The 2015 F150

[ifcar]

It's like they're back pedaling now. I'm not sure what to make of it.

Yeah, if they knew they'd do this, I feel like they'd have announced it during the unveiling.


I'm honestly wondering if it wouldn't have made sense for Ford to make aluminum and non-aluminum versions of the F-150. Volume should be high enough to justify that -- each version would probably be the No. 1 and No. 2 best-sellers in the entire Ford lineup anyway.

[Byteme]

The thing is most dealerships don't have body shops anymore. The old ones in Charlotte still have them but all the new Ford dealerships here don't. Most of them shut down around here.

I've noticed that trend. 

So Ford certifies the body shops that are still ran by dealers which tends to drive owners of aluminum F150'sto those shops thus increasing those shops revenues.  Sounds like a win for the dealers and Ford.

[Onslaught]

Ford's going to need to improve the way they package their parts. Some brands do a really good job of boxing up metal parts so they don't get fucked up. But Ford has never gave it much thought to tell you the truth. And after you have several delivery people making minimum wage handling the items they can often look worse then the parts on the wrecked car. Take the Mustang fender I got this week. It's been on national back order for four weeks. Four fucking weeks for me to get a god damn Mustang fender and when it came in it was worse then the one I was replacing.

[veeman]

Yeah, if they knew they'd do this, I feel like they'd have announced it during the unveiling.


I'm honestly wondering if it wouldn't have made sense for Ford to make aluminum and non-aluminum versions of the F-150. Volume should be high enough to justify that -- each version would probably be the No. 1 and No. 2 best-sellers in the entire Ford lineup anyway.

That would be weird.  It would confuse consumers and be a marketing nightmare (hey we've got two trucks:  one is cutting edge and is made of high strength light weight aluminum but it'll cost you a lot more to insure and the other one gets worse gas mileage.  Pick your poison!).

From a body hardware perspective, this is the most advanced mass market pick-up out there and there's going to be some hiccups along the way.  In the end I think it's a great decision and there's less a Chevy or dodge guy can say regarding how his truck is better than his neighbor's ford.  It's more going to be about how his Chevy or dodge is a better deal than his neighbor's superior ford and you've already lost the psychological battle then.

[ifcar]

That would be weird.  It would confuse consumers and be a marketing nightmare (hey we've got two trucks:  one is cutting edge and is made of high strength light weight aluminum but it'll cost you a lot more to insure and the other one gets worse gas mileage.  Pick your poison!).

It could be treated as optional equipment. If you don't want to pay extra or if you trust only old-school materials, you don't choose that option. It's like how Ford charges extra for Ecoboost engines that are supposed to be better at everything -- lots of people would rather skip the fancy turbo for something familiar.

[Byteme]

It could be treated as optional equipment. If you don't want to pay extra or if you trust only old-school materials, you don't choose that option. It's like how Ford charges extra for Ecoboost engines that are supposed to be better at everything -- lots of people would rather skip the fancy turbo for something familiar.

It's still two vehicles, two entirely seperate body lines from the raw metal coils of metal to the paint booth.  Ford would lose alot of the economies of scale they enjoy producing the number of F150's they do now.   

[ifcar]

It's still two vehicles, two entirely seperate body lines from the raw metal coils of metal to the paint booth.  Ford would lose alot of the economies of scale they enjoy producing the number of F150's they do now.   

Each single iteration would still be higher-volume than most other Ford products. But yeah, maybe that is a necessary margin to compete with the other high-volume trucks.

[MX793]

Yeah, if they knew they'd do this, I feel like they'd have announced it during the unveiling.


I'm honestly wondering if it wouldn't have made sense for Ford to make aluminum and non-aluminum versions of the F-150. Volume should be high enough to justify that -- each version would probably be the No. 1 and No. 2 best-sellers in the entire Ford lineup anyway.

That would require completely different tooling (big expense) and completely different finishing (painting) processes for the two panel materials at a minimum.  Not at all practical.

[Soup DeVille]

That would require completely different tooling (big expense) and completely different finishing (painting) processes for the two panel materials at a minimum.  Not at all practical.

The F250 and 350 are still steel, and I expect they will remain so.

[Byteme]

The F250 and 350 are still steel, and I expect they will remain so.

