Jalopnik Slams the MKIV Golf

[AltinD]

MkIII was universally considered the worst Golf/Jetta generation ever, I agree.  But I feel that the MkIV gets so much stick because it was so popular. 

The MkIV gets the stick because the GTI version of it was totally unremarkable, but as a Golf, it was a fantastic car. BTW, did you got the MkIV Golf V6 4Motion 6sp M/T model in USA?

[2o6]

The MkIV gets the stick because the GTI version of it was totally unremarkable, but as a Golf, it was a fantastic car. BTW, did you got the MkIV Golf V6 4Motion 6sp M/T model in USA?

No, but I heard Canada did.

[Char]

Yeah, an early 2000s Accord Coupe that might have even got a V6

The Accord and Civic were the standard for cars of that generation. Better powertains, better chassis, better relaiblity (if we aren't talking about the 5 speed A/T) The VW Golf/Jetta were unremarkable shit - terrible powertrains, terrible handling, terrible quality control - they offered nothing over their Japanese rivals. It's insane that you're trying to defend one of VW's worst mistakes (and VW makes a LOT of mistakes) It's not a good car - none of them are.

[AltinD]

The Accord and Civic were the standard for cars of that generation. Better powertains, better chassis, better relaiblity (if we aren't talking about the 5 speed A/T) The VW Golf/Jetta were unremarkable shit - terrible powertrains, terrible handling, terrible quality control - they offered nothing over their Japanese rivals. It's insane that you're trying to defend one of VW's worst mistakes (and VW makes a LOT of mistakes) It's not a good car - none of them are.

Yeah yeah yeah ..... a car is fun to drive based on the emotional connection and response. If you have to define fun by numbers (being 0-60, G-force or dyno ones) than you hardly know what fun and pleasure is.

I don't know what LatAm build crap you were getting there (certainly downgraded to fit your idea of a price, as it still happens), but the 115HP 2.sl0w engine on mmy previous car, was pulling this uber-refined cabin from 2002 to 2008:

[AltinD]

PS: I drove a 2008 Civic for some time (a couple of weeks). The car was new (4 - 5,000 km). What a total crap: very harsh ride, very week A/C and no power or brakes. The Corolla of the same period might have been duller, but it was tons more comfortable to drive at least. Fun, or anything that may come close? Forget it ... on both!

[Char]

And I'm not stuck in a crappy car with a crappy engine.

[AltinD]

1. The pictures I posted were of my former car, not some some stock pictures from internet

2.  The B5.5 definitely was NOT a crappy car, it was more sophisticated and civilized and with more qualitative interiors in 2002, than the fake "wood", crappy hard plastics and the lame average leather on what you posted.

3.  Stuck? .... My ride is my signature (once again real photos and stats)

4.  Post pictures of the actual minivan of yours. 

[Char]

1. The pictures I posted were of my former car, not some some stock pictures from internet

2.  The B5.5 definitely was NOT a crappy car, it was more sophisticated and civilized and with more qualitative interiors in 2002, than the fake "wood", crappy hard plastics and the lame average leather on what you posted.

3.  Stuck? .... My ride is my signature (once again real photos and stats)

4.  Post pictures of the actual minivan of yours. 

I don't own a Accord, I assure you - my car isn't as boring. As a result, I can only post photos of what I see - and the Accord looks better than the VW, especially considering I can get all the wood peices in Aluminum.
So sophisticated that it was using a SOHC 8valve motor with 110 wheezing horsepower. Right. Again, I find the Accord interior to look just as good and not as tacky with the wood sparsly and surpratically sprinkled in the interior.
And one day, I may post pictures of the "Van"...maybe.

[AltinD]

I don't own a Accord, I assure you - my car isn't as boring. As a result, I can only post photos of what I see - and the Accord looks better than the VW, especially considering I can get all the wood peices in Aluminum.
So sophisticated that it was using a SOHC 8valve motor with 110 wheezing horsepower. Right. Again, I find the Accord interior to look just as good and not as tacky with the wood sparsly and surpratically sprinkled in the interior.
And one day, I may post pictures of the "Van"...maybe.

What you posted is some marketing picture of a 2014 or 2015 model. What I posted are pictures of a REAL car I owned that was build in 2001. 

That motor was 115 HP not 110 as you keep claiming, it wasn't offered in the US sold Passats of the era (your B5.5 only came with the 1.8T and the 2.8 V6, and later the 4.0 W8 as well), while in Europe the car came equipped with a dozen different engines: 1.6, 1.8T, 2.0 8v, 2.0 20v, 2.0 16v FSI (direct Injection), 2.5 V5, 2.8 V6, 4.0 W8, differnt variants of the 1.9 TDI (diesel), a 2.0 TDI and a 2.5 V6 TDI. 4Motion was offered in many of those engine configurations.

While the 8v was slow, the car didn't feel slower than the Camrys and Accords of the same era with more power, actually from my experience it was more engaging, better steering and throttle response, not to mention more solid and stable while driving (which is logically to be expected from cars engineered to drive on unlimited speed autobahns, as opposed to cars that had to be restricted to 108 MPH "because" of the tire ratings. 

