Passed my 2014 TÜV! Yay!

[GoCougs]

Nope. There is no manufacturing in the United States anymore...better to become an English major than an engineering major.

I think a lot of companies are getting tired of getting their intellectual property stolen and dealing with poor quality from China. When things level out economically, you might as well manufacture here.

China still has a good lock on raw materials, esp. subsidizing stuff made in the country.

As to IP China is going to pay a huge price. They spent all this time copying and stealing (sorta - there's a cultural component that to the Chinese it's not theft from their POV) and doing the bidding of others such that there is little value creation talent. When mfg starts to leave en masse they have risk of falling behind again.

[Raza]

Yes. And one needs a first aid course for the drivers license.

That's not the worst idea I've heard. Include a basic first aid course with licensing. Might save some lives after accidents. Especially since we have he Good Samaritan law, which protects you if you try to help and something goes wrong.

[Raza]

Nope. There is no manufacturing in the United States anymore...better to become an English major than an engineering major.

I think a lot of companies are getting tired of getting their intellectual property stolen and dealing with poor quality from China. When things level out economically, you might as well manufacture here.

I actually drove past a factory yesterday, in the city. They make ball bearings.

[SJ_GTI]

Most Volkswagen owners have the perpetual check engine light, so I guess you're lucky.

[AltinD]

Most Volkswagen owners have the perpetual check engine light, so I guess you're lucky.

You do know that in 80% or more of the cases that light meant the idiot (driver) forgot to properly screw the fuel tank cap, right?

.... also it was a state-side specific coding, elsewhere it wasn't programmed to throw that code, obviously because the future drivers were told during driving training on how to operate the vehicle (including the need to make sure the cap was screwed/tightened properly) and the need to actually read the Car's manual

[AltinD]

China still has a good lock on raw materials, esp. subsidizing stuff made in the country.

As to IP China is going to pay a huge price. They spent all this time copying and stealing (sorta - there's a cultural component that to the Chinese it's not theft from their POV) and doing the bidding of others such that there is little value creation talent. When mfg starts to leave en masse they have risk of falling behind again.

Bllah, bllah, bllah ... attitudes such these will fuck you people up in mid-long term

[GoCougs]

That's not the worst idea I've heard. Include a basic first aid course with licensing. Might save some lives after accidents. Especially since we have he Good Samaritan law, which protects you if you try to help and something goes wrong.

But it's close to the worst idea, as is Good Samaritan law.

[GoCougs]

Bllah, bllah, bllah ... attitudes such these will fuck you people up in mid-long term

Attitudes? That is fact, data and logic. China has severe issues with IP protection and innovation; some of it cultural and some of it practical (getting manufacturing business only through state action/manipulation). This stunts China from moving forward on these two topics, which stunts them from being self sustainable, and sets them up for a severe downfall for when mfg moves to India, S. America, wherever.

[MrH]

Attitudes? That is fact, data and logic. China has severe issues with IP protection and innovation; some of it cultural and some of it practical (getting manufacturing business only through state action/manipulation). This stunts China from moving forward on these two topics, which stunts them from being self sustainable, and sets them up for a severe downfall for when mfg moves to India, S. America, wherever.

+1 on this and your previous post.  China seriously lacks the innovation to be anything more than our cheap labor source.  They'll crash once another region takes over that role.

[cawimmer430]

You have inspections every other year.  What happens if a head or tail light burns out 2 days after the inspection?  What if a wheel bearing goes bad 6 months after the inspection?  What if an emissions sensor fails?  What if they hit a pothole and break a radial belt or bend part of their suspension linkage?  What prevents the owner from driving the car in that state for the next year+ without repairing the issue?

Those are valid points. And here's what can happen.

Your neighbors will tell you about it. Other motorists will inform you of this. A police cruiser that drives behind you and notices a burn-out taillight will flag you down and inform you about it etc.

Even if such a problem crept up at the TÜV, they'd inform you about it and demand that you get it fixed ASAP - which means on the same day or at the latest the next day.

[hotrodalex]

Neighbors in America are also capable of letting you know your light is burnt out, without the need for a silly inspection.

[MX793]

Those are valid points. And here's what can happen.

Your neighbors will tell you about it. Other motorists will inform you of this. A police cruiser that drives behind you and notices a burn-out taillight will flag you down and inform you about it etc.

