Leaf owner arrested for plugging in at school

[Soup DeVille]

I have accessible outlets at my house.  If someone plugged into mine, I would find a problem with it.

And the whole, "my taxes pay for blah blah blah" argument is as dumb as the day is long when it comes to excusing ass-hattery.

Your house isn't public property, nor is it private property that is in normal use by the public unless you happen to live in a mall.

That argument is invalid.

And the guy does seem to be a douchenozzle, but that's not illegal.

[bing_oh]

Is an open receptacle in a public park not reasonably assumed to be for public use? Would a guy who plugged his phone charger into that same plug, or his radio, or his electric wheelchair be thought to be stealing as well?

Sounded like it was a school, not a public park. Schools, like most other buildings, have a need for exterior electrical sockets...that doesn't mean they're there for the general use of the public. And, technically yes, all those other people would be stealing as well.

[Morris Minor]

The guy should publicly apologize. He uses the government to forcibly extract cash from taxpayers to pay for the credits to subsidize his car. Ungrateful for that, he steals electricity from the local school system while trespassing on their property.

[sparkplug]

Soon the government be claiming they own the power that people get from solar panels.

[S204STi]

And the guy does seem to be a douchenozzle, but that's not illegal.

There should be a law against it.

[NomisR]

There should be a law against it.

What do we do with the douchenozzles?

[Soup DeVille]

Soon the government be claiming they own the power that people get from solar panels.

Some states already fine people for collecting rainwater off their roofs.

[NomisR]

Some states already fine people for collecting rainwater off their roofs.

They even threw a guy in jail for collecting rain water too.

[Raza]

Some states already fine people for collecting rainwater off their roofs.

[Eye of the Tiger]

How can this be a thing?

[Soup DeVille]

Sounded like it was a school, not a public park. Schools, like most other buildings, have a need for exterior electrical sockets...that doesn't mean they're there for the general use of the public. And, technically yes, all those other people would be stealing as well.

I believe there's some similarity in the laws; school playgrounds after all have been fair game for after hours playground uses for decades in most places.

And while I certainly don't think its widespread, a local park here (Rochester Hills Mi) recently added convenience outlets next to park benches expressly for the use of park patrons. There's no sign saying though, but that it what they were installed for.

As I said, it is arguable that the car owner had a reasonable expectation that the plugs in that area where indeed meant for the convenience of the public.

We've established he's an arsehole. That's besides the point.

Whether he was asked to not be at that tennis court before or not is also besides the point, as he wasn't charged with tresspassing or anything related to him being there against the law.

Also, as I understand it, the cop opened the unattended vehicle's unlocked door, and then rifled through the glovebox until he found the registration and an address and then informed the owber he'd be being charged later. This seems questionable legally.

[Soup DeVille]

How can this be a thing?

The rain belongs to the state- you collecting it 20 gallonsor so of it in a barrel and then sprinkling it on your own plants later on at your own schedule without paying taxes on it not only upsets the entire ecological balance of the region, but it steals money from the state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/us/29rain.html?_r=0

[NomisR]

And you have this

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/08/16/man-jailed-for-collecting-rainwater-in-illegal-reservoirs-on-his-property/



I don't see the problem with a man made lake. 

But.. if Oregon claims all water is public property, would they be responsible for flood damage since it would be damage done by public property..

[hounddog]

According to the story it wasn't a complaint filed by a citizen; an LEO rolled upon the "thief" and began asking questions, and concluded theft occurred. 

It was clearly written with an anti-LE slant, and, had you read the statement from the Chief just above your post you would have seen that there was in fact, a citizen complaint via 911. 

By the way, asking questions is often how LE determines a crime is has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur.  It is call an "interview."   

The underpinning of intent, is, well, intent. Did the Leaf owner intend to or know he was "stealing" electricity? Tens of millions of people plug AC devices into wall outlets in the US every day without asking the property owner - airport, coffee shop, restaurant, library, etc., etc. - without ever getting accused for theft or larceny.

[sigh]

[Rupert]

And you have this

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/08/16/man-jailed-for-collecting-rainwater-in-illegal-reservoirs-on-his-property/



I don't see the problem with a man made lake. 

But.. if Oregon claims all water is public property, would they be responsible for flood damage since it would be damage done by public property..

That's a lot of water! No way that's needed for just this guy. It's also in a part of Oregon with a history of huge water rights issues.

[Catman]

"911, this line is recorded, what is your emergency?"

"Yes, I am at the school and there is a man that plugged his car into the electrical outlet at the side of the building.  PLEASE!  Send someone immediately! Hurry!"

[Soup DeVille]

"911, this line is recorded, what is your emergency?"

"Yes, I am at the school and there is a man that plugged his car into the electrical outlet at the side of the building.  PLEASE!  Send someone immediately! Hurry!"

I have to imagine a lot of 911 calls are just fucking stupid.

[dazzleman]

My good hunch is there is more to the story. The Leaf owner kinda looks like one of those militant whiny green liberal types. He probably gave the LEO a bunch of guff and otherwise forced the situation.

My guess is that you hit the nail right on the head.

[hounddog]

I have to imagine a lot of 911 calls are just fucking stupid.

Not long after I left DPD and went to the township (bedroom community to greater Detroit) I was sent to one of the elementary schools for an assault:

Two 2-3rd graders had taken sticks and were hitting each other in anger with them.  Both mothers DEMANDED the other child be arrested and taken to jail.  They were so out of control I nearly had to arrest them.

They both filed complaints against me for not arresting the other kids with my PD, prosecutors office and even complained to a judge.  One even hired a lawyer who sent a very tough sounding letter to my agency.