Yeah, please DO post pics of the "not boring car" of yours 

[CALL_911]

Dude that Accord is a 2003 MY

[CALL_911]

As much as I like the B5.5, I refuse to believe it felt as quick as the Camries and Accords with way more power

[SJ_GTI]

As much as I like the B5.5, I refuse to believe it felt as quick as the Camries and Accords with way more power

Yeah there was no way the 2.0 was fast, but its not like the 1.8T at the time was the top level engine. I am pretty sure the Passat and Jetta were both available with a VR6. Many people buying the Passat 1.8T were comparing that engine to the 4-cylinder versions of the Camry/Accord. The Jetta and Golf had the 2.0 as the main engine, but its not like the Civic and Corolla at that time had great engines either. A quick check shows the 2001 civic had a 115 HP 1.7L engine and the Corolla had a 125 HP 1.8L engine. A 2001 Passat's base engine was 1.8T with 150 HP. A 2001 Accord had a 135 HP 2.3L engine. A 2001 Camry had a 136 HP 2.2L engine.

[12,000 RPM]

Why would Char let facts get in the way of his crusade?

[AltinD]

As much as I like the B5.5, I refuse to believe it felt as quick as the Camries and Accords with way more power

Felt ... different from checking the stopwatch

[AltinD]

Somewhere in 2003 or 2004, the power of the 1.8T on the North American Passat was bumped up to 180 HP. The 2.8 VR6 on both Passat and Jetta of that generations produced 193 HP

[Char]

Somewhere in 2003 or 2004, the power of the 1.8T on the North American Passat was bumped up to 180 HP. The 2.8 VR6 on both Passat and Jetta of that generations produced 193 HP

And the Accord was making 240hp around that same time, while the fanastic K24 found it's way in the base Accord - even with 160hp - it's a better engine in every regard in comparison to the 1.8trash and the cars that it was shoved into.

[Char]

http://www.truedelta.com/Honda-Accord/reliability-108/vs-Passat-282

[12,000 RPM]

[CJ]

My mom has 15,000 miles on her Jetta.  Nothing exciting to report, aside from an average lifetime MPG of 38. 

[12,000 RPM]

Yah, wifey's Rabbit has done about the same.... other than the fan, and shitty gas mileage (Im guessing ~25 combined), nothing to report. Wouldn't mind wifey getting a JSW TDI and me getting a Golf TDI- on the condition that I could keep + mod the Z and keep my bike. Actually not a bad idea at all....

[CJ]

Oh, the rear wiper judders really bad when it's raining heavily and the rear windshield is clean.  That's something.

[68_427]

Oh, the rear wiper judders really bad when it's raining heavily and the rear windshield is clean.  That's something.

Junk

[CALL_911]

Felt ... different from checking the stopwatch

Who cares about "felt"

[AltinD]

Who cares about "felt"

The daily driver?

[Madman]

Oh, the rear wiper judders really bad when it's raining heavily and the rear windshield is clean.  That's something.

And, based on that, Consumer Distorts will refuse to recommend it.  After all, it is clearly a major design flaw that will inevitably lead to the certain death of anyone who dares go anywhere near this car.  Oh, the humanity!!!!

[Char]

Feel free to post the rest of the Jetta models and the Passat.

[Char]

Waiting.

[68_427]

Lol Char is like the crazed GF standing with her hip locked to one side while you're on the couch trying to explain why you're covered in glitter.

[AutobahnSHO]

Lol Char is like the crazed GF standing with her hip locked to one side while you're on the couch trying to explain why you're covered in glitter.

so random      

[12,000 RPM]

Lol Char is like the crazed GF standing with her hip locked to one side while you're on the couch trying to explain why you're covered in glitter.

Naw, more like the looney tune on the standing room A train at 8 in the morning extolling the consequences of denying Jesus as your lord n savior

Hey Char can't post images from here but CR recommended the Jetta/Passat TDI, and the rest of the models range from average to better than average overall. So yea, a far cry from "complete crap" and where they were in the MKIII/MKIV days. Jetta Hybrid is #4 in its class of 18; Jetta TDI is #6, Jetta 1.8T is like #11. For context the Hybrid/TDI are ahead of the Mazda3, Corolla, Civic and Focus. The regular Jetta is ahead of the Sentra, Lancer and most of the Darts and Cruzes. The Passat isn't as competitive, but the TDI is still recommended, and the regular Passat is ahead of everything but the Camry/Accord/Legacy 3.6R. Tiguan is #7 out of like 20 small SUVs, with a recommendation and above average reliability- again only beaten by Honda/Toyota/Subaru and Ford.

Here... not sure you can access this, but here's the links to the data.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/small-cars/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/sedans/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/suvs/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm

At worst, VW is average.... but a lot of its cars are ranked higher than segment offerings from Nissan, Mazda, Ford, etc. Hell some of its cars rank towards the top of their respective classes (Jetta, Tiguan). So yea, VW was shite 10-15 yrs ago, but that was 10-15 yrs ago. CR, the enthusiast auto press, owners, all like a lot of what VW has to offer, and there's data to back up that they've improved a ton.... so what exactly is your problem?