebook page for the car.  The styling surfaces are all frozen at this point.  That's what it's going to look like, and it's been that way for awhile.

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.  No one does.  My comment didn't have anything to do with the NSX.  I was just laughing because you hate what every car company is doing.  The old Sporty condemnation of a car company really loses its effect when you bitch and moan about all of them.

[12,000 RPM]

I'm not talking about this current iteration. There were two other NSX concepts in the past.

This one:



and this one:



both of which Honda was "very serious" about too.

And there are plenty of car companies I like/think are doing good things. I posted a list of them in a thread not too long ago.

[280Z Turbo]

Acura "confirmed" and canceled two other NSXs. You could "buy" the last NSX, but not register it on the road. I will believe it when I can go to an Acura dealership and at the minimum pick up a new NSX brochure, or see one in person w/the window sticker and all that.

Even outside of that though, are there any Hondas/Acuras you or Mr H would buy over the competition if you had to get something in the segments it competes in?

Honda was already sending out RFQs months ago.

[MrH]

I'm not talking about this current iteration. There were two other NSX concepts in the past.

This one:



and this one:



both of which Honda was "very serious" about too.

And there are plenty of car companies I like/think are doing good things. I posted a list of them in a thread not too long ago.

One was a concept and one was a race car.  Neither were meant for production. 

[MrH]

Honda was already sending out RFQs months ago.

Months ago?

More like a year+.

[Atomic]

Best Photos Are Often Those of the Fans... Like US and Our Cars of Choice at the Various Shows...





I Like These and Thank the Sender. Our Next Civic (Placing Order Soon) Will Indeed be a Coupe...

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I can't decide whether honda is stuck in the 90's or in the 00's. Maybe they are straddling both.

Either way, I can't wait to see what they come out with when the get back in the game.

[giant_mtb]

I've never really liked this Civic body style since it came out. Seems like forever ago.

[NomisR]

Who the hell thought this styling is a good idea.

[MX793]

I've never really liked this Civic body style since it came out. Seems like forever ago.

I still don't buy that the 2012 model was "all new".  It wasn't even convincing as a "significant facelift".

[cawimmer430]

Honda is still not serious about it's Si model yet again. 205hp?

I know! My 1987 Honda Lawnmower has more power than that.

[giant_mtb]

I still don't buy that the 2012 model was "all new".  It wasn't even convincing as a "significant facelift".

All new. hahahaha

[12,000 RPM]

I can't decide whether honda is stuck in the 90's or in the 00's. Maybe they are straddling both.

Either way, I can't wait to see what they come out with when the get back in the game.

They have regressed actually. Mechanically their cars were more complex in the 80s-90s (aside from the hybrids)

[FlatBlackCaddy]

They have regressed actually. Mechanically their cars were more complex in the 80s-90s (aside from the hybrids)

In what way, exactly. Seems they they are pretty much using the same stuff as they were back then(technology wise). They weren't exactly using anything real advanced back in the 90's that they don't have today.

Modern Honda's are basically 90's honda's with navigation.

[MX793]

They have regressed actually. Mechanically their cars were more complex in the 80s-90s (aside from the hybrids)

Not so sure about that.  They all have VTEC now, which is something no 80s Honda had.  It didn't find its way into their mainstream cars until the later 90s, and the VTEC now is more sophisticated than it was then (iVTEC is continuously variable timing vs stepped like original 90s VTEC).  Suspension design has gone lower tech, at least in the Civic.

The problem isn't so much the tech as it is the implementation.  The fun has sort of faded out of the brand as they've become progressively more conservative.

[12,000 RPM]

Not so sure about that.  They all have VTEC now, which is something no 80s Honda had.  It didn't find its way into their mainstream cars until the later 90s, and the VTEC now is more sophisticated than it was then (iVTEC is continuously variable timing vs stepped like original 90s VTEC).  Suspension design has gone lower tech, at least in the Civic.

The problem isn't so much the tech as it is the implementation.  The fun has sort of faded out of the brand as they've become progressively more conservative.

