What do you guys think about this...

[Raghavan]

I have used i-Drive and I like it.  But I was talking about appearance, TBR.

When did you use it, and under what conditions?

I used it at an AutoShow, and found it easy to scroll.  Although I admit, I am yet to use it while driving.  I think I ought to pull an Ifcar and take it out for a test drive.

There you go. At the auto show, it was simple enough to navigate through the submenus to do things. However, if you are driving while trying to do that, or trying to do something quickly, it gets old fast.

yup. you have to basically memorize the whole thing so you can concentrate on the road instead of the screen.

That really isn't feasible.

and that's why IDrive is a flop.

It certainly hasn't been well-recieved, but it's impossible to judge its actual effect on sales.

The current BMW 7er sold better than the previous gen, so it would be hard to say that i-Drive, while hardly well received, is causing a decline in sales.

well, at least for me, iDrive wouldn't stop the purchase of a BMW, so that may be the rational for other buyers too.

[SJ_GTI]

Its hard to call iDrive a flop. Since it came out I think every single manufactuer, with the possible exceptions of Cadillac and Jaguar, have also introduces similar systems. You can argue about which ones are better, but iDrive in and of itself is not a bad idea.

Also keep in mind that iDrive isn't the same from model to model. The 5-series and 3-series version are simpler, and offer redundant controls of often used system (AC and Radio most obviously). Personally I have never found iDrive intrusive to the driving experience, though I would say its not something I would pay extra to get.

[BMWDave]

Its hard to call iDrive a flop. Since it came out I think every single manufactuer, with the possible exceptions of Cadillac and Jaguar, have also introduces similar systems. You can argue about which ones are better, but iDrive in and of itself is not a bad idea.

Also keep in mind that iDrive isn't the same from model to model. The 5-series and 3-series version are simpler, and offer redundant controls of often used system (AC and Radio most obviously). Personally I have never found iDrive intrusive to the driving experience, though I would say its not something I would pay extra to get.

The new 7 has the simpler system also.

[ifcar]

Its hard to call iDrive a flop. Since it came out I think every single manufactuer, with the possible exceptions of Cadillac and Jaguar, have also introduces similar systems. You can argue about which ones are better, but iDrive in and of itself is not a bad idea.

Also keep in mind that iDrive isn't the same from model to model. The 5-series and 3-series version are simpler, and offer redundant controls of often used system (AC and Radio most obviously). Personally I have never found iDrive intrusive to the driving experience, though I would say its not something I would pay extra to get.

Only Audi and Acura have even remotely similar setups.  

[Raghavan]

Its hard to call iDrive a flop. Since it came out I think every single manufactuer, with the possible exceptions of Cadillac and Jaguar, have also introduces similar systems. You can argue about which ones are better, but iDrive in and of itself is not a bad idea.

Also keep in mind that iDrive isn't the same from model to model. The 5-series and 3-series version are simpler, and offer redundant controls of often used system (AC and Radio most obviously). Personally I have never found iDrive intrusive to the driving experience, though I would say its not something I would pay extra to get.

Only Audi and Acura have even remotely similar setups.

and the Acura only has it on the RL.

[BMWDave]

Its hard to call iDrive a flop. Since it came out I think every single manufactuer, with the possible exceptions of Cadillac and Jaguar, have also introduces similar systems. You can argue about which ones are better, but iDrive in and of itself is not a bad idea.

Also keep in mind that iDrive isn't the same from model to model. The 5-series and 3-series version are simpler, and offer redundant controls of often used system (AC and Radio most obviously). Personally I have never found iDrive intrusive to the driving experience, though I would say its not something I would pay extra to get.

Only Audi and Acura have even remotely similar setups.

and the Acura only has it on the RL.

Well thats because the RL is their newest car, so naturally, it would be the only one to have the interface.