I'm not into truck so I've never really had reason to notice.  Do the F250 and F350 use all different body panels than the F150?

[MX793]

The F250 and 350 are still steel, and I expect they will remain so.

Pretty sure there aren't any shared body panels between the F150 and the larger F series trucks.

[ifcar]

That would require completely different tooling (big expense) and completely different finishing (painting) processes for the two panel materials at a minimum.  Not at all practical.

Meh. It's practical to have different tooling to make both a Ford Fiesta and a Ford Focus, and each F-150 variant would probably outsell each of them combined.

[MX793]

Meh. It's practical to have different tooling to make both a Ford Fiesta and a Ford Focus, and each F-150 variant would probably outsell each of them combined.

A lot of F-150s go to fleets, and fleets will most assuredly purchase the cheapest variant (steel panels), which in turn drives the price of the aluminum panel version that much higher.  Much like Toyota implementing LED headlights in all Corolla trims, Ford needs to go all aluminum on the F150 so that the volume can dilute the cost.

[Soup DeVille]

Pretty sure there aren't any shared body panels between the F150 and the larger F series trucks.

If there are, it's not in the cab.

But it does leave open the option for a lighter duty F250 for contractors and such.

[SVT666]

I'm not into truck so I've never really had reason to notice.  Do the F250 and F350 use all different body panels than the F150?

They're completely different trucks.

[Byteme]

Thanks all, I googled the question and got this:  http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/12/automobiles/autoshow/the-f-150s-aluminum-diet.html?_r=0

From the article:

The new F-150 is Ford's first step in a broad strategy to shift all of its full-size truck bodies, including the F-250 and F-350 Super Duty pickups and the Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator S.U.V.'s, to primarily aluminum construction over the next three years, Ford engineers said. The plan will create common manufacturing processes and tooling in Ford's three United States truck plants.

But engineers say that a stamped-aluminum body can equal or even outperform steel in overall strength, dent resistance and crash protection, depending on the material used, its thickness and how the structure is designed and assembled. There are challenges: While it will probably be months before the 2015 prices are announced, industry experts say that the use of aluminum will raise the cost of producing F-150s by several hundred dollars.

Ford is using 5000- and 6000-series sheet — the numbers indicate the particular alloys — supplied by Alcoa and Novelis. These alloys are popular with automakers because they are easy to form, rugged and, in the case of 6000, provide the smooth "class A" surfaces required for visible panels like fenders.

About half of the truck's stampings will use the more expensive 6000-series sheet, heat-treated to a T4 condition, a manufacturing step that significantly toughens the material by heating it to 750 degrees Fahrenheit for two hours, followed by immediate quenching in water. The material hardens further when the body goes through the paint-drying oven.

Ford engineers said the F-150's body and box strength also comes from the combination of structural adhesive — basically industrial glue — and some 4,000 rivets used to join much of the aluminum, replacing about 7,000 spot welds of a steel truck.

While the bodies will shift to aluminum, F-Series models will continue to use separate steel ladder-type frames, which are the foundation of the trucks' towing and payload capabilities. The frame of the F-150 is a new design that is stronger, yet 80 pounds lighter, than the 2014 version. Its front section is made using a process called roll forming, which results in an exceptionally robust yet lighter structure, Ron Krupitzer, head of automotive applications at the Steel Market Development Institute, said. Other parts remaining in steel include side-impact door beams and the front and rear bumpers.

[Byteme]

And this from the repair side:
Ford dealers will gear up to fix new F-150Some see competitive  edge in investing early in equipment, trainingNADA attendees crowd the Ford exhibit to view service tools available to repair aluminum body panels in the new Ford F-150.

Photo credit: JOE WILSSENS 0 Comments Print Reprints Respond

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Click here to see how the switch to an aluminum-bodied truck will affect key industry players.

Related Topics

   
• Dealers
• Service
• Automakers
• Ford
• Aluminum

Bradford Wernle
Automotive News
February 3, 2014 - 12:01 am ET NEW ORLEANS -- Though they waited three years to see the much-anticipated 2015 aluminum F-150, it didn't take Ford dealers Randall Reed and Jim Seavitt long to decide to invest in gearing up their body shops to repair it.