Even if such a problem crept up at the TÜV, they'd inform you about it and demand that you get it fixed ASAP - which means on the same day or at the latest the next day.

Burnt out tail lamp is easily spotted by any bystander, but several of the others wouldn't necessarily be, and what prevents an owner from ignoring these issues for months, if not over a year, should something happen between TUVs?

NY has annual inspections.  Not as intensive as the TUV, but they check brakes, lights, condition of the tires, horn, look for obvious structural/rust issues, scan the ECU for fault codes...  My dad used to be an inspector.  He always used to emphasize that when he passed a car, he was only certifying that, on the day he looked at it, that car met all of the inspection criteria.  Tomorrow, it might not.  And the vehicle may be driven in that condition for the rest of the year until the next annual inspection rolled around and they were forced to fix it.

[AltinD]

Attitudes? That is fact, data and logic. China has severe issues with IP protection and innovation; some of it cultural and some of it practical (getting manufacturing business only through state action/manipulation). This stunts China from moving forward on these two topics, which stunts them from being self sustainable, and sets them up for a severe downfall for when mfg moves to India, S. America, wherever.

The Chinese are absolutely not the lame parasite you neocon supremacists make them to be. They do innovate, they have been doing that for millenniums, often doing and discovering things centuries before the European "invented" and "discovered" them. They are just picking themselves up right now. In the late 1800s it was you Americans that were considered the thieves and tech copies and IP forgers of the world. Than the Japanese, later the Koreans and now the Chinese

[MrH]

The Chinese are absolutely not the lame parasite you neocon supremacists make them to be. They do innovate, they have been doing that for millenniums, often doing and discovering things centuries before the European "invented" and "discovered" them. They are just picking themselves up right now. In the late 1800s it was you Americans that were considered the thieves and tech copies and IP forgers of the world. Than the Japanese, later the Koreans and now the Chinese

Thank you for your modern analysis.

[GoCougs]

The Chinese are absolutely not the lame parasite you neocon supremacists make them to be. They do innovate, they have been doing that for millenniums, often doing and discovering things centuries before the European "invented" and "discovered" them. They are just picking themselves up right now. In the late 1800s it was you Americans that were considered the thieves and tech copies and IP forgers of the world. Than the Japanese, later the Koreans and now the Chinese

How much work have you done in China?

[GoCougs]

Thank you for your modern analysis.

Meh, moral/historical relativists are always desperate for a win in order to validate themselves...

At my last gig we had to keep certain tooling features out of tooling because one of about 1000 common problems is Chinese plant managers/owners will sell factory time on the black market such that forgers get to use the tooling/processes in off hours to make legit "counterfeits."

[MrH]

Meh, moral/historical relativists are always desperate for a win in order to validate themselves...

At my last gig we had to keep certain tooling features out of tooling because one of about 1000 common problems is Chinese plant managers/owners will sell factory time on the black market such that forgers get to use the tooling/processes in off hours to make legit "counterfeits."

We hear absolutely crazy things about China (mostly at my last job). Tons of practices that just don't fly in Europe or the US. Tons of expensive equipment sitting on floors, and a whole group trying to replicate it right across the aisle.

This stuff is too complicated to be able to make an exact duplicate unless you really know what you're doing. And if you really knew what you were doing, you wouldn't be copying to begin with. It always ends up being a comical mess.

It's just like school. If you go through life just peaking at the smart kid's test and copying it, you're never going to get it. And trying to take a look over his shoulder and copy three pages of calculus is never going to go well. Things will be left out, and at the end of the day, you still won't understand it.

[cawimmer430]

Burnt out tail lamp is easily spotted by any bystander, but several of the others wouldn't necessarily be, and what prevents an owner from ignoring these issues for months, if not over a year, should something happen between TUVs?

The obvious answer is NOTHING.

However, the TÜV inspection can determine the condition of the brakes, electrics etc. and if the brakes are in poor condition or "about to go bad", the TÜV can give you a warning.

Either way, it's been working for years and it does keep people on their toes and vehicles in working condition.

NY has annual inspections.  Not as intensive as the TUV, but they check brakes, lights, condition of the tires, horn, look for obvious structural/rust issues, scan the ECU for fault codes...  My dad used to be an inspector.  He always used to emphasize that when he passed a car, he was only certifying that, on the day he looked at it, that car met all of the inspection criteria.  Tomorrow, it might not.  And the vehicle may be driven in that condition for the rest of the year until the next annual inspection rolled around and they were forced to fix it.