[Raghavan]

Its hard to call iDrive a flop. Since it came out I think every single manufactuer, with the possible exceptions of Cadillac and Jaguar, have also introduces similar systems. You can argue about which ones are better, but iDrive in and of itself is not a bad idea.

Also keep in mind that iDrive isn't the same from model to model. The 5-series and 3-series version are simpler, and offer redundant controls of often used system (AC and Radio most obviously). Personally I have never found iDrive intrusive to the driving experience, though I would say its not something I would pay extra to get.

Only Audi and Acura have even remotely similar setups.

and the Acura only has it on the RL.

Well thats because the RL is their newest car, so naturally, it would be the only one to have the interface.

i'm just proving Mtl-A4 wrong.

[TBR]

I have used i-Drive and I like it.  But I was talking about appearance, TBR.

For the most part, so was I. In my post you will find only one post complaining about idrive itself while the rest of the post was dedicated to complaining that idrive has a negative effect on the appearance of the cabin due to a certain layout it dictates and that it doesn't get rid of the button jumble like it was intended to. However, I am also no big fan of the way idrive works

[SJ_GTI]

The new M45 has a system like iDrive, and I am fairly certain the new GS has a similar system (though I haven't actually used it). And, according to spy photo's the new S-Class will also get a new system like iDrive.

[BMWDave]

The new M45 has a system like iDrive, and I am fairly certain the new GS has a similar system (though I haven't actually used it). And, according to spy photo's the new S-Class will also get a new system like iDrive.

The new s class's interior looks too much like a 7 series.  It is a complete ripoff.

[ifcar]

The new M45 has a system like iDrive, and I am fairly certain the new GS has a similar system (though I haven't actually used it). And, according to spy photo's the new S-Class will also get a new system like iDrive.

And if those interior spy pics of the Mercedes are accurate, I have no idea what they were thinking.

The GS certainly doesn't, and the M (like the RL) has redundant controls (voice-activated and standard buttons) for pretty much everything, like BMW should.

[SJ_GTI]

The new M45 has a system like iDrive, and I am fairly certain the new GS has a similar system (though I haven't actually used it). And, according to spy photo's the new S-Class will also get a new system like iDrive.

And if those interior spy pics of the Mercedes are accurate, I have no idea what they were thinking.

The GS certainly doesn't, and the M (like the RL) has redundant controls (voice-activated and standard buttons) for pretty much everything, like BMW should.

I'll have to check on the GS, but as for whether or not Acura's or Infiniti's system is better that wasn't my point. Companies are obviously following BMW's example. Not surprisingly, the newer versions are easier to use.

As for redundant controls, keep in mind on the new 3-series it is available with and without iDrive. The 5-series has the most used things with redunant controls on the steering wheel.

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive? Anway we should start a different thread. I don't think this is on topic.  :P  

[BMWDave]

The new M45 has a system like iDrive, and I am fairly certain the new GS has a similar system (though I haven't actually used it). And, according to spy photo's the new S-Class will also get a new system like iDrive.

And if those interior spy pics of the Mercedes are accurate, I have no idea what they were thinking.

The GS certainly doesn't, and the M (like the RL) has redundant controls (voice-activated and standard buttons) for pretty much everything, like BMW should.

I'll have to check on the GS, but as for whether or not Acura's or Infiniti's system is better that wasn't my point. Companies are obviously following BMW's example. Not surprisingly, the newer versions are easier to use.

As for redundant controls, keep in mind on the new 3-series it is available with and without iDrive. The 5-series has the most used things with redunant controls on the steering wheel.

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive? Anway we should start a different thread. I don't think this is on topic.  :P

Yea, this went from a test drive thread to a i-drive thread.

[SJ_GTI]

Anway we should start a different thread. I don't think this is on topic.  :P

Yea, this went from a test drive thread to a i-drive thread.

:waits:

C'mon Dave do your thing. You are the man when it comes to starting new threads!  :P  :P  

[BMWDave]

Anway we should start a different thread. I don't think this is on topic.? :P

Yea, this went from a test drive thread to a i-drive thread.