There are 2 pieces and within the lift piece 2 types of VTEC

There is the i which is the cam phasing which all the new ones have

And then there is the variable lift. The old DOHC VTEC had variable lift on intake and exhaust. Now, just intake, which was the cheaper "eco" VTEC. Makes no sense to have exhaust VTEC as they ditched tubular manifolds that could exploit it for cat converter heating single exhaust ports. I think they have all but done away with the DWB in front except for flagship Acuras as well. So there is some new stuff but IMO they have generally regressed

[FlatBlackCaddy]

The loss of double wishbone suspension in the accord was a huge blow to the sports sedan market.

I know whole generations of enthusiasts who now drive hybrid camry's while in a catatonic state due to that horrible blow to the enthusiast market.

[Northlands]

Honda simply doesn't have to try to innovate like they tried to in the 90's anymore. They have legions of followers that for the most part, don't have a clue or even care what the cars have lost of the years ( in terms of fun to drive. ) Plus the cost cutting is helping them with their margins on their best selling vehicles  ( looking at you, Civic. ) As it is, I think Civics on average haven't become particularly expensive anyway. Wait until the end of the year and you find some cheap examples of new ones on sale.

Hyundai is likely to pick up the ball in the next 5 years to a decade and start swallowing up disenfranchised Honda customers. They've improved themselves in leaps and bounds over the last decade. Sort of reminds me of how Honda started out.

[12,000 RPM]

The loss of double wishbone suspension in the accord was a huge blow to the sports sedan market.

I know whole generations of enthusiasts who now drive hybrid camry's while in a catatonic state due to that horrible blow to the enthusiast market.

It did set them apart. 10, 15, 20 years ago an Accord drove very differently from a Camry. That gap has closed. That difference was valuable for Honda. It's no different than BMW losing its dynamic edge. Sure there are still reasons to buy BMWs/Hondas but for the most part dynamics are no longer one of them.

And I get that it's smart business. These days green & tech sell and Honda has that covered. But in many cases they dumped tech seemingly for no reason. How much could they possibly have saved with the new cylinder head design on the Civic Si? A couple hundred dollars? Folks buying it would gladly have paid that premium, even without the extra HP (the OLD K-series motors can net good HP from a mere reflash and bolt ons). I feel like the next Civic Si will be a stupid fucking hybrid. It's just really disappointing.

[MX793]

There are 2 pieces and within the lift piece 2 types of VTEC

There is the i which is the cam phasing which all the new ones have

And then there is the variable lift. The old DOHC VTEC had variable lift on intake and exhaust. Now, just intake, which was the cheaper "eco" VTEC. Makes no sense to have exhaust VTEC as they ditched tubular manifolds that could exploit it for cat converter heating single exhaust ports.

Part of the reason you don't see much DOHC VTEC is because Honda doesn't offer many DOHC motors in North America anymore.  Granted, they've always seemed to like SOHC, even their motocross bikes are SOHC while everyone else has twin cams.  The J-series, which powers all of their larger cars, is SOHC.  The R series and L series motors in their smaller cars are SOHC.  The K series in the CSi, Accord, and some Acura models is the only DOHC motor they still offer stateside.

[SVT32V]

There are 2 pieces and within the lift piece 2 types of VTEC

There is the i which is the cam phasing which all the new ones have

And then there is the variable lift. The old DOHC VTEC had variable lift on intake and exhaust. Now, just intake, which was the cheaper "eco" VTEC. Makes no sense to have exhaust VTEC as they ditched tubular manifolds that could exploit it for cat converter heating single exhaust ports. I think they have all but done away with the DWB in front except for flagship Acuras as well. So there is some new stuff but IMO they have generally regressed

Pretty bad when a $30K mustang GT has a higher tech (DOHC VVTi) and more hp/liter engine than a $30K accord V6 (84 vs 79 hp/liter), especially since the mustang has 1.5 liters more.