Reed: "It's a no-brainer."

"It's a no-brainer," said Reed, owner of World Class Automotive Group in Dallas, as he gathered equipment brochures at the Ford stand at the National Automobile Dealers Association convention here. After all, Reed's six Ford dealerships sold 5,000 to 6,000 pickups last year. He wants to be ready when the pickup arrives in the fourth quarter.
Seavitt, owner of Village Ford in Dearborn, Mich., said he sees a business advantage: "The nice thing is some smaller dealers won't do it, so that business will come to me. I'm going to try to get it done by March."
Reed said he's also going to act quickly. He says he will invest roughly $50,000 at each of his six body shops.
"We're going to buy this early so we're not sitting there in October taking a huge hit," he said.
Ford estimates it will cost dealers $30,000 to $50,000 to modify their body shops to handle aluminum.
The equipment will include aluminum repair stations, rivet guns, metal inert gas welders, vacuums, tools and heavy duty rubberized curtains to seal off aluminum repair areas.

Seavitt: Will outfit body shop by March

Ford is trying to encourage dealers to take the plunge by offering a 20 percent discount on equipment purchases up to $10,000. It will pay to train one technician at every dealership.
The rebate expires Oct. 31, so dealers have some time to decide.
About 20 percent of Ford's roughly 3,100 dealers have body shops. Some may decide they don't do enough truck repairs to justify the investment.
Ford is not requiring dealers to be certified to make aluminum repairs, but the company is highly recommending certification. By the time the truck launches, Ford expects to have a national network of aluminum-capable repair facilities -- both dealers and independent contractors -- in place.
Lloyd Schiller, a consultant who specializes in fixed operations, recommends that dealers don't wait around to get the tools and training.
"I would certainly want to be one of the first, rather than one of the last," said Schiller. "If I were a dealer with a for-real body shop, I'd go ahead and get the tools and equipment."
He said Ford is likely to follow the aluminum-intensive F-150 with increased use of aluminum on the "Explorer and everything else that's trucklike."
He added: "Before the equipment gets back ordered, I'd sure want to be ahead of the independents."
Ford has announced that the new F-150 will be as much as 700 pounds lighter than the outgoing pickup. When Ford executives introduced the F-150 at the Detroit auto show in January, executives said other Ford vehicles will be introduced with lightweight materials.

Massie: Curtain can isolate aluminum area

Paul Massie, Ford collision marketing manager, said that 80 percent of repairs -- the common dents and dings -- could be done by any body shop. More complicated structural repairs are the ones that need special tools and training for aluminum.
"It's when you get to that 20 percent, it's our desire that they become aluminum-capable," he said.
Aluminum and steel don't mix well. If aluminum dust comes into contact with steel parts in adjacent bays, it can cause those parts to corrode. Consequently, dealers will have to set up either permanent separate bays or temporary bays sealed off with floor-to-ceiling rubber curtains, said Massie.
So dealers have to think carefully about where to put the aluminum repair bays and how to set them up.
"Our biggest problem is: How much room do we dedicate to it?" said Seavitt. "I'll do two bays and be ready to expand. I have 15 paint stalls and 20 bump stalls."
Seavitt says he'll convert existing bays to aluminum capability rather than add more bricks and mortar. Seavitt also will pay for training for additional technicians above the one per dealership that Ford is subsidizing.
Seavitt shared another concern that was on the minds of many dealers in New Orleans: whether insurance rates will be higher for the aluminum truck, a potential deterrent to customers.
"We're holding our breath about insurance costs," he said. "If they can bring aluminum in cheaper, it will be a plus. We just don't want insurance costs to go up other than modestly."
Ford has not publicly issued an estimate of insurance costs.
Todd Citron, general manager of Hub City Ford in Lafayette, La., said a number of questions arose at Ford's make meeting at the NADA convention about insurance rates and repair costs on the new F-150.
"They think it [repair costs] will be the same or possibly less," said Citron after the meeting.
Consultant Schiller says dealers who make themselves aluminum-capable will be viewed more kindly by insurance companies.
"When you're the go-to people, you'll just get more work from the insurance companies as a result," he said. "The easier you make it for insurance companies to send you work, the more work you get."
Three training courses will be offered to Ford dealers under the aegis of the Inter-Industry Conference on Auto Collision Repair, known as I-CAR, a nonprofit group that trains and certifies collision repair technicians.
The courses start in May for dealers and in June for independent body shops.
Ford dealers know that between now and the Oct. 31 deadline for the 20 percent equipment rebate, they have to become aluminum-savvy.
Joe Townsend of Charles Townsend Ford in Tuscaloosa, Ala., spoke for many dealers when he said: "We've got a lot to learn about this truck."