:waits:

C'mon Dave do your thing. You are the man when it comes to starting new threads!  :P  :P

All right, sure thing.

[ifcar]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

[Raghavan]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

i hope idrive isn't present in the next gen BMW models.

[BMWDave]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

i hope idrive isn't present in the next gen BMW models.

If they fix it and make it easier to use, I see no reason no to put it in.  If it becomes really easy to use, then redundant controls arent necessary, which is the beauty of the idea of i-Drive.  

[ifcar]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

i hope idrive isn't present in the next gen BMW models.

If they fix it and make it easier to use, I see no reason no to put it in.  If it becomes really easy to use, then redundant controls arent necessary, which is the beauty of the idea of i-Drive.

The very concept is flawed IMO. Navigating through menus while controlling a 4,000-lb hunk of metal travelling at 60 miles per hour is not only annoying, it's borderline unsafe. There really isn't anything that the use of a rotary control knob will do as well as (and especially not better than) a well-designed button layout (except "clean up the dash"), so why bother with it at all?

[BMWDave]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

i hope idrive isn't present in the next gen BMW models.

If they fix it and make it easier to use, I see no reason no to put it in.  If it becomes really easy to use, then redundant controls arent necessary, which is the beauty of the idea of i-Drive.

The very concept is flawed IMO. Navigating through menus while controlling a 4,000-lb hunk of metal travelling at 60 miles per hour is not only annoying, it's borderline unsafe. There really isn't anything that the use of a rotary control knob will do as well as (and especially not better than) a well-designed button layout (except "clean up the dash"), so why bother with it at all?

Perhaps if they had a touch screen angled at the driver he could control the screen as easily as he would press or turn a radio button.

[ifcar]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

i hope idrive isn't present in the next gen BMW models.

If they fix it and make it easier to use, I see no reason no to put it in.  If it becomes really easy to use, then redundant controls arent necessary, which is the beauty of the idea of i-Drive.

The very concept is flawed IMO. Navigating through menus while controlling a 4,000-lb hunk of metal travelling at 60 miles per hour is not only annoying, it's borderline unsafe. There really isn't anything that the use of a rotary control knob will do as well as (and especially not better than) a well-designed button layout (except "clean up the dash"), so why bother with it at all?

Perhaps if they had a touch screen angled at the driver he could control the screen as easily as he would press or turn a radio button.

But then you have a touch-screen system instead of a rotary knob setup. And you're still stuck plowing through submenus, you're just using your fingers. Not only is that very different from the current iDrive setup, I still don't see how that would be more useful than a standard button setup.  

[BMWDave]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

i hope idrive isn't present in the next gen BMW models.

If they fix it and make it easier to use, I see no reason no to put it in.  If it becomes really easy to use, then redundant controls arent necessary, which is the beauty of the idea of i-Drive.

The very concept is flawed IMO. Navigating through menus while controlling a 4,000-lb hunk of metal travelling at 60 miles per hour is not only annoying, it's borderline unsafe. There really isn't anything that the use of a rotary control knob will do as well as (and especially not better than) a well-designed button layout (except "clean up the dash"), so why bother with it at all?

Perhaps if they had a touch screen angled at the driver he could control the screen as easily as he would press or turn a radio button.

But then you have a touch-screen system instead of a rotary knob setup. And you're still stuck plowing through submenus, you're just using your fingers. Not only is that very different from the current iDrive setup, I still don't see how that would be more useful than a standard button setup.

It wouldnt be that hard...you have a screen, press radio, and dial in the station you want.  Takes 5 seconds.

[Raza]

I like buttons.  I have had buttons in my Passat and E320, and don't feel slighted in any way.  

[ifcar]

But frankly if you are going to make everything have a redundant control...why even have a system like iDrive?

Exactly.