[MX793]

Pretty bad when a $30K mustang GT has a higher tech (DOHC VVTi) and more hp/liter engine than a $30K accord V6 (84 vs 79 hp/liter), especially since the mustang has 1.5 liters more.

Ford only has variable valve timing, no variable lift.  Honda has variable valve timing and lift.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Ford only has variable valve timing, no variable lift.  Honda has variable valve timing and lift.

I thought variable lift vtak was dead
So what does that do for the Honda? Apparently, not much. Maybe an mpg.

[Secret Chimp]

You could "buy" the last NSX, but not register it on the road.

Huh?

Are you somehow confusing one of Ferrari's track-only releases?

[MrH]

Japanese OEMs are typically really conservative. The last few years are the end result of the cars developed during the downturn. Not sure why anyone is surprised.

I'd still put Honda near top of the pack on my mainstream market segments.

[SVT32V]

Ford only has variable valve timing, no variable lift.  Honda has variable valve timing and lift.

Ford has DOHC on the 5.0 with separate cam phasing for intake and exhaust, the SOHC honda cannot phase both separately and continuously. Further the Honda can just step between lobes, there is no in between, either a low speed lobe or a high speed lobe (although in some cases the had three lobes in the DOHC.
In my understanding of the ford system it is much more like the continuously variable vanos system of BMW.

[MX793]

Ford has DOHC on the 5.0 with separate cam phasing for intake and exhaust, the SOHC honda cannot phase both separately and continuously. Further the Honda can just step between lobes, there is no in between, either a low speed lobe or a high speed lobe (although in some cases the had three lobes in the DOHC.
In my understanding of the ford system it is much more like the continuously variable vanos system of BMW.

Traditional VTEC was a stepped timing and lift shift.  i-VTEC, which practically all Hondas are now fitted with, combines continuously variable cam phasing with a stepped lift changeover.  While Honda's SOHC motor obviously can't phase intake and exhaust independently, it does have both variable phasing and lift on the intakes with dependent phasing on the exhaust.  Ford has only phasing, which is not as sophisticated.  Every major manufacturer uses cam phasing these days.  Ford was one of the last major companies to use it, starting in '98.  The major Japanese and European companies were using it in the late 80s and early 90s.  Variable lift, stepped or continuous, is not as widely used and Ford has yet to produce a motor that has that capability.

[SVT32V]

No Doubt ford was late to the VVT game compared to imports, but I fail to see the SOHC V6 as more sophisticated than DOHC continuously variable valve timing.
With Fords emphasis on turbos, valve lift is probably not as important as phasing, there will be more then enough air velocity to fill the cylinders. That said, it is curious that variable lift has not appeared on a ford engine.
At the end of the day, the ford, toyota, honda v6s all seem to have a similar output somewhere between 270 and low 300s hp. Many ways to arrive at the same place and suggests the vvt/sohc/dohc/VVL presence or absence is not limiting.

[Atomic]

There are enough welcomed changes here to excited a committed Honda man, woman and family to keep us all extremely happy and more than content with our Honda-Acura relationships well beyond the introduction of the next all new product for MY16, as we understand it. A nice surprise after the host of revisions to the 2013-MY Honda Civic: The 2014 Honda Civic LX Coupe, Civic EX Coupe, Civic Si Coupe, Civic Si Sedan and all other Civic Sedan variants for '14.... Even non-loyalists should find something to like, IMHO. Here is what I found while shopping for our next Civic model... A 2014 Civic EX-L Coupe with NAVI... To be ordered very, very soon. Color? Hmm... TBD. For now, the latest, as promised. ~ Tom

First Drive: 2014 Honda Civic Coupe and Sedan

CVT Among the Best; Touchscreens As Good As a Smartphone

By Scott Evans | November 21, 2013  |



2014 Honda Civic Si Interior Photo Courtesy of Honda of America

See All 34 Photos from MT*

*Awaiting link

(MotorTrend Magazine) If you've lost track of the ongoing Honda Civic saga, I'll catch you up. The Civic was redesigned for 2012, but received lukewarm reviews. Despite strong sales, Honda decided an emergency refresh was in order, and it was out for the 2013 model year, but the sedan received most of the updates while the coupe soldiered on relatively the same. Now, for 2014, the coupe received the big update as well, and the sedan picked up a few more improvements still. Got it? Good.

