VW says it has sold over 100,000 TDI diesels in America this year

[Soup DeVille]

That's a "sports car" all right.

Hey, according to the rules it is...

[Raza]

Audi begs to differ.

Competition <> Enjoyment

[AltinD]

^^ So you would say NO to a 3/4-Series Cabriolet with M/T?

[veeman]

One of the real nice things I've found from owning a diesel car - 500 miles between fill-ups.  It's pychologically gratifying to drive for three hours straight, and see the fuel gauge just mildly budge.

[Byteme]

One of the real nice things I've found from owning a diesel car - 500 miles between fill-ups.  It's pychologically gratifying to drive for three hours straight, and see the fuel gauge just mildly budge.

I've got two cars that will do that.B CLK320 and 2007 Mazda6; both gasoline engines.  In both cases the miles exceeds my bladder capacity.   

[MX793]

I've got two cars that will do that.B CLK320 and 2007 Mazda6; both gasoline engines.  In both cases the miles exceeds my bladder capacity.   

Maybe on a long highway run you can get 500 miles out of those cars, but not in mixed driving.  You can go 500 miles between fill ups in the new Jetta or Golf diesel in mixed city/highway driving (600+ on a long highway slog).

[Byteme]

Maybe on a long highway run you can get 500 miles out of those cars, but not in mixed driving.  You can go 500 miles between fill ups in the new Jetta or Golf diesel in mixed city/highway driving (600+ on a long highway slog).

True, but in truth gas mileage isn't my highest priority since I buy about 25 gallons of gas a month, tops. Unless we take a road trip, then it's nice to not have to fill up frequently.

[CALL_911]

I'm not sold on diesel powering my daily driver.

I had a Golf TDI for an afternoon, while my car was in the shop. Really was a great little car, but considering I could get a GTI for the same $ as that TDI, I would never go for it. Yeah, the thing probably got ridiculous fuel economy (according to the trip computer, I was pulling in the low 40s while beating the shit out of the thing), but considering the high price of both diesel and the car, and the comparatively low fun factor, it's a no-go for me. At least comparing the GTI and the Golf TDI, GTI every single day. A6 3.0T vs A6 TDI, 328i vs 328d, etc., I would always take the gas version. At least in the US, the value argument just isn't there.

[Soup DeVille]

I wonder if diesel would still be more expensive than petrol if all those ethanol subsidies suddenly disappeared...

[Raza]

^^ So you would say NO to a 3/4-Series Cabriolet with M/T?

Is that directed at me?

Current generation, definitely.  I don't like the 4 series at all.  But I don't know what that has to do with diesels.  Or sports cars, since the 4 series is not a sports car and neither is the 3 series. 

[giant_mtb]

I'm not sold on diesel powering my daily driver.

I had a Golf TDI for an afternoon, while my car was in the shop. Really was a great little car, but considering I could get a GTI for the same $ as that TDI, I would never go for it. Yeah, the thing probably got ridiculous fuel economy (according to the trip computer, I was pulling in the low 40s while beating the shit out of the thing), but considering the high price of both diesel and the car, and the comparatively low fun factor, it's a no-go for me. At least comparing the GTI and the Golf TDI, GTI every single day. A6 3.0T vs A6 TDI, 328i vs 328d, etc., I would always take the gas version. At least in the US, the value argument just isn't there.

But someone buying more of an appliance vehicle (aka, not an "enthusiast") probably won't be deciding between a GTI and a diesel because they don't care about the GTI because they're not trying to buy a fun car necessarily.

[CALL_911]

In the case of the Golf, the TDI is most comparable to the GTI in terms of price

[CALL_911]

If you want to compare it to the 2.5L Golf, it makes even less sense

[giant_mtb]

If you want to compare it to the 2.5L Golf, it makes even less sense

People spend extra money for features they don't need all the time.

If someone wants a diesel, they're gonna buy a diesel and compare it to other diesels. If they want to spend the money for it...who cares.  That's their choice and to them, it makes sense.

[CALL_911]

People spend extra money for features they don't need all the time.

If someone wants a diesel, they're gonna buy a diesel and compare it to other diesels. If they want to spend the money for it...who cares.  That's their choice and to them, it makes sense.

?

......okay but we're discussing the value argument. in other words, this is an objective thing. i'm not sure what this post has to do with anything

[giant_mtb]

?