Manufacturers introducing new systems, and even BMW revising its own system, have added redundant controls to improve ergonomics. And by the time they've done that, such a system has been rendered useless.

i hope idrive isn't present in the next gen BMW models.

If they fix it and make it easier to use, I see no reason no to put it in.  If it becomes really easy to use, then redundant controls arent necessary, which is the beauty of the idea of i-Drive.

The very concept is flawed IMO. Navigating through menus while controlling a 4,000-lb hunk of metal travelling at 60 miles per hour is not only annoying, it's borderline unsafe. There really isn't anything that the use of a rotary control knob will do as well as (and especially not better than) a well-designed button layout (except "clean up the dash"), so why bother with it at all?

Perhaps if they had a touch screen angled at the driver he could control the screen as easily as he would press or turn a radio button.

But then you have a touch-screen system instead of a rotary knob setup. And you're still stuck plowing through submenus, you're just using your fingers. Not only is that very different from the current iDrive setup, I still don't see how that would be more useful than a standard button setup.

It wouldnt be that hard...you have a screen, press radio, and dial in the station you want.  Takes 5 seconds.

Dialing in a station alone would take more than that. It would, however, take five seconds or less to press a button for the radio to turn it on, and then either scan through the various radio stations or hit a preset button to get to a specific station.

[SJ_GTI]

Ifcar, exactly what is it you are doing while driving that you would need to use iDrive for?

You do realize that audio and climate controls are also on the steering wheel, right?

iDrive is used for the Navigation system, setting channels, pre-setting climate settings, and other personalization things you do while not driving.

I don't understand why you keep insisting that iDrive is a safety hazard because its hard to use while driving.

I have never, ever felt the need to use iDrive while driving the 5-series or 3-series. Its something I would use when buying my car, or adjusting the settings between seasons and such (times, dates, etc...). Its not something you have to, or would even want to, use while driving.

[Raghavan]

Ifcar, exactly what is it you are doing while driving that you would need to use iDrive for?

You do realize that audio and climate controls are also on the steering wheel, right?

iDrive is used for the Navigation system, setting channels, pre-setting climate settings, and other personalization things you do while not driving.

I don't understand why you keep insisting that iDrive is a safety hazard because its hard to use while driving.

I have never, ever felt the need to use iDrive while driving the 5-series or 3-series. Its something I would use when buying my car, or adjusting the settings between seasons and such (times, dates, etc...). Its not something you have to, or would even want to, use while driving.

climate settings are something that people change while driving.

[SJ_GTI]

Ifcar, exactly what is it you are doing while driving that you would need to use iDrive for?

You do realize that audio and climate controls are also on the steering wheel, right?

iDrive is used for the Navigation system, setting channels, pre-setting climate settings, and other personalization things you do while not driving.

I don't understand why you keep insisting that iDrive is a safety hazard because its hard to use while driving.

I have never, ever felt the need to use iDrive while driving the 5-series or 3-series. Its something I would use when buying my car, or adjusting the settings between seasons and such (times, dates, etc...). Its not something you have to, or would even want to, use while driving.

climate settings are something that people change while driving.

Again, standard audio and climate controls are on the steering wheel.

Unless you change your presets on a daily basis while driving this is not something you would use. Considering a large portion of cars don't even have this option to set preset climate settings, I would say its not something that someone would have to do while driving.

[ifcar]

Ifcar, exactly what is it you are doing while driving that you would need to use iDrive for?

You do realize that audio and climate controls are also on the steering wheel, right?

iDrive is used for the Navigation system, setting channels, pre-setting climate settings, and other personalization things you do while not driving.

I don't understand why you keep insisting that iDrive is a safety hazard because its hard to use while driving.

I have never, ever felt the need to use iDrive while driving the 5-series or 3-series. Its something I would use when buying my car, or adjusting the settings between seasons and such (times, dates, etc...). Its not something you have to, or would even want to, use while driving.

climate settings are something that people change while driving.

Again, standard audio and climate controls are on the steering wheel.