Let's start with the improvements both cars received. The two biggest changes you're likely to notice will be the new continuously variable transmission and the all-new infotainment system. The CVT replaces the ancient and out-classed five-speed automatic and does so in fine form. It's related but not identical to the new CVT in the larger Accord, but behaves the same way. It's one of the best CVTs on the market in my estimation, behaving somewhat similarly to a standard automatic transmission in simulating shifts rather than jumping to one RPM point and sitting there. Its greatest advantage, bar none, is that it's much, much smoother than the old five-speed. All of the jerkiness of the old gearbox at throttle tip-in and during shifts is gone. Driven back-to-back against a 2013 model, the whole powertrain feels smoother and more refined.

     
More good news: Honda estimates city fuel economy for the sedan will improve by two mpg to 30, which will help push combined fuel economy to 33 mpg from 32. Highway fuel economy holds at 39 MPG. If you want more, the Civic HF is likewise improved, picking up two mpg city, one highway and two combined for a total of 31 city, 42 highway and 35 combined. Numbers for the coupe haven't been announced yet, but they'll likely be the same.

If the CVT has a drawback, it makes the Civic feel slightly slower off the line. The aggressive first gear in the old five-speed meant you got pushed back in the seat a little when starting from a stop with moderate throttle. The CVT eliminates that surge, which while smoother, feels as though the car isn't pulling as hard from a stop. We'll have to wait until we can test the car to see if there's any actual difference in acceleration, but I doubt it. Beyond that feeling at launch, the new Civics feel no faster or slower than last year's. Unless, of course, you drop it into Sport.

That's right. The automatic Civic finally has a Sport mode and even paddle shifters. As you'd expect, Sport makes the throttle calibration more aggressive and keeps the revs higher. The result is a car that feels a bit more peppy and responsive. It frankly makes the standard Drive mode feel a little lethargic by comparison. In Drive, the emphasis is clearly on comfort and relaxation. The paddle shifters, should you choose to use them, will treat the CVT like a seven-speed gearbox and it shifts between those faux gears pretty quickly.

Testing, as I said, will have to wait for another day, but we can make an educated guess here. The 2014 Civic matches its new CVT to the same engine, but sports a new exhaust system that adds three horsepower and one pound-foot of torque. As such, we can confidently guess that the zero-to-60 mph time won't deviate much from the 9.1 seconds we recorded for a 2013 model. A roughly 17-second quarter-mile is likely as well, as is the 119-foot stopping distance we recorded last time.

The only performance metric that could change would be the cornering grip, and that would be limited to the coupe. It gets new dampers, slightly stiffer springs and a stiffer rear anti-roll bar, along with new 16-inch wheels and tires. Altogether, they may help lift the coupe's skid pad and figure eight numbers slightly from the 0.81 average g and the 28.5-second lap at 0.58 average g we recorded on that 2013 sedan. On our admittedly short test drive, the new coupe's handling didn't seem drastically different than the sedan's, with perhaps a bit better roll control when cornering and a slightly stiffer ride. Both cars still feel pretty light and handle reasonably well for the class. The steering continues to feel light and artificial, with no feedback from the road. Matches the relaxed powertrain.

The other feature both cars share and will definitely grab your attention is the all new "Display Audio" (Display Audio+ if you get navigation) infotainment system. Completely replacing Honda's outdated infotainment system, Display Audio(+) is a huge step forward. Gone are all the little buttons around the edges, replaced with four permanent, touch-sensitive buttons on the left side: Home, Volume, Menu and Back. In a neat trick, the buttons disappear whenever the option isn't available, such as when you're already on the Home screen, and when the car is turned off. The large, display sports familiar blue-on-blue Honda graphics, but is far more usable than before. The Menu button is no longer a catch-all, but brings up a specific menu for the screen you're on, be it audio, nav or other. The result is that while you don't have immediate access to every function as you did with all the hard buttons, the screens and menus are less layered and easier to navigate.