[veeman]

great post.   

[Onslaught]

"When you're the go-to people, you'll just get more work from the insurance companies as a result," he said. "The easier you make it for insurance companies to send you work, the more work you get."

Actually, the way it works now is "the more you suck the insurance companies dick and do it for way less then others the more work you get."

[Secret Chimp]

Thanks all, I googled the question and got this:  http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/12/automobiles/autoshow/the-f-150s-aluminum-diet.html?_r=0

From the article:

The new F-150 is Ford's first step in a broad strategy to shift all of its full-size truck bodies, including the F-250 and F-350 Super Duty pickups and the Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator S.U.V.'s, to primarily aluminum construction over the next three years, Ford engineers said. The plan will create common manufacturing processes and tooling in Ford's three United States truck plants.

But engineers say that a stamped-aluminum body can equal or even outperform steel in overall strength, dent resistance and crash protection, depending on the material used, its thickness and how the structure is designed and assembled. There are challenges: While it will probably be months before the 2015 prices are announced, industry experts say that the use of aluminum will raise the cost of producing F-150s by several hundred dollars.

Ford is using 5000- and 6000-series sheet — the numbers indicate the particular alloys — supplied by Alcoa and Novelis. These alloys are popular with automakers because they are easy to form, rugged and, in the case of 6000, provide the smooth "class A" surfaces required for visible panels like fenders.

About half of the truck's stampings will use the more expensive 6000-series sheet, heat-treated to a T4 condition, a manufacturing step that significantly toughens the material by heating it to 750 degrees Fahrenheit for two hours, followed by immediate quenching in water. The material hardens further when the body goes through the paint-drying oven.

Ford engineers said the F-150's body and box strength also comes from the combination of structural adhesive — basically industrial glue — and some 4,000 rivets used to join much of the aluminum, replacing about 7,000 spot welds of a steel truck.

While the bodies will shift to aluminum, F-Series models will continue to use separate steel ladder-type frames, which are the foundation of the trucks' towing and payload capabilities. The frame of the F-150 is a new design that is stronger, yet 80 pounds lighter, than the 2014 version. Its front section is made using a process called roll forming, which results in an exceptionally robust yet lighter structure, Ron Krupitzer, head of automotive applications at the Steel Market Development Institute, said. Other parts remaining in steel include side-impact door beams and the front and rear bumpers.

[Byteme]

You can expect to see GM go to aluminum for most of the body components by the end of 2018.

[sparkplug]

Now all ford need to put in their f-150 is a diesel. if they can build a bulletproff reliable tough, powerful one.

[Madman]

Why is everyone making such a big deal about an aluminium-bodied pickup?  This is not a new or original idea at all.

One company has been building aluminium-bodied trucks since 1948......





In fact, it is the very same company that Ford stole the idea from in the first place.  Clearly Ford got the idea to make an aluminium truck at some point between 2000 and 2008, when Ford owned Land Rover.  After all, if you're going to steal an idea, you may as well steal from the best!

[MrH]

Why is everyone making such a big deal about an aluminium-bodied pickup?  This is not a new or original idea at all.

One company has been building aluminium-bodied trucks since 1948......





In fact, it is the very same company that Ford stole the idea from in the first place.  Clearly Ford got the idea to make an aluminium truck at some point between 2000 and 2008, when Ford owned Land Rover.  After all, if you're going to steal an idea, you may as well steal from the best!

[Madman]

Are you disputing the idea that Ford stole (okay, "borrowed"  ) the idea from Land Rover?

Of course, Rover originally came upon the idea out of post-war necessity.  Steel was in short supply in 1948 but there was a surplus of aluminium available thanks to the burgeoning wartime aircraft industry.  The only thing that surprises me is that it took so long for anyone else to copy the idea.