......okay but we're discussing the value argument. in other words, this is an objective thing. i'm not sure what this post has to do with anything

But value doesn't have to be objective.  People feel they're getting good value when they get what they want at a price they like.

Price doesn't necessarily equal value.

[CALL_911]

But value doesn't have to be objective.  People feel they're getting good value when they get what they want at a price they like.

Price doesn't necessarily equal value.

No shit, that's why we're discussing the financial angle! That is objective.

[cawimmer430]

One of the real nice things I've found from owning a diesel car - 500 miles between fill-ups.  It's pychologically gratifying to drive for three hours straight, and see the fuel gauge just mildly budge.

Exactly. 

[Onslaught]

One of the real nice things I've found from owning a diesel car - 500 miles between fill-ups.  It's pychologically gratifying to drive for three hours straight, and see the fuel gauge just mildly budge.

I do that in my car too. Every three hours I fill it back up again.

[12,000 RPM]

Audi begs to differ.

This is less a sports car than a rolling technology test bed

Put it like this... if diesel sports cars were such a great idea, why are there 0 in existence?

[cawimmer430]

Put it like this... if diesel sports cars were such a great idea, why are there 0 in existence?

Here are some of the current diesel-powered SPORTS CARS available on the European market today.

Audi TT Coupé 2.0 TDI Quattro
BMW 123d Coupe
BMW M550i XDrive
BMW Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo Coupé / Sedan / Touring
BMW Alpina D5 Bi-Turbo Sedan / Touring
Mercedes SLK250 CDI
Peugeot RCZ 2.0 HDI
Porsche Panamera Diesel
Volkswagen Golf GTD
Volkswagen Scirocco 2.0 TDI

[Madman]

Here are some of the current diesel-powered SPORTS CARS available on the European market today.

Audi TT Coupé 2.0 TDI Quattro
BMW 123d Coupe
BMW M550i XDrive
BMW Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo Coupé / Sedan / Touring
BMW Alpina D5 Bi-Turbo Sedan / Touring
Mercedes SLK250 CDI
Peugeot RCZ 2.0 HDI
Porsche Panamera Diesel
Volkswagen Golf GTD
Volkswagen Scirocco 2.0 TDI

I'll accept the TT, RCZ and the SLK but the rest aren't sports cars.

[cawimmer430]

I'll accept the TT, RCZ and the SLK but the rest aren't sports cars.

Sport[y]s Cars...

A BMW 123d Coupe is a pretty sporty car according to local reviews.

[Madman]

Sport[y]s Cars...

A BMW 123d Coupe is a pretty sporty car according to local reviews.

A sports coupe is different from a sports car.

[Raza]

Here are some of the current diesel-powered SPORTS CARS available on the European market today.

Audi TT Coupé 2.0 TDI Quattro
BMW 123d Coupe
BMW M550i XDrive
BMW Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo Coupé / Sedan / Touring
BMW Alpina D5 Bi-Turbo Sedan / Touring
Mercedes SLK250 CDI
Peugeot RCZ 2.0 HDI
Porsche Panamera Diesel
Volkswagen Golf GTD
Volkswagen Scirocco 2.0 TDI

Not a single one of those is a sports car.  Sedans and hatchbacks, yes.  Even a GT or two.  Not a single sports car. 

I mean, a few will argue with me over the exact definition, but we can all agree that a 550i is not a sports car.

[cawimmer430]

Not a single one of those is a sports car.  Sedans and hatchbacks, yes.  Even a GT or two.  Not a single sports car. 

I mean, a few will argue with me over the exact definition, but we can all agree that a 550i is not a sports car.

So an Audi TT or BMW 1er Coupe isn't a "sports car"?

[CALL_911]

So an Audi TT or BMW 1er Coupe isn't a "sports car"?

No. One's a Golf in fancy clothes, and the other is for all intents and purposes a small family car with two doors.

[2o6]

I feel like weight is more of in issue than powerband with a diesel sports car.

[giant_mtb]

Yeah.  All that oil is pretty damn heavy.

[2o6]

Yeah.  All that oil is pretty damn heavy.

Most diesel motors are wayyy heavier than a comparable gasoline motor.



A Diesel Cruze is about (at least) 300lbs heavier than an identically equipped LTZ 1.4T auto Cruze.