Perhaps the greatest advancement of the new system is its gesture recognition. All the swiping, pinching, sliding and multi-tapping you do on your smartphone or tablet is recognized, and unlike certain other systems (looking at you, CUE), it works quite well. Scrolling through a list of, say, satellite radio stations can be done with a simple flick of the finger. That also works when scrolling on the map, which will zoom with pinches. Alternatively, just drag your finger across the map to move it. The screen also functions as the three-mode backup camera display and the LaneWatch display. Borrowed from the Accord, it mounts a camera under the passenger-side mirror and activates whenever you use the right turn signal and shows you what's in your blind spot.

The system's one drawback is in its sensitivity. A majority of the time, my inputs were recognized, but I found that if I didn't push a virtual button quite long enough (and we're talking fractions of a second here), it would light up, but wouldn't register the input. It's not quite as responsive as your smartphone in that regard. This was most prevalent and frustrating when trying to type in an address, as the system was further slowed as it tried to narrow the search while I was typing, which introduced a lag between when I hit the button, when it recognized the next input and when the screen changed. The system otherwise worked fantastically, and I would call it one of the best on the market right now.

We've talked a lot about the changes to both cars, but there are a few changes specific to the updated coupe. In addition to the slightly stiffer suspension, the coupe also gets some exterior cosmetic updates. The most notable is the new grille and headlights, which are similar to that of the new Fit compact hatch. We're not really sold on them. We do, however, like the more aggressive lower fascia and the strong character line running over the tops of the front fenders. Around back, new headlights and some dimples in the bumper liven things up a little. The coupe also gets exclusive wheels.

Also receiving some updates is the Civic Si coupe. It gets an exclusive grille design (which we like better than the standard coupe's), a slightly different lower front fascia and exclusive 18-inch wheels. Out back, it picks up a faux diffuser down low and a spoiler on the trunk. Inside, you get red inserts in all the seats. Under the hood, it gets a grand total of four more horsepower and four more pound-feet of torque from an improved exhaust system. Here, again, we'll take a guess and say its zero-to-60 mph time will be unchanged from the 2013 Si coupe we tested. That means 6.1 seconds to 60 mph, followed by a 14.6-second quarter-mile at 95.6 mph. Skid pad performance may improve slightly from the 0.87 average g we recorded, as may the Figure Eight lap, which we clocked at 26.5 seconds at 0.66 average g. Fuel economy shouldn't change from the current 22 city/31 highway rating. We weren't able to drive the updated Si, so we can't say yet if there are any noticeable differences in performance or handling on the road.
All in all, the 2014 Honda Civic coupe and sedan are minor refreshes of already-competent vehicles. The updates to each should help make the cars more attractive and more competitive against an ever-more-cutthroat segment. They don't rocket ahead, but they're now in no danger of quickly falling behind Given that Civic is already the segment sales leader, this improved car should continue that.

2014 Honda Civic

Base price: $18,500-$27,500 (MT est)

Drivetrain: Front-engine, FWD

Engine(s): 1.8L/143-hp/129-lb-ft DOHC I-4; 2.4L/205-hp/174-lb-ft DOHC I-4

Transmission(s): CVT, 6-speed manual

Curb weight: 2700-2900 lb (mfr)

Wheelbase: 103.2-105.1 in

Length x width x height: 175.5-179.4 x 69.0 x 55.0-56.5 in

0-60 MPH: 6.1-9.1 sec (MT est)

EPA city/hwy fuel eco: 30-31/39-42 mpg (est)

Energy cons., city/hwy: 109-112/80-86 kW-hrs/100 miles (est)

CO2 emissions: 0.55-0.58 lb/mile (est)

On Sale: December '13 (sedan, coupe), January '14 (HF), February '14 (Hybrid, CNG), March '14 (Si)[/i]