Many of the calls 911 get are just asinine. 

[dazzleman]

Not long after I left DPD and went to the township (bedroom community to greater Detroit) I was sent to one of the elementary schools for an assault:

Two 2-3rd graders had taken sticks and were hitting each other in anger with them.  Both mothers DEMANDED the other child be arrested and taken to jail.  They were so out of control I nearly had to arrest them.

They both filed complaints against me for not arresting the other kids with my PD, prosecutors office and even complained to a judge.  One even hired a lawyer who sent a very tough sounding letter to my agency.

Many of the calls 911 get are just asinine.

In my town, one guy called 911 to demand that the first department drain his hot tub.  Others called because their cable service wasn't working.  Idiots.

[TurboDan]

And you have this

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/08/16/man-jailed-for-collecting-rainwater-in-illegal-reservoirs-on-his-property/



I don't see the problem with a man made lake. 

But.. if Oregon claims all water is public property, would they be responsible for flood damage since it would be damage done by public property..

Generally speaking, water is not "owned" by anyone, however it is "held in the public trust" by a state government agency. If you have a home on the water, you have to ask the state for either a riparian lease or grant in order to drive piles, build a dock and run electricity.

But generally speaking this applies only to open bodies of water that meet certain benchmarks (navigable, tidal, covered under CWA, etc.). In my town we have a privately-owned lake, but nobody knows who owns it since no taxes have been paid on it in about 70 years and they can't track down the living relatives of the former owner. In this case, the town doesn't want responsibility for the lake because they'd have to maintain it, clean it and they'd probably on the hook to build a park there to current safety specifications.

[Raza]

The rain belongs to the state- you collecting it 20 gallonsor so of it in a barrel and then sprinkling it on your own plants later on at your own schedule without paying taxes on it not only upsets the entire ecological balance of the region, but it steals money from the state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/us/29rain.html?_r=0

[TurboDan]

I think the other issue with this case is that they likely don't want to set a precedent whereby it's okay to "steal" electricity from public buildings. I can picture, if these vehicles take off in popularity, a line of cars outside municipal buildings and schools with people waiting to charge their cars for free.

The part of this case that disturbs me a bit is the officer opening up the guy's car and rifling through his glove box. Couldn't he just have run the plate to determine the owner? If the cop wanted to unplug the car and have it towed, fine, but I don't like the idea of needless fishing expeditions.

A lot of these cases are written to make them sound extreme when they are really not. We've had cases in New Jersey where people have been arrested for stealing sand from the beach. People made fun of the laws and really high fines for sand stealing, but after Hurricane Sandy, those laws prevented construction contractors from stealing sand the taxpayers paid for (to create temporary dunes) to use in their construction projects.

[NomisR]

That's a lot of water! No way that's needed for just this guy. It's also in a part of Oregon with a history of huge water rights issues.

I think one of the article says the guy has 3 lakes with fishes in it...  i'm still trying to understand why there's a need to jail someone over a manmade lake...

[NomisR]

I think the other issue with this case is that they likely don't want to set a precedent whereby it's okay to "steal" electricity from public buildings. I can picture, if these vehicles take off in popularity, a line of cars outside municipal buildings and schools with people waiting to charge their cars for free.

The part of this case that disturbs me a bit is the officer opening up the guy's car and rifling through his glove box. Couldn't he just have run the plate to determine the owner? If the cop wanted to unplug the car and have it towed, fine, but I don't like the idea of needless fishing expeditions.

A lot of these cases are written to make them sound extreme when they are really not. We've had cases in New Jersey where people have been arrested for stealing sand from the beach. People made fun of the laws and really high fines for sand stealing, but after Hurricane Sandy, those laws prevented construction contractors from stealing sand the taxpayers paid for (to create temporary dunes) to use in their construction projects.

So is it really stupid laws or simply stupid LE and prosecutors taking existing laws to the extreme? 

[Tave]

In common law terms I think it does. Everywhere I go - Starbucks, library, airport, tire shop (today), etc. - people (including me) use "public" outlets even if not explicitly marked or given explicit permission.

All those are places of business held open to the general public. Schools generally aren't. Even public schools (K-12) control access and require visitors/guests/etc... to check in at the front desk.

I think we can put some more context around the analogy. Using an outlet at the airport to charge your phone? Probably alright. Using your neighbor's water hose to water your garden? Probably not alright. I think the school's power outlets might fall more towards the latter.

[NomisR]

All those are places of business held open to the general public. Schools generally aren't. Even public schools (K-12) control access and require visitors/guests/etc... to check in at the front desk.

I think we can put some more context around the analogy. Using an outlet at the airport to charge your phone? Probably alright. Using your neighbor's water hose to water your garden? Probably not alright. I think the school's power outlets might fall more towards the latter.

Well, what about using the school's water fountain to fill up your sports bottle?  That's actually more similar to the outlet scenario than the neighbor's water hose. 

[Catman]

Well, what about using the school's water fountain to fill up your sports bottle?  That's actually more similar to the outlet scenario than the neighbor's water hose.

What about setting up a hydroelectric dam in the hallway where the fountain is, then plugging the Leaf into the dam generators?

[NomisR]

What about setting up a hydroelectric dam in the hallway where the fountain is, then plugging the Leaf into the dam generators?

I guess if you're not taking the water, it would be kinda like using a toilet so it'll be ok...

now where do i find myself a portable hydroelectric dam I can carry around with me?

[NomisR]

Or do this..

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-07/toilet-tech-power-generator-turns-wastewater-electricity