[GoCougs]

We hear absolutely crazy things about China (mostly at my last job). Tons of practices that just don't fly in Europe or the US. Tons of expensive equipment sitting on floors, and a whole group trying to replicate it right across the aisle.

This stuff is too complicated to be able to make an exact duplicate unless you really know what you're doing. And if you really knew what you were doing, you wouldn't be copying to begin with. It always ends up being a comical mess.

It's just like school. If you go through life just peaking at the smart kid's test and copying it, you're never going to get it. And trying to take a look over his shoulder and copy three pages of calculus is never going to go well. Things will be left out, and at the end of the day, you still won't understand it.

My company's product was relatively simple to make -small (hand held), various plastic molded parts, stamped steel, circuit board and batteries.

We had issues with counterfeits. Chinese firms would spend big $$$ to make molds (at least least 4) and turn circuit boards and print packaging (we hadn't transferred mfg yet). This doesn't happen in a dark alley somewhere - you need real firms doing these things. And there were many counterfeit outfits - our estimates were at least 6.

When my company got bought (by huge multinational) their head of IP protection had to work with us on these and other things (he was career FBI - serious dude). He gave us rundown on ALL sorts of scams and theft and counterfeit that they deal with every day from China (stuff we didn't see since we didn't make the same products as the new owner). It is hilarious.

There are major elements in Chinese culture that don't see it as theft and that is why it is such a problem. If it were a criminal element it'd be stamped out at some point. But to be fair, there are nominal laws against this stuff in China, but that's a problem too - a lot of this IP violation can't happen if but for bribing government.

I await AltinD's context-laden comments on this subject. He is apparently in possession of experience and knowledge that runs counter to this. AltinD? You have the floor.

[AltinD]

As I already said, you Americans were doing the same in the 19th century

[GoCougs]

As I already said, you Americans were doing the same in the 19th century

In other words, you don't have a goddamned bit of experience or knowledge, and this "neoconservative supremacist" does.

[AltinD]

I have the knowledge that all those technologically developed and innovative countries have done the same when they were in the same stage of development as China is now, being Germany, USA, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and now China.

Historically speaking, it is nothing out of ordinary .... and certainly not a reason to brag about cultural and ethical supremacy (which you Americans do it constantly toward others unfortunately, being China, Middle East, Russia or whatever country you consider adversary) 

[Soup DeVille]

As I already said, you Americans were doing the same in the 19th century

No, we weren't: at least not to this extent. The industrial revolution happened here as much as in England/Scotland, and many of the key innovations that led to mass production in the first place were invented right here. The basic fact is that we had very little to copy from in the mid 1800s.

The Japanese were though, and as they've become a top notch innovator in their own right, that's perhaps the better example to look to for China's future.

[GoCougs]

I have the knowledge that all those technologically developed and innovative countries have done the same when they were in the same stage of development as China is now, being Germany, USA, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and now China.

Historically speaking, it is nothing out of ordinary .... and certainly not a reason to brag about cultural and ethical supremacy (which you Americans do it constantly toward others unfortunately, being China, Middle East, Russia or whatever country you consider adversary) 

You're trying too hard - I said nothing about "supremacy." I'm speaking only to Chinese cultural bent for the problem, which is HUGELY out of the ordinary.

[AutobahnSHO]

My brother's early 90s Subaru didn't pass Utah safety inspection. My other brother lives an hour and a half away- sold it for $800, in Wyoming. No safety inspection, land of cheap Utah cars..

[SJ_GTI]

Why does AltinD hate America? 

[AltinD]

Why does AltinD hate America? 

Because I'm a hater and Antiamericanist ..... plus, haters gonna hate 

[GoCougs]

Because I'm a hater and Antiamericanist ..... plus, haters gonna hate 

No, you were ignorant on the topic and got called out, and could do nothing but call names thereafter. You will do better next time.

[Morris Minor]

I have a childhood memory of my Dad driving my brother & I through Germany en route to Italy in a Rover 3 Litre (P5). He was determined to get up to 100, which he did, hunched over the wheel: white knuckles & a duty free Lucky Strike hanging off his lower lip.

When we got home, the car failed its MoT safety inspection - worn out steering linkages.

[AutobahnSHO]

eek