Unless you change your presets on a daily basis while driving this is not something you would use. Considering a large portion of cars don't even have this option to set preset climate settings, I would say its not something that someone would have to do while driving.

Even during a 20-minute test drive, I was forced to use the iDrive system multiple times. There are some audio tuning functions that cannot be selected through the steering wheel controls, and I don't see why a driver wouldn't change the climate control settings to reflect how they're feeling at that moment.

It makes sense to introduce redundant controls that are easier to use, but by that point, it's the iDrive setup that's redundant.  

[SJ_GTI]

Ifcar, exactly what is it you are doing while driving that you would need to use iDrive for?

You do realize that audio and climate controls are also on the steering wheel, right?

iDrive is used for the Navigation system, setting channels, pre-setting climate settings, and other personalization things you do while not driving.

I don't understand why you keep insisting that iDrive is a safety hazard because its hard to use while driving.

I have never, ever felt the need to use iDrive while driving the 5-series or 3-series. Its something I would use when buying my car, or adjusting the settings between seasons and such (times, dates, etc...). Its not something you have to, or would even want to, use while driving.

climate settings are something that people change while driving.

Again, standard audio and climate controls are on the steering wheel.

Unless you change your presets on a daily basis while driving this is not something you would use. Considering a large portion of cars don't even have this option to set preset climate settings, I would say its not something that someone would have to do while driving.

Even during a 20-minute test drive, I was forced to use the iDrive system multiple times. There are some audio tuning functions that cannot be selected through the steering wheel controls, and I don't see why a driver wouldn't change the climate control settings to reflect how they're feeling at that moment.

It makes sense to introduce redundant controls that are easier to use, but by that point, it's the iDrive setup that's redundant.

You are being disingenuous.

Climate controls functions are on the steering wheel, so adjustments do not require iDrive. You would only need to use iDrive if you were setting up personalized memorized set-ups.

And the steering wheel controls are redundant, but then alot of cars offer redundant controls on the steering wheel for often used things, like audio and climate controls regardless of whether they offer more complicated functions as buttons on the dash.

[ifcar]

Ifcar, exactly what is it you are doing while driving that you would need to use iDrive for?

You do realize that audio and climate controls are also on the steering wheel, right?

iDrive is used for the Navigation system, setting channels, pre-setting climate settings, and other personalization things you do while not driving.

I don't understand why you keep insisting that iDrive is a safety hazard because its hard to use while driving.

I have never, ever felt the need to use iDrive while driving the 5-series or 3-series. Its something I would use when buying my car, or adjusting the settings between seasons and such (times, dates, etc...). Its not something you have to, or would even want to, use while driving.

climate settings are something that people change while driving.

Again, standard audio and climate controls are on the steering wheel.

Unless you change your presets on a daily basis while driving this is not something you would use. Considering a large portion of cars don't even have this option to set preset climate settings, I would say its not something that someone would have to do while driving.

Even during a 20-minute test drive, I was forced to use the iDrive system multiple times. There are some audio tuning functions that cannot be selected through the steering wheel controls, and I don't see why a driver wouldn't change the climate control settings to reflect how they're feeling at that moment.

It makes sense to introduce redundant controls that are easier to use, but by that point, it's the iDrive setup that's redundant.

You are being disingenuous.

Climate controls functions are on the steering wheel, so adjustments do not require iDrive. You would only need to use iDrive if you were setting up personalized memorized set-ups.

And the steering wheel controls are redundant, but then alot of cars offer redundant controls on the steering wheel for often used things, like audio and climate controls regardless of whether they offer more complicated functions as buttons on the dash.

Steering wheel controls are always redundant so far as I know (otherwise only the driver can make adjustments). Not my point.

Anyway, I do not recall exactly which was adjusted (it's been several weeks since I've used the system) but I got a detailed explanation from the salesman each time I asked how something was done, and most adjustments involved the iDrive (this was in a 750i).